2007 Baseball Season is about to start--talk about anything you want

[faldor]

Did anyone notice that the Red Sox won the World Series earlier this week?  All that I've been reading about is gAy-Rod, Girardi, Torre.  Too much Yankee talk for my liking.  I've been there before though folks, back when the Sox used to make their annual early exit, it was always time to start looking towards NEXT year.  Now the shoe is on the other foot.  Better luck next year.  I take that back, I hope the Yanks finish behind the D-Rays.  The Sox have some decisions to make this offseason (Lowell, Schilling, will Wakefield come back?, who can they get for Coco Crisp?).  But I'm gonna sit back and enjoy their 2nd championship in 4 years for now.

[tim_m]

Did anyone notice that the Red Sox won the World Series earlier this week?  All that I've been reading about is gAy-Rod, Girardi, Torre.  Too much Yankee talk for my liking.  I've been there before though folks, back when the Sox used to make their annual early exit, it was always time to start looking towards NEXT year.  Now the shoe is on the other foot.  Better luck next year.  I take that back, I hope the Yanks finish behind the D-Rays.  The Sox have some decisions to make this offseason (Lowell, Schilling, will Wakefield come back?, who can they get for Coco Crisp?).  But I'm gonna sit back and enjoy their 2nd championship in 4 years for now.

Now lets be realistic even with the yankees in transition thats not going to happen 

[faldor]

Did anyone notice that the Red Sox won the World Series earlier this week?? All that I've been reading about is gAy-Rod, Girardi, Torre.? Too much Yankee talk for my liking.? I've been there before though folks, back when the Sox used to make their annual early exit, it was always time to start looking towards NEXT year.? Now the shoe is on the other foot.? Better luck next year.? I take that back, I hope the Yanks finish behind the D-Rays.? The Sox have some decisions to make this offseason (Lowell, Schilling, will Wakefield come back?, who can they get for Coco Crisp?).? But I'm gonna sit back and enjoy their 2nd championship in 4 years for now.

Now lets be realistic even with the yankees in transition thats not going to happen?

Yeah you're right, those D-Rays are pathetic.  Every year it's the same story.  They've got a couple good young pitchers, a couple good young hitters, things are looking up.  Only, nothing ever changes, they finish 30 games out every year.

[freedom78]

Did anyone notice that the Red Sox won the World Series earlier this week?  All that I've been reading about is gAy-Rod, Girardi, Torre.  Too much Yankee talk for my liking.  I've been there before though folks, back when the Sox used to make their annual early exit, it was always time to start looking towards NEXT year.  Now the shoe is on the other foot.  Better luck next year.  I take that back, I hope the Yanks finish behind the D-Rays.  The Sox have some decisions to make this offseason (Lowell, Schilling, will Wakefield come back?, who can they get for Coco Crisp?).  But I'm gonna sit back and enjoy their 2nd championship in 4 years for now.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...didn't you recently call me classless for calling Belichick names? 

Anyway, I also hope they finish behind the D-Rays, but I must admit that I hope that for Boston, as well.  What can I say?  If it's not my team, I like the underdog.

But you can't expect to win it all every year, and they're going to need to start replacing their old pitching (Wakefield/Schilling) with young pitching...and without blowing more hundreds of millions on overpriced Japanese talent. 

I do think they need to do what they can to keep Lowell.  He's a great player.

[faldor]

Did anyone notice that the Red Sox won the World Series earlier this week?? All that I've been reading about is gAy-Rod, Girardi, Torre.? Too much Yankee talk for my liking.? I've been there before though folks, back when the Sox used to make their annual early exit, it was always time to start looking towards NEXT year.? Now the shoe is on the other foot.? Better luck next year.? I take that back, I hope the Yanks finish behind the D-Rays.? The Sox have some decisions to make this offseason (Lowell, Schilling, will Wakefield come back?, who can they get for Coco Crisp?).? But I'm gonna sit back and enjoy their 2nd championship in 4 years for now.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...didn't you recently call me classless for calling Belichick names??

Anyway, I also hope they finish behind the D-Rays, but I must admit that I hope that for Boston, as well.? What can I say?? If it's not my team, I like the underdog.

But you can't expect to win it all every year, and they're going to need to start replacing their old pitching (Wakefield/Schilling) with young pitching...and without blowing more hundreds of millions on overpriced Japanese talent.?

I do think they need to do what they can to keep Lowell.? He's a great player.

I said I thought it was classless to call Belichick "a cunt of a man", but I never claimed that I wasn't classless.  But only when it comes to gAy-Rod.  I can tolerate the rest of the Yankees, if they were on other teams I may even like them.  It'll be interesting to see what they do with Lowell/Schill, and if Wake is healthy enough to return.  They do have Lester and Clay Buchholz to replace them, but you're going with youth over experience there which doesn't always work.  I think Schill proved he can still pitch.  He'd probably gain about 5 wins or so by switching over to the NL, I kind of doubt he'll be back.  I'd love for him to stay, couldn't have asked for any more from him, but the Sox front office has proved they're wary of signing guys towards the end of the line (Trot Nixon, Pedro, J. Damon).  And word is they don't want to give Lowell more than a 2 year deal and I'm sure someone out there will give him 4 years, I think he would take that unless the Sox change their stance.

[tim_m]

Did anyone notice that the Red Sox won the World Series earlier this week?  All that I've been reading about is gAy-Rod, Girardi, Torre.  Too much Yankee talk for my liking.  I've been there before though folks, back when the Sox used to make their annual early exit, it was always time to start looking towards NEXT year.  Now the shoe is on the other foot.  Better luck next year.  I take that back, I hope the Yanks finish behind the D-Rays.  The Sox have some decisions to make this offseason (Lowell, Schilling, will Wakefield come back?, who can they get for Coco Crisp?).  But I'm gonna sit back and enjoy their 2nd championship in 4 years for now.

Now lets be realistic even with the yankees in transition thats not going to happen 

Yeah you're right, those D-Rays are pathetic.  Every year it's the same story.  They've got a couple good young pitchers, a couple good young hitters, things are looking up.  Only, nothing ever changes, they finish 30 games out every year.

Yeah i don't know why they can't do anything positive. They really do have some good young talent there.

[tim_m]

Did anyone notice that the Red Sox won the World Series earlier this week?  All that I've been reading about is gAy-Rod, Girardi, Torre.  Too much Yankee talk for my liking.  I've been there before though folks, back when the Sox used to make their annual early exit, it was always time to start looking towards NEXT year.  Now the shoe is on the other foot.  Better luck next year.  I take that back, I hope the Yanks finish behind the D-Rays.  The Sox have some decisions to make this offseason (Lowell, Schilling, will Wakefield come back?, who can they get for Coco Crisp?).  But I'm gonna sit back and enjoy their 2nd championship in 4 years for now.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...didn't you recently call me classless for calling Belichick names? 

Anyway, I also hope they finish behind the D-Rays, but I must admit that I hope that for Boston, as well.  What can I say?  If it's not my team, I like the underdog.

But you can't expect to win it all every year, and they're going to need to start replacing their old pitching (Wakefield/Schilling) with young pitching...and without blowing more hundreds of millions on overpriced Japanese talent. 

I do think they need to do what they can to keep Lowell.  He's a great player.

If they let Lowell leave they are absolutely INSANE

[tim_m]

Did anyone notice that the Red Sox won the World Series earlier this week?  All that I've been reading about is gAy-Rod, Girardi, Torre.  Too much Yankee talk for my liking.  I've been there before though folks, back when the Sox used to make their annual early exit, it was always time to start looking towards NEXT year.  Now the shoe is on the other foot.  Better luck next year.  I take that back, I hope the Yanks finish behind the D-Rays.  The Sox have some decisions to make this offseason (Lowell, Schilling, will Wakefield come back?, who can they get for Coco Crisp?).  But I'm gonna sit back and enjoy their 2nd championship in 4 years for now.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...didn't you recently call me classless for calling Belichick names? 

Anyway, I also hope they finish behind the D-Rays, but I must admit that I hope that for Boston, as well.  What can I say?  If it's not my team, I like the underdog.

But you can't expect to win it all every year, and they're going to need to start replacing their old pitching (Wakefield/Schilling) with young pitching...and without blowing more hundreds of millions on overpriced Japanese talent. 

I do think they need to do what they can to keep Lowell.  He's a great player.

I said I thought it was classless to call Belichick "a cunt of a man", but I never claimed that I wasn't classless.  But only when it comes to gAy-Rod.  I can tolerate the rest of the Yankees, if they were on other teams I may even like them.  It'll be interesting to see what they do with Lowell/Schill, and if Wake is healthy enough to return.  They do have Lester and Clay Buchholz to replace them, but you're going with youth over experience there which doesn't always work.  I think Schill proved he can still pitch.  He'd probably gain about 5 wins or so by switching over to the NL, I kind of doubt he'll be back.  I'd love for him to stay, couldn't have asked for any more from him, but the Sox front office has proved they're wary of signing guys towards the end of the line (Trot Nixon, Pedro, J. Damon).  And word is they don't want to give Lowell more than a 2 year deal and I'm sure someone out there will give him 4 years, I think he would take that unless the Sox change their stance.

Why do they only want to invest 2 years in Lowell? He isn't that old is he?

[faldor]

I believe Lowell is 34, he had a breakout year this year.  He had some good years in the past, but none were close to this season.  I guess they feel he could be an asset for 2 more years till he's 36, but they're not so sure he'd be a good buy at 12 mil a year at age 38.  That's just a guess.

[tim_m]

Yeah could be a bit of a risk for more then 2yrs then.  I didn't realize he was already 34. He could surprise though. Just look at the year Posada had for the yankees at 36. I wonder if they have someone waiting in the wings if they are only willing to commit for 2 years.

[faldor]

That's the problem, there isn't anyone that I know of in the minors anywhere ready to replace Lowell at 3B and the FA market is SO think except for A-Rod of course.  Theo made a run at A-Rod before so that's not out of the realm of possibilities.  Maybe that's why they agreed to shell out so much money for Drew last year (another Boras client).  Of course they could always work something out in a trade.  Another option would be moving Youkilis back to his natural position at 3B, BUT he developed himself into a gold glove caliber 1B this year so I'm not sure they'd be willing to do that.  Then of course they'd have to find another 1B.  I'm sure they have some ideas in place.

[tim_m]

That's the problem, there isn't anyone that I know of in the minors anywhere ready to replace Lowell at 3B and the FA market is SO think except for A-Rod of course.  Theo made a run at A-Rod before so that's not out of the realm of possibilities.  Maybe that's why they agreed to shell out so much money for Drew last year (another Boras client).  Of course they could always work something out in a trade.  Another option would be moving Youkilis back to his natural position at 3B, BUT he developed himself into a gold glove caliber 1B this year so I'm not sure they'd be willing to do that.  Then of course they'd have to find another 1B.  I'm sure they have some ideas in place.

I would think there aren't many sox fans gung-ho on a-rod after how he upstaged your victory and pretty much baseball. I admit i supported and liked the guy up until that despicable act during game 4.

[pilferk]

Did anyone notice that the Red Sox won the World Series earlier this week?  All that I've been reading about is gAy-Rod, Girardi, Torre.  Too much Yankee talk for my liking.  I've been there before though folks, back when the Sox used to make their annual early exit, it was always time to start looking towards NEXT year.  Now the shoe is on the other foot.  Better luck next year.  I take that back, I hope the Yanks finish behind the D-Rays.  The Sox have some decisions to make this offseason (Lowell, Schilling, will Wakefield come back?, who can they get for Coco Crisp?).  But I'm gonna sit back and enjoy their 2nd championship in 4 years for now.

Now lets be realistic even with the yankees in transition thats not going to happen 

Yeah you're right, those D-Rays are pathetic.  Every year it's the same story.  They've got a couple good young pitchers, a couple good young hitters, things are looking up.  Only, nothing ever changes, they finish 30 games out every year.

That's what happens when you get an owner who's more interested in pocketing their share of the revenue sharing than they are in fielding a competitive team.

They've had prospects...the minute they have to PAY those prospects....they let them walk away.  The ownership argues it's hard to pay players when your stadium is empty.  I say it's hard to fill a stadium when you refuse to field a competitive team.  And the ownership knows that...their "excuse" is a cop out used by MANY teams in the league who are getting a good chunk of change through revenue sharing and luxury tax payouts.

[pilferk]

I said I thought it was classless to call Belichick "a cunt of a man", but I never claimed that I wasn't classless.  But only when it comes to gAy-Rod.  I can tolerate the rest of the Yankees, if they were on other teams I may even like them.  It'll be interesting to see what they do with Lowell/Schill, and if Wake is healthy enough to return.  They do have Lester and Clay Buchholz to replace them, but you're going with youth over experience there which doesn't always work.  I think Schill proved he can still pitch.  He'd probably gain about 5 wins or so by switching over to the NL, I kind of doubt he'll be back.  I'd love for him to stay, couldn't have asked for any more from him, but the Sox front office has proved they're wary of signing guys towards the end of the line (Trot Nixon, Pedro, J. Damon).  And word is they don't want to give Lowell more than a 2 year deal and I'm sure someone out there will give him 4 years, I think he would take that unless the Sox change their stance.

Yanks would give him 4 years in a heartbeat.  Wade Boggs the 2nd.

But I think, ultimately, Lowell sealed his fate by winning the WS MVP.  I can't IMAGINE the Sox would let him go....if they do, it would be Stupid, with a capital S.  I think Red Sox Nation might rise up, as a whole, and riot.

If the Sox pin their hopes of another WS championship on Lester and Buchholz....they're nuts.  They're certainly competent pitchers.  And they may, in time, become much more.  But you put them any higher than 4 or 5 in your rotation right now and you're gonna have issues.  They need ONE more guy on the front half....someone to bridge between Beckett and Dice K....and I can't think of anyone better suited than Schilling that's on the market right now.  Whether the Sox think so or not, I don't know.  I think Wakefield is done in Boston...and possibly done, period.

[sandman]

Did anyone notice that the Red Sox won the World Series earlier this week??

yes. not only did they win, but with the pieces they have in place, this team may be a dynasty (with or without schilling and lowell). they have a great mix of solid young players with a ton of potential, along with stud veterans.

it seems like Schilling is gone, but there's a chance lowell will stay. i can understand the red sox approach to this....they faced a similar dilemma with damon two years ago. and letting him walk turned out to be the correct decision.   

[pilferk]

....they faced a similar dilemma with damon two years ago. and letting him walk turned out to be the correct decision.   

At least statistically speaking....that doesn't appear to be true.  Stats look close, though I think ultimately JD wins by a hair (if you'll excuse the pun).

In 2007, Crisp hit .268 with 6 HR, 60 RBI, and a .330 OBP.

In the postseason, Crisp hit .182, with 0 HR, 2 RBI, and .206 OBP

In 2006 Crisp hit .264, with 8 HR, 36 RBI, and .317 OBP.

Crisp had 2 good years with Cleveland ('04 and '05) but for the rest of his career, he hits right around .265 with single digits in HR's.

Lest you think he's a defensive upgrade, Crisp had 3 assists in '06, and 7 (a career high, FYI..the 3 is more typical) in '07.  His fielding % is .996 in '06 (zone rating was .837) and .998 (zone rating of .911) in '07.

Compare to Damon's numbers:

2006: .285 BA, 24 HR, 80 RBI, and a .359 OBP
2007: .270 BA (playing hurt), 12 HR, 63RBI and .351 OBP
2007 Post Season: .285 BA, 2 HR, 5 RBI, and a .317 OBP (in 5 games).

His defensive stats look like this:
2006: 3 Assists, .990 fielding %, .883 ZR
2007: 3 Assists, .1.000 fielding % (in center......991 if you count LF and RF), and a .888 ZR.

All that taking into account that Crisp plays 1/2 his games in a park that's pretty friendly to Center Fielders in general.

Now, you can argue that the stats are close enough that the Sox are getting better value from Crisp (who's making about 9 million less than Damon).  That might be true. 

But I'm not sure you can say it was the "right" decision for the sox...or that you can say they wouldn't have won this year if they'd kept Damon (I know, you're not saying that, but it seems implied).

[freedom78]

Did anyone notice that the Red Sox won the World Series earlier this week?  All that I've been reading about is gAy-Rod, Girardi, Torre.  Too much Yankee talk for my liking.  I've been there before though folks, back when the Sox used to make their annual early exit, it was always time to start looking towards NEXT year.  Now the shoe is on the other foot.  Better luck next year.  I take that back, I hope the Yanks finish behind the D-Rays.  The Sox have some decisions to make this offseason (Lowell, Schilling, will Wakefield come back?, who can they get for Coco Crisp?).  But I'm gonna sit back and enjoy their 2nd championship in 4 years for now.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...didn't you recently call me classless for calling Belichick names? 

Anyway, I also hope they finish behind the D-Rays, but I must admit that I hope that for Boston, as well.  What can I say?  If it's not my team, I like the underdog.

But you can't expect to win it all every year, and they're going to need to start replacing their old pitching (Wakefield/Schilling) with young pitching...and without blowing more hundreds of millions on overpriced Japanese talent. 

I do think they need to do what they can to keep Lowell.  He's a great player.

I said I thought it was classless to call Belichick "a cunt of a man", but I never claimed that I wasn't classless.  But only when it comes to gAy-Rod. 

Fair enough.    Consider Belichick my own class-act kryptonite, as well.

And word is they don't want to give Lowell more than a 2 year deal and I'm sure someone out there will give him 4 years, I think he would take that unless the Sox change their stance.

Two years for Lowell?  Seems like a mistake, if that's what they do...unless he takes it, that is, which I suppose could happen if he really wants to stay in Boston.

[sandman]

....they faced a similar dilemma with damon two years ago. and letting him walk turned out to be the correct decision.? ?

At least statistically speaking....that doesn't appear to be true.? Stats look close, though I think ultimately JD wins by a hair (if you'll excuse the pun).

In 2007, Crisp hit .268 with 6 HR, 60 RBI, and a .330 OBP.

In the postseason, Crisp hit .182, with 0 HR, 2 RBI, and .206 OBP

In 2006 Crisp hit .264, with 8 HR, 36 RBI, and .317 OBP.

Crisp had 2 good years with Cleveland ('04 and '05) but for the rest of his career, he hits right around .265 with single digits in HR's.

Lest you think he's a defensive upgrade, Crisp had 3 assists in '06, and 7 (a career high, FYI..the 3 is more typical) in '07.? His fielding % is .996 in '06 (zone rating was .837) and .998 (zone rating of .911) in '07.

Compare to Damon's numbers:

2006: .285 BA, 24 HR, 80 RBI, and a .359 OBP
2007: .270 BA (playing hurt), 12 HR, 63RBI and .351 OBP
2007 Post Season: .285 BA, 2 HR, 5 RBI, and a .317 OBP (in 5 games).

His defensive stats look like this:
2006: 3 Assists, .990 fielding %, .883 ZR
2007: 3 Assists, .1.000 fielding % (in center......991 if you count LF and RF), and a .888 ZR.

All that taking into account that Crisp plays 1/2 his games in a park that's pretty friendly to Center Fielders in general.

Now, you can argue that the stats are close enough that the Sox are getting better value from Crisp (who's making about 9 million less than Damon).? That might be true.?

But I'm not sure you can say it was the "right" decision for the sox...or that you can say they wouldn't have won this year if they'd kept Damon (I know, you're not saying that, but it seems implied).

what i'm saying is that they just won another title. and the decision on damon certainly had something to do with that.

firstly, i'm not a stats guy. secondly, you need to consider how the damon move effected other moves the organizations  made. 

the yankees (over)paid for damon. the red sox looked elsewhere. two years later, the red sox have another title.

[pilferk]

what i'm saying is that they just won another title. and the decision on damon certainly had something to do with that.

firstly, i'm not a stats guy. secondly, you need to consider how the damon move effected other moves the organizations  made. 

the yankees (over)paid for damon. the red sox looked elsewhere. two years later, the red sox have another title.

Yeah, but not based on what their center fielder did (or didn't) do.  I'm not sure how much effect the "no damon" move had on anything in the organization.  It certainly doesn't seem like much...that extra 10 million might have been "contributed" to Lowells  salary, I suppose.  But I don't think  the Sox would have passed on Lowell even if they'd signed Damon.  MHO, of course.  They probably would have passed on JD Drew.....

 But the basic pitching rotation of this year isn't all that much different than it was last year or, hell, even 2004 (as far as personell goes)...and pitching is the reason they won the AL East and, arguably, why they won the WS.  Dice K was the only real notable addition. Damon's departure had little, to nothing, to do with that.

You might not BE a stats guy, but you can't evaluate whether a move was "the right one" without considering them.  Again, you can argue "value", but not "productivity" on this one.

First up, I disagree the Yanks overpaid for Damon...when they signed him. Now?  He's not the same player...it remains to be seen if his legs will improve enough to MAKE him close to that player again...but the player they got was worth the contract they signed.  And if the Yanks overpaid Damon...what the heck did the Sox do with JD Drew (who was, I think, pretty much what the Sox spent Damon's "money" on)?

I think it's a stretch...a REAL long one...to come to the conclusion that Johnny not being there made them better and had ANYTHING to do with why they won this year.  Hell, better than that, you could point to the fact they DIDN'T have Johnny as a good reason why they didn't make the playoffs last year.

You're drawing a "cause/effect" conclusion from thin air, IMHO.

[pilferk]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3091277

THAT is just insane.

He wanted....350 million over 8 years. That averages out to about 43.75 million per year.

And the sick part is, the terms of years 1,2,3 of the extension were pretty much already set...and he'd have been making about 27 million per year.

So what he really wanted was 53.8 million per year for the 5 years of the extension.

No player on EARTH is worth that...and good luck to Boras finding a team willing to pay even CLOSE to that kind of money for 8 to 10 years.

That HAD to be their way of basically saying "We're not interested in meeting with you so we'll make some absurd demand to put you off".  HAD to be.  Because if they really think they could get it, I think Boras needs to head to a padded room.