Senate passes non binding resolution denouncing Bush Iraq plan

[pilferk]

this is the most pointless resolution ever...it doesnt DO anything..all it does is EXPRESS how the Dems dont agree with it....further showing all of our enemies that we are a divided nation...and thus encouraging all of them....thank god dems dont run our country...we would be invaded and conquered within an hour...

Over 60% of the country disagrees.  Hell, almost 70% disagree with this "surge".

"Divided" is an oversimplification...based on the percentages and approval ratings we're actually quite united: United in disagreeing with our president.  WHICH, FYI, is a founding tenet of this country.  That is, the right to disagree with those running our government.  Read the Constitution.  It's all there, in black and white.

Thank god people who disagree with it are not running this country......(or maybe one is?).

The dems took one of the only options available to them.  As a conservative/republican, you don't like it.  Of course, when the Repubs issued meaningless sanctions against Clinton, I'm sure you were crowing from your roof.

I think you need to UNDERSTAND the process before you can criticize what those working within it are doing.

[The Dog]

The main thing this resolution is doing is allowing the dems to say "this is NOT our war - it's Bush's war".  When the surge fails as many think it will, Bush will be to blame, not congress.

in that regard, the symbolism of this resolution is very important.

[TAP]

The main thing this resolution is doing is allowing the dems to say "this is NOT our war - it's Bush's war". 

I think it's too little too late for that. Not that they really have an viable options, so I suppose distancing themselves from the current plan makes some kind of sense. But (and I hate to play devil's advocate) a lot of Dems voted for the war and until they come up with something better it's really partly their war too.

[TAP]

thank god dems dont run our country...we would be invaded and conquered within an hour...

You just redlined the hyperbole meter.

[Booker Floyd]

this is the most pointless resolution ever...it doesnt DO anything..all it does is EXPRESS how the Dems dont agree with it....further showing all of our enemies that we are a divided nation...and thus encouraging all of them....thank god dems dont run our country...we would be invaded and conquered within an hour...

The "Dems" have run our country, and currently run Congress, but I guess youre eager to break 2007Whats monopoly on thoughtless hyperbole.   

Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on the statements made by Republicans during the Kosovo conflict?

"Bombing a sovereign nation for ill-defined reasons with vague objectives undermines the American stature in the world. The international respect and trust for America has diminished every time we casually let the bombs fly."
-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?"
-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99

"You think Vietnam was bad? Vietnam is nothing next to Kosovo."
-Tony Snow, Fox News 3/24/99 

"American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy."
-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"No goal, no objective, not until we have those things and a compelling case is made, then I say, back out of it, because innocent people are going to die for nothing. That's why I'm against it."
-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/5/99

"President Clinton is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation's armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy."
-Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)

"The suspicion some people have about the president's motives in this attack [on Iraq] is itself a powerful argument for impeachment," Armey said in a statement. "After months of lies, the president has given millions of people around the world reason to doubt that he has sent Americans into battle for the right reasons." - Rep. Dick Armey

"I cannot support this military action in the Persian Gulf at this time," Lott said in a statement. "Both the timing and the policy are subject to question." - Senator Trent Lott

"If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy." - Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of presidential candidate George W. Bush

"I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning...I didn't think we had done enough in the diplomatic area." - Senator Trent Lott

"Well, I just think it's a bad idea. What's going to happen is they're going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years" - Joe Scarborough

"I'm on the Senate Intelligence Committee, so you can trust me and believe me when I say we're running out of cruise missles. I can't tell you exactly how many we have left, for security reasons, but we're almost out of cruise missles." - Senator Inhofe

"I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarifiedrules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our overextended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today" - Rep. Tom Delay

"I don't know that Milosevic will ever raise a white flag" - Senator Don Nickles

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." - Governor George W. Bush

"This is President Clinton's war, and when he falls flat on his face, that's his problem." - Senator Richard Lugar

"You can support the troops but not the president" - Rep. Tom Delay 

"My job as majority leader is be supportive of our troops, try to have input as decisions are made and to look at those decisions after they're made ... not to march in lock step with everything the president decides to do." - Senator Trent Lott

For us to call this a victory and to commend the President of the United States as the Commander in Chief showing great leadership in Operation Allied Force is a farce" - Rep. Tom Delay

"These international war criminals were led by Gen. Wesley Clark ...who clicked his shiny heels for the commander-in-grief, Bill Clinton." - Michael Savage

[The Dog]

The main thing this resolution is doing is allowing the dems to say "this is NOT our war - it's Bush's war". 

I think it's too little too late for that. Not that they really have an viable options, so I suppose distancing themselves from the current plan makes some kind of sense. But (and I hate to play devil's advocate) a lot of Dems voted for the war and until they come up with something better it's really partly their war too.

oh jeez, how often do we have to go back to this convo......a lot of people were for the war, under the pretenses of false information/intelligence upon which it was sold to the american people and congress.

the climate at the time was also one of fear and did not allow for dissent.  if you weren't for the war you hated america, hated freedom, we couldn't eat french fries anymore, only freedom fries, and you didn't support the troops.  it was ridiculous.

now, knowing everything we know, SOME people STILL want to continue this mess of a war. 

this is bush and the neo cons war.  nobody elses.

[Booker Floyd]

Its Bush (and his packs) war for sure, but Democrats shoulder some responsibility for enabling it.  Twenty-two (and Lincoln Chaffee) had the good sense to vote against it, the rest should have followed.

[TAP]

The main thing this resolution is doing is allowing the dems to say "this is NOT our war - it's Bush's war". 

I think it's too little too late for that. Not that they really have an viable options, so I suppose distancing themselves from the current plan makes some kind of sense. But (and I hate to play devil's advocate) a lot of Dems voted for the war and until they come up with something better it's really partly their war too.

oh jeez, how often do we have to go back to this convo......

Many, many, many more times if Hillary is the Dems candidate (which she will probably be). There's nothing inherently wrong with populism, since they are elected "representatives", but this better just be a first step towards something meaningful....and it sounds like they're already bickering over semantics with three different senate proposals according to what I just read at cnn.com

[TAP]

http://americablog.blogspot.com/2007/01/its-even-better-than-kos-reports.html

    In an interview, Pelosi also said she was puzzled by what she considered the president's minimalist explanation for his confidence in the new surge of 21,500 U.S. troops that he has presented as the crux of a new "way forward" for U.S. forces in Iraq.

    "He's tried this two times ? it's failed twice," the California Democrat said. "I asked him at the White House, 'Mr. President, why do you think this time it's going to work?' And he said, 'Because I told them it had to.' "

    Asked if the president had elaborated, she added that he simply said, " 'I told them that they had to.' That was the end of it. That's the way it is."

Oh, it's better than that. When I was on the Hill on Tuesday, Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL) told us (on the record) the rest of the story. Apparently, Pelosi's final come-back to the president was the following:

    PELOSI: He's tried this two times ? it's failed twice. I asked him at the White House, 'Mr. President, why do you think this time it's going to work?'

    BUSH: Because I told them it had to.

    PELOSI: Why didn't you tell them that the other two times?

[pilferk]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16825899/

Bush's response.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

this is the most pointless resolution ever...it doesnt DO anything..all it does is EXPRESS how the Dems dont agree with it....further showing all of our enemies that we are a divided nation...and thus encouraging all of them....thank god dems dont run our country...we would be invaded and conquered within an hour...

yeah... that what usually happens ... people invade countries and all
just like last week when switzerland invaded russia
and last month when sri lanka attacked  peru !

so crazy!

very interesting words you use man:
ennemies
invaded
conquered
thank god

very interesting...

[pilferk]

WAT-EVER, you've now seen your first (well, maybe not the first) real live "hawk".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Hawk

[Bodhi]

this is the most pointless resolution ever...it doesnt DO anything..all it does is EXPRESS how the Dems dont agree with it....further showing all of our enemies that we are a divided nation...and thus encouraging all of them....thank god dems dont run our country...we would be invaded and conquered within an hour...

The "Dems" have run our country, and currently run Congress, but I guess youre eager to break 2007Whats monopoly on thoughtless hyperbole.? ?

Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on the statements made by Republicans during the Kosovo conflict?

"Bombing a sovereign nation for ill-defined reasons with vague objectives undermines the American stature in the world. The international respect and trust for America has diminished every time we casually let the bombs fly."
-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?"
-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99

"You think Vietnam was bad? Vietnam is nothing next to Kosovo."
-Tony Snow, Fox News 3/24/99?

"American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy."
-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"No goal, no objective, not until we have those things and a compelling case is made, then I say, back out of it, because innocent people are going to die for nothing. That's why I'm against it."
-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/5/99

"President Clinton is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation's armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy."
-Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)

"The suspicion some people have about the president's motives in this attack [on Iraq] is itself a powerful argument for impeachment," Armey said in a statement. "After months of lies, the president has given millions of people around the world reason to doubt that he has sent Americans into battle for the right reasons." - Rep. Dick Armey

"I cannot support this military action in the Persian Gulf at this time," Lott said in a statement. "Both the timing and the policy are subject to question." - Senator Trent Lott

"If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy." - Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of presidential candidate George W. Bush

"I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning...I didn't think we had done enough in the diplomatic area." - Senator Trent Lott

"Well, I just think it's a bad idea. What's going to happen is they're going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years" - Joe Scarborough

"I'm on the Senate Intelligence Committee, so you can trust me and believe me when I say we're running out of cruise missles. I can't tell you exactly how many we have left, for security reasons, but we're almost out of cruise missles." - Senator Inhofe

"I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarifiedrules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our overextended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today" - Rep. Tom Delay

"I don't know that Milosevic will ever raise a white flag" - Senator Don Nickles

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." - Governor George W. Bush

"This is President Clinton's war, and when he falls flat on his face, that's his problem." - Senator Richard Lugar

"You can support the troops but not the president" - Rep. Tom Delay?

"My job as majority leader is be supportive of our troops, try to have input as decisions are made and to look at those decisions after they're made ... not to march in lock step with everything the president decides to do." - Senator Trent Lott

For us to call this a victory and to commend the President of the United States as the Commander in Chief showing great leadership in Operation Allied Force is a farce" - Rep. Tom Delay

"These international war criminals were led by Gen. Wesley Clark ...who clicked his shiny heels for the commander-in-grief, Bill Clinton." - Michael Savage

Who said I was a republican?? I just see Nancy Pelosi for what she is...fucking useless....and if you dont think our enemies love seeing our country divded you are beyond clueless.you know damn well that no one is going to stop this war...dems will NEVER cut off funding..so all of this is a big facade to please the left..... answer this for me...do you honestly think there is a difference between republicans and democrats?  I remember I used to think like you..I would pull up all of these quotes that dems or republicans would say and actually try to draw some meaning from them...but there is none....I am an independent and I am also completely positive I can kick your ass in any debate unless of course I agree with you on the topic.. You are clearly loyal to one party...therefore you have no chance....because either party is always wrong at least half the time....usually more...looks like you have a decent amount of posts on here...so i am sure you know how to use the private messages....so send some over....I would love to hear from ya....oh by the way Michael Savage is not a republican....he hates republicans more than Ted Kennedy

[Bodhi]

this is the most pointless resolution ever...it doesnt DO anything..all it does is EXPRESS how the Dems dont agree with it....further showing all of our enemies that we are a divided nation...and thus encouraging all of them....thank god dems dont run our country...we would be invaded and conquered within an hour...

Over 60% of the country disagrees.? Hell, almost 70% disagree with this "surge".

"Divided" is an oversimplification...based on the percentages and approval ratings we're actually quite united: United in disagreeing with our president.? WHICH, FYI, is a founding tenet of this country.? That is, the right to disagree with those running our government.? Read the Constitution.? It's all there, in black and white.

Thank god people who disagree with it are not running this country......(or maybe one is?).

The dems took one of the only options available to them.? As a conservative/republican, you don't like it.? Of course, when the Repubs issued meaningless sanctions against Clinton, I'm sure you were crowing from your roof.

I think you need to UNDERSTAND the process before you can criticize what those working within it are doing.

and i thnk you need to UNDERSTAND that this "resolution" is bullshit...Dems wil NEVER cut off funding for this war...Bush will go ahead with the troop surge and continue to do whatever he wants because the dems cant stop him....This whol resolution thing is just the dems trying to score political points with the left...thats it....it is not going to end the Iraq war any sooner...and for the hundredth time I AM NOT A REPUBLICAN...i am just really good at spotting bullshit...like this resolution...just because I hate democrats you automatically assume i am a republican...you know there are more than 2 options out there....

[Booker Floyd]

Who said I was a republican??

Good question.  I didnt.  However, by singling out Democrats supposed diviseness, youre implicitly absolving the Republicans of the same thing.  If youre truly an independent with no party loyalties, you surely wouldnt single out Democrats for something of which Republicans are guilty. 

I just see Nancy Pelosi for what she is...fucking useless....and if you dont think our enemies love seeing our country divded you are beyond clueless.

So much for not letting the terrorists win, huh?  So public speech/debate should be incumbent upon "the enemies" opinions - dissent should be quelched to appease terrorists.  Congress should be obsequious and unquestioning and let the executive branch do whatever it pleases.  If youre not a Republican, you sure think like one.

you know damn well that no one is going to stop this war...dems will NEVER cut off funding..so all of this is a big facade to please the left.....

Russ Feingold is holding hearings next week to explore the possibility, but youre right, the majority of the part will not follow; its simply not practicable.  However, thats not the only means of action.  By speaking out and offering alternative measures to end it, theyll continue to influence public opinion which will either expediate the wars end or give voters the opportunity to vote for it a year from now.

do you honestly think there is a difference between republicans and democrats?

Enough for you to contantly single out one over the other.

I remember I used to think like you..

Such wisdom!  Which brings us to...

I am also completely positive I can kick your ass in any debate

The mark of a great debator.   

so i am sure you know how to use the private messages....so send some over....I would love to hear from ya....

No, thank you. 

oh by the way Michael Savage is not a republican....he hates republicans more than Ted Kennedy

I didnt say he was a Republican.  But like yourself, hes alligned with them not only ideologically for the most part, but in his hatred for liberals. 

Also, a point I forgot to make is that the opposition to Bushs plans is substantially bipartisan.  I dont think theres one single Democrat in the Senate that supports it, while theres possibly two in the House (the two Georgia Democrats that came close to defeat this last election).  Conveniently, you chose to single out Democrats, but Chuck Hagel, Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins, Norm Coleman, Gordon Smith and John Warner have all voiced their opposition.

[GeraldFord]

this is the most pointless resolution ever...it doesnt DO anything..all it does is EXPRESS how the Dems dont agree with it....further showing all of our enemies that we are a divided nation...and thus encouraging all of them....thank god dems dont run our country...we would be invaded and conquered within an hour...

The "Dems" have run our country, and currently run Congress, but I guess youre eager to break 2007Whats monopoly on thoughtless hyperbole.? ?

Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on the statements made by Republicans during the Kosovo conflict?

"Bombing a sovereign nation for ill-defined reasons with vague objectives undermines the American stature in the world. The international respect and trust for America has diminished every time we casually let the bombs fly."
-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?"
-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99

"You think Vietnam was bad? Vietnam is nothing next to Kosovo."
-Tony Snow, Fox News 3/24/99?

"American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy."
-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"No goal, no objective, not until we have those things and a compelling case is made, then I say, back out of it, because innocent people are going to die for nothing. That's why I'm against it."
-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/5/99

"President Clinton is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation's armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy."
-Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)

"The suspicion some people have about the president's motives in this attack [on Iraq] is itself a powerful argument for impeachment," Armey said in a statement. "After months of lies, the president has given millions of people around the world reason to doubt that he has sent Americans into battle for the right reasons." - Rep. Dick Armey

"I cannot support this military action in the Persian Gulf at this time," Lott said in a statement. "Both the timing and the policy are subject to question." - Senator Trent Lott

"If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy." - Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of presidential candidate George W. Bush

"I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning...I didn't think we had done enough in the diplomatic area." - Senator Trent Lott

"Well, I just think it's a bad idea. What's going to happen is they're going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years" - Joe Scarborough

"I'm on the Senate Intelligence Committee, so you can trust me and believe me when I say we're running out of cruise missles. I can't tell you exactly how many we have left, for security reasons, but we're almost out of cruise missles." - Senator Inhofe

"I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarifiedrules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our overextended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today" - Rep. Tom Delay

"I don't know that Milosevic will ever raise a white flag" - Senator Don Nickles

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." - Governor George W. Bush

"This is President Clinton's war, and when he falls flat on his face, that's his problem." - Senator Richard Lugar

"You can support the troops but not the president" - Rep. Tom Delay?

"My job as majority leader is be supportive of our troops, try to have input as decisions are made and to look at those decisions after they're made ... not to march in lock step with everything the president decides to do." - Senator Trent Lott

For us to call this a victory and to commend the President of the United States as the Commander in Chief showing great leadership in Operation Allied Force is a farce" - Rep. Tom Delay

"These international war criminals were led by Gen. Wesley Clark ...who clicked his shiny heels for the commander-in-grief, Bill Clinton." - Michael Savage

WOW....Just WOW. If thousands of people weren't being killed, the hypocrisy and scumbaginess of the above people would be hilarious.

[Bodhi]

Who said I was a republican??

Good question.? I didnt.? However, by singling out Democrats supposed diviseness, youre implicitly absolving the Republicans of the same thing.? If youre truly an independent with no party loyalties, you surely wouldnt single out Democrats for something of which Republicans are guilty.?

I just see Nancy Pelosi for what she is...fucking useless....and if you dont think our enemies love seeing our country divded you are beyond clueless.

So much for not letting the terrorists win, huh?? So public speech/debate should be incumbent upon "the enemies" opinions - dissent should be quelched to appease terrorists.? Congress should be obsequious and unquestioning and let the executive branch do whatever it pleases.? If youre not a Republican, you sure think like one.

you know damn well that no one is going to stop this war...dems will NEVER cut off funding..so all of this is a big facade to please the left.....

Russ Feingold is holding hearings next week to explore the possibility, but youre right, the majority of the part will not follow; its simply not practicable.? However, thats not the only means of action.? By speaking out and offering alternative measures to end it, theyll continue to influence public opinion which will either expediate the wars end or give voters the opportunity to vote for it a year from now.

do you honestly think there is a difference between republicans and democrats?

Enough for you to contantly single out one over the other.

I remember I used to think like you..

Such wisdom!? Which brings us to...

I am also completely positive I can kick your ass in any debate

The mark of a great debator.? ?

so i am sure you know how to use the private messages....so send some over....I would love to hear from ya....

No, thank you.?

oh by the way Michael Savage is not a republican....he hates republicans more than Ted Kennedy

I didnt say he was a Republican.? But like yourself, hes alligned with them not only ideologically for the most part, but in his hatred for liberals.?

Also, a point I forgot to make is that the opposition to Bushs plans is substantially bipartisan.? I dont think theres one single Democrat in the Senate that supports it, while theres possibly two in the House (the two Georgia Democrats that came close to defeat this last election).? Conveniently, you chose to single out Democrats, but Chuck Hagel, Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins, Norm Coleman, Gordon Smith and John Warner have all voiced their opposition.

you didnt say I was a republican? You said at least twice in other threads...but that is neither here nor there...and by listing a bunch of quotes that you said were made by "republicans" and putting a Michael Savage quote in there..you are in fact calling him a republican.....since you already declined my offer for you to PM may about ANY topic...which doesnt surprise me, liberals hate being confronted on their views, if i can say anything about republicans at least they know where they stand and will defend it....But I would love to here an answer to this question...you keep on saying things about democrats having a different solution or vision on how to end the war...give me ONE..besides the common cut and run solution they have which will end in catastrophy....Listen I will be the first one to say that Bush fucked up th Iraq war...it is a mess, no doubt about it....however I want to hear ONE other option that the democrats have that will WIN the war over there....

[eddie_dean]

they don't need to have a plan because pointing fingers is currently working.  Revisionist history is working now as well too.  Pointing figers won't win the 2008 presidential election.  Although it's way too early to make any predicitions, my money is on Hillary for the Dems.

[Bodhi]

they don't need to have a plan because pointing fingers is currently working.? Revisionist history is working now as well too.? Pointing figers won't win the 2008 presidential election.? Although it's way too early to make any predicitions, my money is on Hillary for the Dems.

true pointing fingers is working wonders right now...for both sides.....but its not doing us any good

[Booker Floyd]

you didnt say I was a republican? You said at least twice in other threads...

Prove it.

you are in fact calling him a republican

No, Im not.  I explained why I put him there.

since you already declined my offer for you to PM may about ANY topic...which doesnt surprise me, liberals hate being confronted on their views

Youre welcome to believe that if it makes you feel better, but the truth is I simply have no interest in talking to you through PMs.

But speaking of being confronted, youve crept away from providing any evidence that Nancy Pelosi had plastic surgery, offering nothing more than your own desire for it to be true.  You avoided addressing the divisive Republican statements during Kosovo, instead [ironically] asserting your remarkable debating skills.  You make an issue of Obamas lack of experience and fail to explan how it differs from Lincolns similar experience.  Heres your opportunity to back up your opinions instead of weaseling out again.

besides the common cut and run solution they have which will end in catastrophy....Listen I will be the first one to say that Bush fucked up th Iraq war...it is a mess, no doubt about it....however I want to hear ONE other option that the democrats have that will WIN the war over there....

By creating that condition, youre not interested in hearing the alternative, youre interested in pretending youre right.    You apparently share the presidents simplistic notion of "victory."  Well see how that turns out.