Chinese Democracy Breakdown

[doooodickiebr]

we all have been through so much!

[russtcb]

I didn't realize you meant that something new had to be proven to have come from Axl.

What was the point of the whole breakdown then? To try to make Axl look bad?

Had to, should have.....he can do whatever he wants, but we still want it. That's kind of the point. A breakdown of what he's said may help people know what to expect. It's just the truth.

Like I said, when I read this originally I didn't know the whole thing was posted just to make Axl out to be an ass.

To me, if you think the album isn't coming anytime soon, then why didn't you just make a thread saying that?

[ronie]

Guys, why are you bothering so much about this whole thing, the man already told you - "if you're waiting for this album - don't, just live your lifes"...Besides, we all know this album will be just an average rock album, not a revolutionary one - like the appetite...let's face it, we already have probably the best 2 songs that will feature on the album - TWAT and Better...and to some extend - Madagascar...so...what can we say - decent songs, like VR's "Falling to pieces" for example...but nothing more...nothing that can be compared to any of the appetite songs, not even any of the Illusions songs...probably more like the spagetti stuff - absolute crap, and still we'll buy it cuz it's Axl...I know it sounds sad, but it's the truth, don't expect anything briliant from Axl anymore, he's done...Look at the shows they did in Europe last summer...I've seen most of these shows and it looked terrible, and then i put on my VCR the old stuff...like Ritz 88, or Rio 91, or Paris 92...as if I was watching a completly different band, the old stuff - awesom classic GnR!!! And this new thing...whatever they call it...Axl n Roses...it looks like somebody's nightmare...I mean look at these guys...Tommy Stinson, Bumblfoot?!?!? What is this, some kind of joke? The only one that could replace any of the old members was Buckethead...but he's gone..and I hope they will leave his solo on TWAT, cuz it's obvious that his guitar will be one of the very few good things on the album... And finally, look at Axl - this guy has nothing to do with the rebelious once man, one of the greatest frontmans of all times... This new Axl looks like a damn good businessman that knows wkat he's doing - money, a lot of money....and you?...so called fans...keep krying and dreaming of ChiDem...

[NicoRourke]

...

What the fuck are you doing here then ?

To compare Maddy, Twat or Better to VR's Fall To Pieces ? Don't get that excited.

If you think the band is a joke, then why did you went to see them so often last summer then ? Do you like to waste your money ?

[Orgasmatron]

Yup, ronie, you're a disgrace.. Get a life.

[misterID]

good thread polluxlm

I thought the 'agressive electronica with guitars' plan for the 2nd album was interesting. You think with the decrease in songs since then that the plan and songs for that album have been dropped? Especially since electronica is out of style now?

[polluxlm]

good thread polluxlm

I thought the 'agressive electronica with guitars' plan for the 2nd album was interesting. You think with the decrease in songs since then that the plan and songs for that album have been dropped? Especially since electronica is out of style now?

I believe they have moved away from some material to concentrate on what they think is their best work.

[russtcb]

...

What the fuck are you doing here then ?

To compare Maddy, Twat or Better to VR's Fall To Pieces ? Don't get that excited.

If you think the band is a joke, then why did you went to see them so often last summer then ? Do you like to waste your money ?

I'll never understand that either.

[wight gunner]

Has the band got chemistry for new stuff or is it just the old stuff, plus the new few tracks played live.? As far as I can tell no evidence is there for the "creative imput" into the production and writing of new material.

As much as I love the band just stating facts as I see them.? Dizzy, Robin, Tommy and Richard may have had significant imput but the rest I don't think so , nor will do if the silence from anyone but Axl? is anything to go by. Its kind of ironic that Sebastian Bach has said more about it that anybody other than Axl, not that I believe that Seb is more important to Axl then anbody else, more that he was(?) more Rock n Roll than anybody else on the last tour...Something that Axl relates to perhaps

In the same way as other bands who get rid of / don't retain the services of original members, in my view still have the right to play as that particular band.? Guns n Roses is no different, Axl is without doubt the major creative force behind the band, if anything more so these days.? The other members do need to have their own signature on this baby, the question is how much have stamped their mark....

[russtcb]

As far as I can tell no evidence is there for the "creative imput" into the production and writing of new material.

"That was a 'Robin song'. And I know that just PISSES some of you right off don't it?"

-Axl Rose directly after the first live performance of "Better".

[Crowebar]

And finally, look at Axl...

This new Axl looks like a damn good businessman that knows what he's doing..........

Axl's doing exactly what he's supposed to be doing, which is getting on stage and being the greatest frontman of all time, for all of us and also for himself.   

I kind of think he's pretty good at it too. 

[ppbebe]

As far as I can tell no evidence is there for the "creative imput" into the production and writing of new material.

"That was a 'Robin song'. And I know that just PISSES some of you right off don't it?"

-Axl Rose directly after the first live performance of "Better".

 
all for one and one for all.
Tommy said axl was trying to make the album democratically.(polluxlm I know your interest is axl but the interviews of other members would serve as references as well.)
We have to wait but judging from the handful of new songs and the band members words I'm very positive about that.

we all ......

Who you mean by you all?
speak for yourself. Stalker type fans are nightmare for any band.

[ronie]

My goodness, I already feel sorry for posting my opinion...you guys gonna eat me alive for that... look I'm sorry, I guess I exaggerated the whole thing a little... Axl is my favourite frontman of all times, I just said he's not as good as he used to be while in his prime 15 years ago...that's all...
Peace, long live Axl!

[acompleteunknown]

Okay, so I hate talking about hearsay, and I can't attest for how much of this is actually true but if it is...what I know of that went on in late 90s-early 00s may shed some light on what's been going on.

A friend of mine used to work for Geffen (and yes, don't most stories start with a "friend of mine?").  Back in the late 90s, they tried to put together a big metal tour with Korn, Limp Bizkit, Slipknot, (all the nu metal bands)...which eventually became the Family Values Tour.  Well, they wanted GNR to be the headliner.  In part, with doing the tour, they wanted a new album to go with it.  So "supposedly" Axl delivered some demos to the label to hear.  Unfortunately, they hated the demos.  My friend who heard a couple of them, said they sounded like a cross between NIN and UYI.  He thought they sounded fine...they basically sounded like unfinished demos.  But the guys at the label wanted AFD.  And when the music wasn't close to that...they freaked out.  Obviously, Axl had been making some progress because in 1999 we did hear a finished "Oh My God" with the new band members.

If there is any truth to this, it would make sense.  Basically, Axl probably decided to start over. 

In 2002, the tour probably sidelined the creative process that needed a few months of work.

In 2004, Buckethead leaves the band, which more than likely made Axl want to re-record his parts and maybe add some new songs that didn't have his input.

In 2006, another tour interrupts the finalizing of the album...

Also, in 2006, we heard the first of the leaks...so if anything, something has been done.

We're close kids...very close!

[tHeElEcTrIcSiNtAr]

He also talks about resolving issues around the use of BHs music,

Where does he do that?

March 30th 2004

I would also like to express my gratitude to those who chose to embrace Buckethead's role in Guns and support our new line up. We greatly appreciate Bucket's contributions and remain open to "discussions" as there are obviously several issues to resolve.

I always took that to mean he was open to talking to Bucket about getting back together. He's so vague, there's no way to tell what that means.

He talks about issues that comes up after his departure. Axl doesn't want him back at that point if you look at his characterisation of him. If the issues revolve around his contributions, and it's got nothing to do with rehiring him, then I conclude it must be the recorded music.

Actually according to Del in the article "we arent supposed to talk about," They were trying to get Buckethead back right up until the New York shows. Thats why Ron didnt have a lot of time to learn all the material. What was it, he had like 2 weeks rehearsal with the band before the shows?

[ppbebe]

Has it ever occurred to your mind that your characterization of axl might be totally wrong?

No, it was from the gnronline interview in 2002. I hardly think anything in there wasn't approved.

Well yeah, I can see the logic behind him not being a bigmouth But if you only speak once a year, wouldn't it be clever to not say too much about the thing you don't know you'll be able to deliver?

Woops. I should have known that.    there can't be video/or audio.
Still, same difference.
It's just illogical to pick at those comments and decide how he really is. see the bold bit in the quote at the bottom of this post.
Actually in the articles you could easily find many things he's consistent in and steady at.

The paragraph in question says although the album could be done any day, it wasn't likely to be released anytime soon then. no bs. Not really contradicting. Just the reasons weren't mentioned.

after "blah blah blah", put "but, unfortunately" followed by the explanations he's given in other articles  and then put "therefore," right before "if you're...." to supply the gap and then you won't see the said contradiction anymore.

It explains obstacles. After 16 years there's obviously been a few.

A few? No shit.  You read this when you posted right?

To say the making of this album has been an unbearably long and incomprehensible journey would be an understatement. Overcoming the endless and seemingly insane amount of obstacles faced by all involved, notwithstanding the emotional challenges endured by everyone -- the fans, the band, our road crew and business team -- has at many times seemed like a bad dream in which one wakes up only to find that they are still in the nightmare. Unfortunately, this time it has been played out for over a decade in real life.

The true, ongoing, behind-the-scenes triumphs and casualties are much more complicated than any negative speculation that the media or otherwise has managed to hit upon. For much of the time, various legal issues have arisen, demanding that the best way to deal with these things publicly, quite frankly, was to keep our mouths shut in an attempt to ensure the best outcome-- especially one that wouldn?t jeopardize the band or the album. It?s easy for people to point out how others have handled similar situations or how they would have dealt with these issues themselves if they encountered them in their own lives. But again, without full knowledge of the various dynamics and circumstances involved, these types of comments or commentary are just uninformed, disassociated, generally useless -- and often hindering --speculation.

and again, note the line in bold.

[polluxlm]

He also talks about resolving issues around the use of BHs music,

Where does he do that?

March 30th 2004

I would also like to express my gratitude to those who chose to embrace Buckethead's role in Guns and support our new line up. We greatly appreciate Bucket's contributions and remain open to "discussions" as there are obviously several issues to resolve.

I always took that to mean he was open to talking to Bucket about getting back together. He's so vague, there's no way to tell what that means.

He talks about issues that comes up after his departure. Axl doesn't want him back at that point if you look at his characterisation of him. If the issues revolve around his contributions, and it's got nothing to do with rehiring him, then I conclude it must be the recorded music.

Actually according to Del in the article "we arent supposed to talk about," They were trying to get Buckethead back right up until the New York shows. Thats why Ron didnt have a lot of time to learn all the material. What was it, he had like 2 weeks rehearsal with the band before the shows?

Yeah, I know. But I don't think they tried getting him back at that time (04). By the sound of it it looks like he was let go.

[polluxlm]

Has it ever occurred to your mind that your characterization of axl might be totally wrong?

No, it was from the gnronline interview in 2002. I hardly think anything in there wasn't approved.

Well yeah, I can see the logic behind him not being a bigmouth But if you only speak once a year, wouldn't it be clever to not say too much about the thing you don't know you'll be able to deliver?

Woops. I should have known that.? ? there can't be video/or audio.
Still, same difference.
It's just illogical to pick at those comments and decide how he really is. see the bold bit in the quote at the bottom of this post.
Actually in the articles you could easily find many things he's consistent in and steady at.

The paragraph in question says although the album could be done any day, it wasn't likely to be released anytime soon then. no bs. Not really contradicting. Just the reasons weren't mentioned.

after "blah blah blah", put "but, unfortunately" followed by the explanations he's given in other articles? and then put "therefore," right before "if you're...." to supply the gap and then you won't see the said contradiction anymore.

It explains obstacles. After 16 years there's obviously been a few.

A few? No shit.? You read this when you posted right?

To say the making of this album has been an unbearably long and incomprehensible journey would be an understatement. Overcoming the endless and seemingly insane amount of obstacles faced by all involved, notwithstanding the emotional challenges endured by everyone -- the fans, the band, our road crew and business team -- has at many times seemed like a bad dream in which one wakes up only to find that they are still in the nightmare. Unfortunately, this time it has been played out for over a decade in real life.

The true, ongoing, behind-the-scenes triumphs and casualties are much more complicated than any negative speculation that the media or otherwise has managed to hit upon. For much of the time, various legal issues have arisen, demanding that the best way to deal with these things publicly, quite frankly, was to keep our mouths shut in an attempt to ensure the best outcome-- especially one that wouldn?t jeopardize the band or the album. It?s easy for people to point out how others have handled similar situations or how they would have dealt with these issues themselves if they encountered them in their own lives. But again, without full knowledge of the various dynamics and circumstances involved, these types of comments or commentary are just uninformed, disassociated, generally useless -- and often hindering --speculation.

and again, note the line in bold.

My mind could be taking a walk off the map in it's characterization of him. But that's the nature of speculation. I never claim it as fact, it's just what I think at the moment.

But I am pretty sure that the reason for the album not coming out is mainly due to Axls personal issues, not some Deus Ex Machina hindering it.

[ronie]

"But I am pretty sure that the reason for the album not coming out is mainly due to Axls personal issues, not some Deus Ex Machina hindering it."
You're damn right it's Axl's personal issues...if it wasn't for these issues we could've had 3 albums from the new band so far...It's just Axl, he knows he's huge and he basically doesn't give a shit about anyone (like fans, managers, bandmates, ex-bandmates)...he acts like the superstar that he is which is ok, but please promiss not to whine again when he fails to deliver ChiDem this year, ok? Cuz the guy gave you the release date - March 6th, but he didn't specify the year...So keep your breath to... say March 6th 2025?!? Or like he said to the end of the world    

[russtcb]

...it's Axl's personal issues...  ...It's just Axl, he knows he's huge and he basically doesn't give a shit about anyone...? ?

Didn't you just say a few posts ago that you think the world of Axl? Then here you are saying what a piece of shit he is again.

Make up your mind dude.