The Blues

[GNRisSLASH]

Look at it this way, if bands like good charlotte and puddle of mudd can sell 3m albums with their crappy albums you really dont think that guns n roses with a long awaited album cannot do at least that?

You're nuts, Davegnfnr2k1662.? No way in hell this sells 5 mm in the US. None. I'd be surprised if it sold more than 2 million.? And yes, Slash not being on the album will hurt sales. As will the absence of Duff and Izzy and the other original members. Face it, the people on this board are in the minority.? Most fans from the 80s and early 90s have moved on. They still remember GnR as they were and have no clue what's going on now.? The original line up would sell 3-5 mm.? Axl solo under the GnR name won't.

How am I nuts? Just because you are all pissy slash is not in the band anymore does not mean it cant be done. Also did I not say 3 million? The range is 3-5 with 5m being the most. You dont think it can sell 10m world wide? If the first single is strong, the album before its all said and done will sell around 5m copies.? I know you think slash is the main reason people liked gnr but you are in the minority. Just look at gnr in the early 90s, it was all about Axl. Look at the AFD videos, esp. the PC video, and the banners for Axl. Slash and Duff always got jealous when they would walk through the airport and Axl would get asked for an autograph but they would not.? Most people liked gnr for Axls voice and songs.

When CD drops most people wont even care that slash is not in the band if the songs are good.
Another thing you forget is, sure gnr will lose a few fans but they are? going to gain a ton also that were not old enough to see them in the 80s and 90s. There are a lot of kids who are 16-24 that are just getting into gnr, and when CD comes out, you really dont think they are going to? buy it?

If it holds? true what Tommy said about CD that there are many types of songs on the album, a few rockers, a few ballads, a few pop songs etc etc. I think the pop songs will be the singles to get people to by the album, then the other tracks will make it a classic.

Do you realize how many albums 5 mm is?  Do you realize the Eminem, who is infinitely more popular than GnR these days, sold 3.5 mm of his album Encore in 2004. And that was only the 3rd best selling album of 2004. Only 1 artist sold more than 5 mm, Usher.  I'm no fan of Usher but in popularity, it isn't even close.

You seem to make this into a Slash vs Axl thread when it isn't at all but that's always your cop out, like you playing the race card or something.  The fact is, in the last 10 years, music has changed. Hip hop and rap rule the sales now, not hard rock.  Throw in the fact that GnR is completely different than it was, makes it even more difficult.  And, you constantly speak about a single. Where would that single be played? On modern rock stations, like KROQ or WXRK in LA and NY, respectively? Could be, but I doubt it.  On hip hop stations? There just aren't that many good hard rock stations left to drive a hard rock single from GnR.  VR got play but not b/c of Slash. Much of it was because of Weiland who is still thought of as a modern rock guy because of STP.  I liked The Blues a lot. I can't think of many stations in LA where it would fit, unfortunately.

[nesquick]

Well at the same time, Evanescence sold over 10 million copies worldwide of their album within 1 year and a half. NORAH JONES sold over 30 million albums within 3 years (2002-2005). So...music still sells a lot if it's quality.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Look at it this way, if bands like good charlotte and puddle of mudd can sell 3m albums with their crappy albums you really dont think that guns n roses with a long awaited album cannot do at least that?

You're nuts, Davegnfnr2k1662.? No way in hell this sells 5 mm in the US. None. I'd be surprised if it sold more than 2 million.? And yes, Slash not being on the album will hurt sales. As will the absence of Duff and Izzy and the other original members. Face it, the people on this board are in the minority.? Most fans from the 80s and early 90s have moved on. They still remember GnR as they were and have no clue what's going on now.? The original line up would sell 3-5 mm.? Axl solo under the GnR name won't.

How am I nuts? Just because you are all pissy slash is not in the band anymore does not mean it cant be done. Also did I not say 3 million? The range is 3-5 with 5m being the most. You dont think it can sell 10m world wide? If the first single is strong, the album before its all said and done will sell around 5m copies.? I know you think slash is the main reason people liked gnr but you are in the minority. Just look at gnr in the early 90s, it was all about Axl. Look at the AFD videos, esp. the PC video, and the banners for Axl. Slash and Duff always got jealous when they would walk through the airport and Axl would get asked for an autograph but they would not.? Most people liked gnr for Axls voice and songs.

When CD drops most people wont even care that slash is not in the band if the songs are good.
Another thing you forget is, sure gnr will lose a few fans but they are? going to gain a ton also that were not old enough to see them in the 80s and 90s. There are a lot of kids who are 16-24 that are just getting into gnr, and when CD comes out, you really dont think they are going to? buy it?

If it holds? true what Tommy said about CD that there are many types of songs on the album, a few rockers, a few ballads, a few pop songs etc etc. I think the pop songs will be the singles to get people to by the album, then the other tracks will make it a classic.

Do you realize how many albums 5 mm is?? Do you realize the Eminem, who is infinitely more popular than GnR these days, sold 3.5 mm of his album Encore in 2004. And that was only the 3rd best selling album of 2004. Only 1 artist sold more than 5 mm, Usher.? I'm no fan of Usher but in popularity, it isn't even close.

You seem to make this into a Slash vs Axl thread when it isn't at all but that's always your cop out, like you playing the race card or something.? The fact is, in the last 10 years, music has changed. Hip hop and rap rule the sales now, not hard rock.? Throw in the fact that GnR is completely different than it was, makes it even more difficult.? And, you constantly speak about a single. Where would that single be played? On modern rock stations, like KROQ or WXRK in LA and NY, respectively? Could be, but I doubt it.? On hip hop stations? There just aren't that many good hard rock stations left to drive a hard rock single from GnR.? VR got play but not b/c of Slash. Much of it was because of Weiland who is still thought of as a modern rock guy because of STP.? I liked The Blues a lot. I can't think of many stations in LA where it would fit, unfortunately.

Yes I know how many it is, and learn to read. I said 5m is the high end and it will sell 3m at the low end. So you are doing your typical thing and just focusing on one minor thing and not looking at the big picture. As for me making this a Axl vs. slash thing, I was not the one who was crying slash isn?t on the album so it wont sell as well as if it was the original gnr making a new album. So you should point your finger at the person. Who was that again?

As for where would the single be played, if you knew anything you would know that modern rock stations are failing and that station after station are adding classic rock back into those programming. ?If IRS were the first single it would get heavy airplay. In Boston one of the biggest markets in the country, Gnr is played on both rock stations WAAF and WBCN a lot. They both also don't just play the hits, you will hear? songs like my michelle and used to love her also. You failed to realized that modern rock stations are on their way out, and its going back to classic rock and modern rock mix.? WBCN over the past year had to change formats from just modern rock to both? because the were losing ratings.? There are more stations? now that play both than just modern rock. Also, the newer style of gnr is a mix of modern rock with classic rock so why wouldnt it get airplay on modern rock stations? How do songs like Cd, IRS and madagascar not fit in with modern rock?
CD is kinda like pearl jam, madagascar is kinda like? a mix of radio head and floyd.

Also Eminems last album sucked, thats why it did not sell. So like I said CD will sell atleast 3m with 5m ?being tops, and like I also said world wide it will sell around 10m

[jarmo]

All these guesses about how many copies it could sell are kinda funny.

It seems like nobody has really understood how the record buying public works. One album that's really great sells maybe one million while another album with one hit and 13 filler tracks sells two million.

There's no logic.


People don't buy albums based on how great the album is. They buy albums based on hits. If the song is on the radio and video is on MTV, it'll sell more.

How many people are gonna buy a new GN'R album because they'll know all tracks on it are great and how many are gonna buy it because they heard one song on the radio that they liked?


These days it seems like it's all about marketing and convincing people they really need to buy this album.



/jarmo

[nesquick]

Jarmo, Norah Jones has never had a big promotion, I've never seen her on MTV, her concerts are small (small clubs), almost "private", nothing like the big business, I don't even think she has ever made a Video. And she has sold over 30 million albums since 2002, more than Beyonce, Britney Spears or Eminem. How can you explain that? Plus, her music is...Jazz. Absolutely not trendy nowadays...absolutely not "marketable".

[spacebrain5000]

i think that has to do with the fact that there's still a marketable cd-buying music audience, with the 'older' music crowd that were around before downloading and don't download music. i personally think CD is gonna sell a shitload of copies because of that, and the fact that if they have a good hit, then newer younger fans will eat it up.
and this cd is a fuckin' legend at this point, 10 years of hype, i don't understand how people think it won't do well. what the fuck, man?
although i agree with jarmo that a lot of times, it's totally unpredictable what the record buying public will like.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Like I also said CD will sell a few million on the name guns n roses alone.

[GNRisSLASH]

Yes I know how many it is, and learn to read. I said 5m is the high end and it will sell 3m at the low end. So you are doing your typical thing and just focusing on one minor thing and not looking at the big picture. As for me making this a Axl vs. slash thing, I was not the one who was crying slash isn?t on the album so it wont sell as well as if it was the original gnr making a new album. So you should point your finger at the person. Who was that again?

As for where would the single be played, if you knew anything you would know that modern rock stations are failing and that station after station are adding classic rock back into those programming.  If IRS were the first single it would get heavy airplay. In Boston one of the biggest markets in the country, Gnr is played on both rock stations WAAF and WBCN a lot. They both also don't just play the hits, you will hear  songs like my michelle and used to love her also. You failed to realized that modern rock stations are on their way out, and its going back to classic rock and modern rock mix.  WBCN over the past year had to change formats from just modern rock to both  because the were losing ratings.  There are more stations  now that play both than just modern rock. Also, the newer style of gnr is a mix of modern rock with classic rock so why wouldnt it get airplay on modern rock stations? How do songs like Cd, IRS and madagascar not fit in with modern rock?
CD is kinda like pearl jam, madagascar is kinda like  a mix of radio head and floyd.

Also Eminems last album sucked, thats why it did not sell. So like I said CD will sell atleast 3m with 5m  being tops, and like I also said world wide it will sell around 10m

Boy you really take things personally ,DaveGnfnr2kVII.  I quoted facts about radio and album sales.  You reply with typical comments like "...and learn to read."; "you are doing your typical thing and just focusing on one minor thing"; "I was not the one who was crying slash isn?t on the album"; "if you knew anything"; and "You failed to realized".  Instead of sticking to a debate about album sales, you try to attack me instead of the issue at hand.  Time to grow up, Dave.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Yes I know how many it is, and learn to read. I said 5m is the high end and it will sell 3m at the low end. So you are doing your typical thing and just focusing on one minor thing and not looking at the big picture. As for me making this a Axl vs. slash thing, I was not the one who was crying slash isn?t on the album so it wont sell as well as if it was the original gnr making a new album. So you should point your finger at the person. Who was that again?

As for where would the single be played, if you knew anything you would know that modern rock stations are failing and that station after station are adding classic rock back into those programming.? If IRS were the first single it would get heavy airplay. In Boston one of the biggest markets in the country, Gnr is played on both rock stations WAAF and WBCN a lot. They both also don't just play the hits, you will hear? songs like my michelle and used to love her also. You failed to realized that modern rock stations are on their way out, and its going back to classic rock and modern rock mix.? WBCN over the past year had to change formats from just modern rock to both? because the were losing ratings.? There are more stations? now that play both than just modern rock. Also, the newer style of gnr is a mix of modern rock with classic rock so why wouldnt it get airplay on modern rock stations? How do songs like Cd, IRS and madagascar not fit in with modern rock?
CD is kinda like pearl jam, madagascar is kinda like? a mix of radio head and floyd.

Also Eminems last album sucked, thats why it did not sell. So like I said CD will sell atleast 3m with 5m? being tops, and like I also said world wide it will sell around 10m

Boy you really take things personally ,DaveGnfnr2kVII.? I quoted facts about radio and album sales.? You reply with typical comments like "...and learn to read."; "you are doing your typical thing and just focusing on one minor thing"; "I was not the one who was crying slash isn?t on the album"; "if you knew anything"; and "You failed to realized".? Instead of sticking to a debate about album sales, you try to attack me instead of the issue at hand.? Time to grow up, Dave.

What did I take pesonally? Once again you try and get off topic, you are doing it now and you have been with buddah. If? you want to get personal then take it to PMs and we will deal with it there. The board does not want to read this BS.? Thank you. If you want to stay on topic then do it and ill reply, if not then either dont post or PM me . I made a ton of points that  you did not even adress so try and talk about those in your next post.

[jarmo]

Jarmo, Norah Jones has never had a big promotion

I seem to remember seeing her album being mentioned on tv.....

Boy you really take things personally ,DaveGnfnr2kVII.

What's your problem?

Seems like all of your posts are nothing but whining about other posters.

Maybe you'll feel more at home on a VR or Slash board considering you have Slash in your username....

Time to grow up, Dave.

Same goes for you.




/jarmo

[jameslofton29]

GNRisSlash, you make a really good point about radio and GNR not really fitting in to that equation. Radio is on the way down. Here in my area, there's one rock station that MIGHT play them. But considering the fact that they never play their old stuff, I highly doubt they will be jumping for joy over CD. The only realistic option for Axl if he wants CD to be huge is for GNR to go Top 40. I've said this before, but I seriously think Axl HAS to have a 'Vertigo' style song on the album to really get the world's attention. A song that will be played on Top 40 like U2, Green Day, Britney,etc. A song that your grandma will be singing with your little cousin. If he only relies on hard rock/classic rock stations, CD wont be talked about for very long.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Jarmo, Norah Jones has never had a big promotion, I've never seen her on MTV, her concerts are small (small clubs), almost "private", nothing like the big business, I don't even think she has ever made a Video. And she has sold over 30 million albums since 2002, more than Beyonce, Britney Spears or Eminem. How can you explain that? Plus, her music is...Jazz. Absolutely not trendy nowadays...absolutely not "marketable".

Nesquick,
 ?Norah gets a ton of airplay on soft-rock radio stations here in the U.S. ?Where I work, when her song was hot, she had a song playing every 3 or 4 hours, trust me, it sticks in your head. ?Chicks dig it. ?
 ?I also agree with the people who mentioned music pirates, a.k.a. scum-bags. ?Until it's stopped or curbed, album sales will suck. ?What music acts need is something that makes the buyer need the real c.d. ?Whether it be artwork, encryption that makes it difficult to copy, flooding file-sharing communities with fake versions, etc. ?Until then, teen girls not as computer savvy as the boys will buy the most albums.
 ?Maybe Axl can do a duet with Britney or Christina! ?
 ?Axl is a smart man. ?I would love to bet anyone on this board CD sells at least 3 million albums in its first year...at least! ?The Blues would fucking kick ass as a pop tune similar to Patience or Don't Cry. ?Trust me. ?
 ?

[makane]

Something found on mygnr... listen to that? http://vitonen.net/ylimaaraiset/karri/novemberpain.mp3
PLEASE, don't tell me now Robin is the right lead guitar player for GN'R. WTF is that? Within a few month (2002 tour) the man fucked up more solos than Slash in 7 years. Even in the worst Slash days with 2Kg of cacaine and 5 bottles of Jack Daniels, Slash never fucked up like that. And it has nothing to do with his look, it's a question of talent and skills. Robin is just not talented enough, face it. It's not to "bash" him to say that, it's just to see (and hear) a reality. I have nothing against the man, I'm sure he is a nice guy, but I'm sorry, I don't think the band will be credible again with him on Lead.

Yeah, BH's solid guitar gives the sound credibility, and Robins unstable waver expands it into the incredibility. Shame the two leads would exhibit an exquisite balance between reason and lyricism.

Cant you see it, or should i say hear it! It is Robins way to play. And i think its pretty fucking intresting way to play! I trust Axls judgement on what he want!?

And lets trust our own ears!

You guys/girls have obviously never touched a guitar, as a guitar player i must say that really sucked ass. it's not a way of playing, it's screwing up. believe me, those screw ups were not intentional and it doe's NOT sound cool.

[nesquick]

I've met and played with several guitar players who put Robin on shame. And they are not even professionals. One of them is only 19? and is currently at the Beerkley Music School...He destroys Robin on guitar.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

GNRisSlash, you make a really good point about radio and GNR not really fitting in to that equation. Radio is on the way down. Here in my area, there's one rock station that MIGHT play them. But considering the fact that they never play their old stuff, I highly doubt they will be jumping for joy over CD. The only realistic option for Axl if he wants CD to be huge is for GNR to go Top 40. I've said this before, but I seriously think Axl HAS to have a 'Vertigo' style song on the album to really get the world's attention. A song that will be played on Top 40 like U2, Green Day, Britney,etc. A song that your grandma will be singing with your little cousin. If he only relies on hard rock/classic rock stations, CD wont be talked about for very long.

The blues is a popish top 40 hit. Tommy even said gnr have a few pop songs planned for CD. If the songs are hits, the stations will play them, its that simple.  A lot of rock stations play gnr now, just because they dont in your area does not mean they are not played on others. Like I pointed out earlier,a lot of modern rock stations are dying out and changing over to a mix of classic and modern rock. 

[jameslofton29]

Dave, there is a classic rock station here, and they dont play GNR. If they do play GNR, they play them when I have the radio off. I agree with you about The Blues. Out of the songs we've heard so far, it has the most potential to be a mainstream hit.

[GNRisSLASH]

GNRisSlash, you make a really good point about radio and GNR not really fitting in to that equation. Radio is on the way down. Here in my area, there's one rock station that MIGHT play them. But considering the fact that they never play their old stuff, I highly doubt they will be jumping for joy over CD. The only realistic option for Axl if he wants CD to be huge is for GNR to go Top 40. I've said this before, but I seriously think Axl HAS to have a 'Vertigo' style song on the album to really get the world's attention. A song that will be played on Top 40 like U2, Green Day, Britney,etc. A song that your grandma will be singing with your little cousin. If he only relies on hard rock/classic rock stations, CD wont be talked about for very long.

The blues is a popish top 40 hit. Tommy even said gnr have a few pop songs planned for CD. If the songs are hits, the stations will play them, its that simple.  A lot of rock stations play gnr now, just because they dont in your area does not mean they are not played on others. Like I pointed out earlier,a lot of modern rock stations are dying out and changing over to a mix of classic and modern rock. 

Dave, two of the biggest markets in the US - LA and NY do NOT have hard rock stations that drive album sales.  LA has 95.5 KLSX, which plays some GnR but nothing really from new bands at all.  The station doens't drive album sales.  KROQ, which plays bands like The Killers, drives sales.  Power 106, a hip hop station, drives sales.  In NY, KLSX, plays the same music as KROQ in LA.   What no one has mentioned is satellite.  XM has The Boneyard, channell 41 and they play all hard rock.  Sirius has a hard rock station too.  But hard rock albums, by and large, have not sold well in the last 5 years in the US.  Bands like Franz Ferdinand, The White Stripes, The Killers are not in the same vein as GnR.  They are more modern rock and contrary to what you claim, are not dying.  Did you watch the MTV Awards? Which bands dominated the show? Green Day. Killers.  They are modern rock bands, not hard rock bands.  Maybe in Boston modern rock stations are failing but that is absolutlely NOT the norm in the US. 

[younggunner]

krock here in Ny went from a striclly modern format to a classic/hard rock format. Now they play gnr everyday whereas in the past they never did.

Late 80's early/mid 90's rock is where its at. AInt no denying. As long as the new material is good GNR will have no problem getting on Krock here in ny. The ballads will get on q104.3 as well another major station.

[Axl_owns_dexter]

Same here in Milwaukee.  Lazer 103, which was trying to be somewhat modern rock has given away to a classic/current format.  Classic rock really is the dominant genre in the Milwaukee market.

Plus in Madison, the biggest rock station is JJO, a mostly modern rock station...however GnR gets airplay on there.

So the state of Wisconsin is in the bag for ya Axl.   

[dave-gnfnr2k]

GNRisSlash, you make a really good point about radio and GNR not really fitting in to that equation. Radio is on the way down. Here in my area, there's one rock station that MIGHT play them. But considering the fact that they never play their old stuff, I highly doubt they will be jumping for joy over CD. The only realistic option for Axl if he wants CD to be huge is for GNR to go Top 40. I've said this before, but I seriously think Axl HAS to have a 'Vertigo' style song on the album to really get the world's attention. A song that will be played on Top 40 like U2, Green Day, Britney,etc. A song that your grandma will be singing with your little cousin. If he only relies on hard rock/classic rock stations, CD wont be talked about for very long.

The blues is a popish top 40 hit. Tommy even said gnr have a few pop songs planned for CD. If the songs are hits, the stations will play them, its that simple.? A lot of rock stations play gnr now, just because they dont in your area does not mean they are not played on others. Like I pointed out earlier,a lot of modern rock stations are dying out and changing over to a mix of classic and modern rock.?

Dave, two of the biggest markets in the US - LA and NY do NOT have hard rock stations that drive album sales.? LA has 95.5 KLSX, which plays some GnR but nothing really from new bands at all.? The station doens't drive album sales.? KROQ, which plays bands like The Killers, drives sales.? Power 106, a hip hop station, drives sales.? In NY, KLSX, plays the same music as KROQ in LA.? ?What no one has mentioned is satellite.? XM has The Boneyard, channell 41 and they play all hard rock.? Sirius has a hard rock station too.? But hard rock albums, by and large, have not sold well in the last 5 years in the US.? Bands like Franz Ferdinand, The White Stripes, The Killers are not in the same vein as GnR.? They are more modern rock and contrary to what you claim, are not dying.? Did you watch the MTV Awards? Which bands dominated the show? Green Day. Killers.? They are modern rock bands, not hard rock bands.? Maybe in Boston modern rock stations are failing but that is absolutlely NOT the norm in the US.?

KROQ plays gnr now. And this years mtv VMAs was the worst awards show ever. Everyone bashed it and said how boring it was. The FACT is GIS like I said more and more stations are going away from the strictly modern rock, how much more proof do you need?