Tackles, balls and Seaman - The footie thread

[Izzy]

I had to re-read your post to find out where you said 'out of line'.? Turns out you said "while thats out of line, we're talking about 5 people in a stadium of 40,000" - you can't really blame me for missing it.?

Oh but i can, and i do. I'd never make accusations at other people without some resemblance of evidence

I never said I thought Spain should be banned from anything, that would be hypocritical because racism is a problem in football around lots of European countries, certainly not just Spain.

Indeed, but there are many who are.

I've been saying racism is a problem for ages, because Arsenal have had loads of problems with it in the past in Europe but those weren't England games, so nobody cared.? What i'm hoping is that this incident in Spain will wake people up a bit and bring the problem out into the open, so maybe it can be sorted out.?

How many racists do u think there are in Spain? 50? 100? 500, 000? It doesn't matter - there are rascists in Spain, and NO ONE cared before the match. Now the actions of a tiny minority of a football crowd causes chaos? Now, we seem to have to do something about racism as if it wasn't a problem last week!!!

What annoyed me the most about your post was how you seemed to brush aside the problem, saying "yeah, they were idiots and all, but the news probably turned it up to make it look worse".

Well there were very few of them, and the media DID turn it up. Are u annoyed at me or the facts?

You ask where you made excuses for them, and then go on to talk about the 40,000 people not making noises.? We're not talking about those people, we're talking about the considerably larger number of people than 5 that were making the noises.? I've even seen footage of security guards joining in with the dancing.

I think your missing the point. The vast majority where behaving, 95 per cent were behaving - and i think the figure is higher even than that. Your always going to get dangerous minorities, its not new, its not the end of the world. If it had been 100 England fans would you have said England had a massive problem? No, because we don't. And neither does Spain.

I never, ever said all Spanish people are racist I think you made that bit up,

Now, now, i never said that. I said to think all Spanish people where rascist is a slightly dubious view - i didn't say you adhered to that, but asked u to consider it
 

but you can't deny that the Spanish FA are taking the situation a little bit lightly, can you?

They said sorry - they could have done more...how? If they have evidence action will be taken

Have you seen the footage of the security guards joining in with the monkey dancing yet?

No i haven't, and does it matter? - i knew some security guards where rascist before the match.?

This coming from the guy who dubbed me the self-righteous brigade.

Your views are not self righteous? Did u care about rascism in Spain before the match? Where u obligated to post about it before the match? No. But when it appears at a football match its suddenly a serious issue - when no one cared before! Have u been posting here about the racist abuse Liverpool suffered in the UEFA Cup each year? Or that Lazio fans have banners drapped from the stadium with rascist slogans?

These are small misguided groups in socities that condemn such behaviour. It's always been the way and very sadly, will always be the way. See instead the millions that behave superbly rather than a minority that resists pressure to conform. See the success the FA and FIFA have had combating this rather than the 100 they missed.

[Jim]

Have u been posting here about the racist abuse Liverpool suffered in the UEFA Cup each year?

I'm sure the man in that hat has more than an opinion on it, seeing as Arsenal have had it pretty bad as well...

What happened in the friendly just highlighted the problem. And also, bought it to the attention of those we maybe don't watch La Liga...

Okay, so one or two fans isn't anything to over react about? (I'm taking what you said out of context and I like it, so shut up  )

Well, did you see the chanting at the Real Madrid game? Fuck me.

American History X comes to mind.

I honestly opened my mouth in shock. Granted, it was just three (?) fans (ha, 'fans'), but seeing that in the 21st century shocked me even more than what happened in Madrid when England were there. That was just fucking sick.

[Danny Top Hat]

I'd never make accusations at other people without some resemblance of evidence

I've accused you of trivialising the issue, and I have all the evidence I need in your posts.  Just because you casually mentioned that racism is 'out of line', that does not mean you automatically escape criticism.

Indeed, but there are many who are.

Well then I guess that's something we both agree on.

there are rascists in Spain, and NO ONE cared before the match.

Did I not just say that i've been saying racism is a problem for ages?  Arsenal have suffered consistent abuse in the Champions League over the years and, as much as we complained about it, no one has cared.  That's why it's a gooood thing that these people are finally being noticed and condemned - and it'd be a better thing if they actually started being punished.  If you had read my post before, I wouldn't have to repeat myself.

Well there were very few of them, and the media DID turn it up. Are u annoyed at me or the facts?

You.  I strongly disagree that there were very few of them - and I don't think we should be turning a blind eye to the fact that every time a black player got the ball in that game (and the following two Real Madrid games) the crowd were making loud monkey noises at them and getting away with it completely scott free.  Public racism is meant to be frowned upon slightly these days, isn't it?

If it had been 100 England fans would you have said England had a massive problem? No, because we don't. And neither does Spain.

It wasn't 100 England fans because our FA acted strongly to our problems in the 70s and 80s and managed to come close to eradicating the problem.  In the Birmingham/Blackburn game, two or three fans made monkey noises, they've already been punished, and i'm sure they won't do it again.  Spain has yet to even investigate any of their incidents, even though the noises could, y'know, actually be heard clearly there, and we've got plenty of footage of people making the gestures.  England don't have a problem, Spain do.

They said sorry - they could have done more...how?

They're supposed to be in charge, aren't they?  Start investigating!  If a headteacher is aware of racial bullying in his school, do you really think an "i'm sorry" would do the trick?

No i haven't, and does it matter? - i knew some security guards where rascist before the match.

Of course it matters!  They're supposed to be the ones breaking everything up, not bloody joining in!  How can Spain not have a problem when even the protectors of the peace are racist?

Your views are not self righteous?

No, they most certainly are not.  I'm not some idiot newbie who felt I had to post something here to feel good about myself.  This is one of the places I choose to go to talk about football, because i've been talking about football here for more years than i'd choose to count.  Sometimes I agree with popular opinion and I say so, sometimes I disagree with popular opinion and I say so.  I'm angry that someone like you who has also been here for a long time would patronise me like that.

[axl_rose_700]

This racism thing is getting boring now, can we just drop it?

2-2 for Leeds last night, not bad I suppose, at least we didn't lose and hopefully we can build and go on an unbeaten run, but we'll probably get beat by Rotherham next week 

I'm really impressed by David Healy, Gregan on the other hand has been shocking so far!

[GNR_Green]

Are Leeds' fans coming around to Brian Deane yet?  I got the impression he's not popular there but he was probably your best player against us.

[axl_rose_700]

Are Leeds' fans coming around to Brian Deane yet?? I got the impression he's not popular there but he was probably your best player against us.

It's strange 'cos he's shit but popular cos he tries hard and gives 100%, the fact he's a Leeds lad helps him aswell. who do you support?

[Izzy]

This racism thing is getting boring now, can we just drop it?

Most definetly - i refuse to accept that a handful of drunks in a football stadium constitutes a problem with a) Spain, b) football

Luis Garcia and Traore can be added to Liverpool's injury list. Lol - Arsenal will have fun against us on Sunday, we don't posses a single striker in the whole club, whats that Neil Mellor? Like i said...no strikers.....

If we can keep the route down to 4-0.........

[MadmanDan]

Could we get back to Football,please?? Real really blows tonight,but that's not anything new.

Everyone picks on Beckham,but how can he perform as well as he did when he played for Man Utd when he's being played as a defensive midfielder?

Well he did make an issue of announcing how much he loves and wants a cental role. What role did he think he was going to have? Zidane is an attacking midfielder, and Figo is a much better winger than Beckham.

Let's face it.. Beckham's best role is sitting out on the right, putting in some good crosses and scoring the odd free kick.

He said he wanted a more central role when he was at Manchester,and he knew Roy Keane would be behind him,but now at Madrid he has to be Roy Keane.He can't do that,he's a different type of player,no matter how hard he tries every game.

I just find it unfair that Becks gets tons of criticism for not being able to do something he was never tought to do.

[Jim]

This racism thing is getting boring now, can we just drop it?

I'm with this guy.

You've reached a point where you both have conflicting opinions that won't be changed, so belt up boys.

[the dirt]

Footballer of the year: (Euro and/or FIFA)

Sheva.

Who are your picks?

he's completely dominating, and a striker is supposed to score, right?, bottom line________

[badapple81]

Could we get back to Football,please?? Real really blows tonight,but that's not anything new.

Everyone picks on Beckham,but how can he perform as well as he did when he played for Man Utd when he's being played as a defensive midfielder?

Well he did make an issue of announcing how much he loves and wants a cental role. What role did he think he was going to have? Zidane is an attacking midfielder, and Figo is a much better winger than Beckham.

Let's face it.. Beckham's best role is sitting out on the right, putting in some good crosses and scoring the odd free kick.

He said he wanted a more central role when he was at Manchester,and he knew Roy Keane would be behind him,but now at Madrid he has to be Roy Keane.He can't do that,he's a different type of player,no matter how hard he tries every game.

I just find it unfair that Becks gets tons of criticism for not being able to do something he was never tought to do.

He was never going to get a central role at Man Utd with Scholes and Keane in the middle.

The player alongside Zidane has to be a defensive style midfielder, and you were right, Beckham is not. And he's never going to displace Zidane from his central role. He must have known before he moved that both of his favoured positions had far better players already there.

[Danny Top Hat]

Arsenal will have fun against us on Sunday, we don't posses a single striker in the whole club

We're not doing too well on that front either.  Henry and Reyes are both injured, so it's probably gonna be Bergkamp and Van Persie (both of whom like to play just behind the striker).  Prediction: 2-2

[GNR_Green]

Are Leeds' fans coming around to Brian Deane yet?  I got the impression he's not popular there but he was probably your best player against us.

It's strange 'cos he's shit but popular cos he tries hard and gives 100%, the fact he's a Leeds lad helps him aswell. who do you support?

Argyle.  Going up to Leicester tomorrow to see us take 3 Leicestershire points.  It's an interesting league so far I think, it's not exactly predictable!  I'll be happy with a mid table finish, I doubt you would be though?  I'm enjoying it overall, it's not what I'm used to.  I started going regularly when we were in the 3rd division under the chairmanship of Dan McCauley.  Those were dark days, we couldn't even beat exeter sometimes!  So compared to that even losing to Leeds was something to be thankful for!

As for Deane, he's not shit he just lacks a bit of pace (ok, a lot of pace!).  He's got a good touch and caused our defence a lot of problems.

[Izzy]

Arsenal will have fun against us on Sunday, we don't posses a single striker in the whole club

We're not doing too well on that front either.? Henry and Reyes are both injured, so it's probably gonna be Bergkamp and Van Persie (both of whom like to play just behind the striker).? Prediction: 2-2

Liverpool scoring 2? Can't see it myself - usually we're happy/lucky to get one a game. Well as ever, may the best team on the day win.

[Jim]

I predict 3-0 Arsenal.

Three or more, and at best I'll give Liverpool a consolation, on behalf of some bad defending.

3-0 or 4-1.

[axl_rose_700]

Are Leeds' fans coming around to Brian Deane yet?? I got the impression he's not popular there but he was probably your best player against us.

It's strange 'cos he's shit but popular cos he tries hard and gives 100%, the fact he's a Leeds lad helps him aswell. who do you support?

Argyle.? Going up to Leicester tomorrow to see us take 3 Leicestershire points.? It's an interesting league so far I think, it's not exactly predictable!? I'll be happy with a mid table finish, I doubt you would be though?? I'm enjoying it overall, it's not what I'm used to.? I started going regularly when we were in the 3rd division under the chairmanship of Dan McCauley.? Those were dark days, we couldn't even beat exeter sometimes!? So compared to that even losing to Leeds was something to be thankful for!

As for Deane, he's not shit he just lacks a bit of pace (ok, a lot of pace!).? He's got a good touch and caused our defence a lot of problems.

Personally I'd be happy with a top 10 finish just to stabilise us and make sure we don't do a Shef Wed, and I don't thikn we have the finances in place to get promoted and realistically stay there, I'm prepared to wait a few years to make sure that when we get promoted it's for good.

[Izzy]

Nooooo...Chelsea are going to win the league.....

Oh well...better than Man Utd i suppose....

[MadmanDan]

If Man United or Arsenal get their consistency back Chelski ain't winning shit!  It hurts for me to say it,but my money's on Arsenal

[Danny Top Hat]

Hmm, Chelski for the title...?

Hate to say it, but I think so.  They're my tip for the Champions League as well, oh dear...

[Izzy]

Liverpool v Arsenal about to begin - and we've got Mellor and Pongolle up front - this is going to be one of the most painful 90 mins of football to date

Prediction 3-0.

...and thats me being optimistic