First Lieutenant Ehren Watada still refuses Iraq deployment

[Guns N RockMusic]

United States Officers and Soldiers don't take an oath of allegiance to the UN.  The opinions of the UN and their policies have no bearing on the military.  The moment I become subordinate to the UN I will resign my commission and join any faction that aims to keep American soverignty in tact.

[Guns N RockMusic]

My patriot definition was more detailed than the standard dictionary one. ?While I could make a case for my definition being the standard, I don't think I need to. ?Your definitions say someone who DEFENDS their country. ?Country in this aspect is defined as a soverign state. ?A soverign state is in essence a government - ours being determined through democracy.

The key word being there is "DEFEND". ?A Patriot makes sacrifices and endures times of difficulty to defend. ?While some may argue that to defend is a variety of terms, common sense and honesty will admit that true defense is to put one's well being in danger. ?Blogging and commentaries don't count. ?

[SLCPUNK]

United States Officers and Soldiers don't take an oath of allegiance to the UN. 

Nobody claimed they did, strawman.

[SLCPUNK]

The key word being there is "DEFEND".

Defending a nation from a legitimate attack and invading a country on trumped up charges and LIES, are quite different.

[Stonerose]

I wish there were more brave men like him in the army. Men who arent afraid to stand up for what they believe is right.

[TAP]

My patriot definition was more detailed than the standard dictionary one.  While I could make a case for my definition being the standard, I don't think I need to.  Your definitions say someone who DEFENDS their country.  Country in this aspect is defined as a soverign state.  A soverign state is in essence a government - ours being determined through democracy.

The key word being there is "DEFEND".  A Patriot makes sacrifices and endures times of difficulty to defend.  While some may argue that to defend is a variety of terms, common sense and honesty will admit that true defense is to put one's well being in danger.  Blogging and commentaries don't count. 

No offence, but that's one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read here. Just because the Bushies have redefined "good" sounding words like patriot, freedom and victory to make it sound like you're a terrorist if you don't support the war, that doesn't mean they supersede the dictionary definitions.

[SLCPUNK]

No offence, but that's one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read here. Just because the Bushies have redefined "good" sounding words like patriot, freedom and victory to make it sound like you're a terrorist if you don't support the war, that doesn't mean they supersede the dictionary definitions.

Well according to him, he doesn't need a dictionary, just "common sense and honesty". That way he can define it anyway he wants, as long as he believes he is being honest with himself and pretends to have common sense.

[Prometheus]

I wish there were more brave men like him in the army. Men who arent afraid to stand up for what they believe is right.

the thingi s there are..... and they are in iraq..... not saying everyone in iraq is pro war, but there are brave men that belive in this war and will fight to achive its goals. IMO th braver men of the war are not that ones who stand against the war or stand for it but are the ones that will go in beleiving either but will fight for their friends on the line with them. Time and time again in canada and the US the public refuses to see that soilders fight cause they are told to they do so not blindly as many say but they do so to protect the lives of their friends and to bring what they feel is the goal of their mission go in get out alive and safe.

[Prometheus]

No offence, but that's one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read here. Just because the Bushies have redefined "good" sounding words like patriot, freedom and victory to make it sound like you're a terrorist if you don't support the war, that doesn't mean they supersede the dictionary definitions.

Well according to him, he doesn't need a dictionary, just "common sense and honesty". That way he can define it anyway he wants, as long as he believes he is being honest with himself and pretends to have common sense.

its like building a house though, you want things to be leel, but in some cases level doest work so you make it true :p

[Prometheus]

As a veteran myself, I'd like to add my 2 cents to this conversation.? I joined the Army in 1998...got out in late 2002 right when all this stuff was starting off.? I joined knowing that if I had to be in battle during my tenure, I'd have to do it...it's there in the contract.? When 9/11 happened, I along with everyone else around me in my unit was very very patriotic...we all wanted to fight.? After that, things took a wrong turn....maybe because I paid very close attention to it I could see that it was a crock of shit immediately.? I mean we're after Al-Qaeda when all of a sudden there's a sharp halt and boom we're on a different path for a different agenda.? I had a $25k re-enlistment bonus and a promotion to SGT thrown at me.? I said no way...my service was up and I have no desire to fight this war.? My time was up anyway so it didn't matter....call me unpatriotic whatever...I don't give a shit...no blood on my hands.
This 1LT signed up AFTER the war....he knew damn well what he was getting into.? Right there in his contract it is required of him to serve his branch of service under time of need.? Regardless if he feels it's wrong or not, he is obligated to do his part.? My view on it is this....he should be stripped of his college degree that the Army paid for.? He should be given a dishonorable discharge and loss of all benefits.? As far as jail goes...I don't think it's needed.? He's going to be judged for his choices all his life.? I can understand if it was cowardice..however, he took the oath as a COMMISSIONED OFFICER to lead hundreds of other troops.? He should be working in a supply unit right now sharpening pencils.?
The war is fucked up..we all know that, but our soldiers are doing a duty that their government (not their country) is paying them to do.? They all chose to do what they're doing....there wasn't a draft.? If it was a draft situation then he would have every right to protest.?

exactly my next points. Im all over the protest right for the people but you sign up knowing that you could be asked to wage war and die for your country.... dont go oh its illegal or not after teh fact your walk away means that others will be sent in your place

[The Dog]

My patriot definition was more detailed than the standard dictionary one.? While I could make a case for my definition being the standard, I don't think I need to.? Your definitions say someone who DEFENDS their country.? Country in this aspect is defined as a soverign state.? A soverign state is in essence a government - ours being determined through democracy.

The key word being there is "DEFEND".? A Patriot makes sacrifices and endures times of difficulty to defend.? While some may argue that to defend is a variety of terms, common sense and honesty will admit that true defense is to put one's well being in danger.? Blogging and commentaries don't count.?

No offence, but that's one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read here. J

Really?  I've heard Guns N Music (Flagg) say A LOT more retarded things....but yeah, this does rank up there with them.  Just put these two statements side by side, both from Guns N Music

The word 'Patriot' is a very powerful word, and people want to be able to use it.  So they just try to redefine the word to suite their needs.

then he says

My patriot definition was more detailed than the standard dictionary one.? While I could make a case for my definition being the standard, I don't think I need to.

HAHAHAHAH pot, kettle, black 

To say you can't support the troops by not supporting the war is such 2004 Bush propaganda...NOBODY IS BUYING IT ANYMORE!!! WAKE UP!  God, are people STILL this idiotic? Its like these morons who STILL think saddam had ties to 9-11 !!!  I just dont' get it.

[Guns N RockMusic]

My definiiton is the standard definition in all Political Theory courses.? I explained how the dicitonary definition was no different, just vague and ambiguous.? Let's use a little common sense here.? Not everyone can be a "patriot".? yet, many of you want to look at yourself that way.? Running your fucking mouth does not make you a patriot.? Very few of you do anything that would constititute "defense" in the caliber this definition requires.? If you think typing on the internet and going to a rally with a bunch of socialists who hate capitalism and are just using the war to push their agenda is on par with someone who risks their life for America, then you're a fucking fool.? Call me retarded and dumb if you like, but you're civilians, not patriots.

People who badmouth their country, make no sacrifices for it, wish to change it from top to bottom aren't patriots - at best they're revolutionaries.? But it's cool, continue to call yourselves Patriots.? When your kids ask you what you did during the Iraq war and you tell them you were a patriot by voting and bitcing on a message forum, then they give you that queer look, you'll have to admit that you're full of shit.

I dodge bullets and SLC sells real estate.  But we're both Patriots. 

[SLCPUNK]

The word 'Patriot' is a very powerful word, and people want to be able to use it.  So they just try to redefine the word to suite their needs.

then he says

My patriot definition was more detailed than the standard dictionary one.  While I could make a case for my definition being the standard, I don't think I need to.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

I friggin love it man!

[SLCPUNK]

I dodge bullets and SLC sells real estate.  But we're both Patriots. 

People are firing guns by your computer?

[Guns N RockMusic]

The word 'Patriot' is a very powerful word, and people want to be able to use it.? So they just try to redefine the word to suite their needs.

then he says

My patriot definition was more detailed than the standard dictionary one.? While I could make a case for my definition being the standard, I don't think I need to.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

I friggin love it man!

What part doesn't your small mind grasp?  I explained how what I said was the definition.  You're trying to claim you're a patriot, but do NOTHING warrant DEFENSE of your country.  You seem to not understand what defend means.  So you're trying to redefine "defense" to suit your agenda.  People who support an international control aren't defending America.  You're not a patriot, you're a blow hard.  Get it through your head.  Find me a list of patriots who claim you in their numbers?

[SLCPUNK]

Your unyielding stubbornness is the stuff of legends, and may very well take you to an early death.

[SLCPUNK]

Find me a list of patriots who claim you in their numbers?

I must only guess that you are posting from Baghdad right now?

[Guns N RockMusic]

Your ignorance is astounding.  As I told you once, I will be in Iraq soon enough.  But just because someone isn't in Iraq or doesn't go because their job prohibits it (Read: Brody who is a submariner) doesn't mean that their capacity in the military is any less important.  Someone in the National Guard in Iowa helping in a disatser, like Katrina is just as important.  Do you have to be in the military to be a Patriot, no but everyone who serves in the military is.  And don't kid yourself, if this were months from now and I was posting here from Baghdad, it wouldn't make a difference to you. 

[SLCPUNK]

Your ignorance is astounding.  As I told you once, I will be in Iraq soon enough.

You have seen no action yet, so I don't see how you can be chest pumping away here on how you are "dodging bullets".

Your argument is absurd anyway,  claiming that unless you are serving or have served, then you are not a "patriot", or that your opinion on Iraq or national security is not credible. Well my wife served, and thinks you are a shame to the military-using the uniform as a means to try and win arguments.  I guess she must be right, since she "served".

Just be glad I'm typing this instead of her, she'd probably tell you to take your version of "patriotism" and shove it.

[Guns N RockMusic]

Wow your wife was an ambassador and now she was a soldier too.  All of this before her early 30s.  Nothing short of amazing.