How can justice system be this wrong?

[Sin Cut]

I got an idea for this of the Berkley Riots post "Talk about a sick case - I hope they give her the DP"

Surely this is a fun topic now at x-mas time 

In my opinion the justice system overall has many flaws.

- How come do you get a bigger fine of speeding than if you beat someone?

- How is it possible that you get to do more time of finance crimes than if you kill someone?

These are things that could never fit into my conception of justice.

I've always wondered also, when we get refugees or immigrants, now I don't have a problem with that. But when they do crimes, why do we keep them here? And I'm not talking about shoplifting, but when we get a bit further from that.

Now isn't it just the understandable thing to do, that if you give someone shelter in your house and the next morning you found your stereo stolen, that person isn't welcome anymore? Right?

Here's a true story and I don't find any sense of justice in.

A girl I know was raped, and it took forever to close the case, since the guys testifying for the raper didn't make it to the hearing four times.
Why? 'cos they were too stoned or in prison.

And in the end the guy walked. And beated and raped another girl two months from that. The first girls lawyer wanted to file a complain or whatever it's called, but the girl couldn't take the pain to go through what happened another few months in court. And how bad must it feel when you go and tell you've been violated like that and for the victim it was like the law, or the police, said she was lying.

Now this girl is someone very, very, close to me. And if I see the guy I will beat him like he's never been beaten before. And it is for paying him back, it is for punishment. I once had a fight with a guy who had beaten a girl I had as a fuckbuddy back then and he's never bothered her since. Fear works. Violense works. I'm sure most of you know cases that have been bullied in school, hell, maybe even been beaten by a stepdad at home. Now isn't it strange that it stops when you prove more powerfull?

You see, not everyone listens to reason.

So yes, if I see him, I will pay him back, 'cos the law didn't. And 'cos they didn't believe the word of a sixteen year old girl over an drug addict. And if for nothing more than to show the girl acts like that don't go unpunished. If for nothing more, it fights too much against my believes of "right". Everytime I see, or hear a man beating his wife or beating his girlfriend, it reminds of something of my childhood. And I believe it's every man's responsibility to stop it.

Now can anyone, from the heart, say my actions would be unjustified? By your own measure of right.

[supaplex]

if i was in your place i'd do the same thing man. i mean, the rapists, in my opinion, should be punished like the killers or even worse because a killer takes a life away but the dead person won't feel anything anymore but a raped person will have to live with that moment for the rest of her life. some people get over that moment some don't but still i don't think it's easy.
and in your case. i'd definitely beat that fucker until he pisses blood so after he gets out of hospital he'll be afraid to walk alone on the street. yes, it's not legally correct but when the law system fails maybe it needs a little civil help.

[Guns N RockMusic]

Death Wish style.  Vigilante Justic is the only true justice.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

Fear works. Violense works. I'm sure most of you know cases that have been bullied in school, hell, maybe even been beaten by a stepdad at home. Now isn't it strange that it stops when you prove more powerfull?

man, i guess one day you'll learn.

violence works .....
so i guess using violence to have sex with a girl works too ?

hum.

[Izzy]

Violense works. I'm sure most of you know cases that have been bullied in school, hell, maybe even been beaten by a stepdad at home. Now isn't it strange that it stops when you prove more powerfull?

Wow, i can only imagine the kind of home you were raised in, drunken abusive parents, problems with the law, long term struggles with substances?

If so then you have my pity

If not - with views like that, you have my contempt

[GeorgeSteele]

Violence as deterrence or self-defense should be necessary only as a last resort.? But its worthless as payback.? Sin Cut, I also grew up in a violent environment and thought just like you did, until realizing that you're adopting the mentality and problem "solving" methods of people you despise, in essence becoming like them.?

Boring cliche, but true - best revenge is living well.? That's worked for me for quite a while now; in fact, I never look at my "People To Kill" list anymore.

? ?

[The Dog]

Fear works. Violense works. I'm sure most of you know cases that have been bullied in school, hell, maybe even been beaten by a stepdad at home. Now isn't it strange that it stops when you prove more powerfull?

man, i guess one day you'll learn.

violence works .....
so i guess using violence to have sex with a girl works too ?

hum.

this coming from the guy who wished a bomb would drop on my house and kill all my friends and family and that every "american and international warmonger" would burn in hell.

yeah, you're not a hyprocrite at all are you?   

on topic - i agree with george steele, violence is a last resort, but sometimes its the only thing that works.

[25]

Now can anyone, from the heart, say my actions would be unjustified? By your own measure of right.

Yeah, I'd say it's unjustified. I'm not saying that the guy wouldn't deserve it, but that your anger is pointed in the wrong direction.

Yes, we'd all like to take our own revenge against those who slight us. The very reason that we, as civilized people, have created justice systems to deal with these situations is because if the creation of laws and dispensing of justice is left up to each individual it would be unbridled chaos. Obviously.

If the system has failed you (or, in this case, not even you but someone else that you feel the need to project your issues onto) then why are you still pointing your finger at the alledged rapist? Why not at the prosecutors or the investigators involved in the case? They failed you. Or maybe you think they did a good job? Then perhaps it was the intricacies of the law which failed you - harrass the legislature, make a case for the law being changed. That's justified.

But if all you're interested in is meteing out your own punishment for your own gratification then yes, it's completely unjustified. The guy isn't being punished for his crime, he's being punished for how you feel about it. As far as I'm aware, there's no law against hurting your feelings. And the moment that you decide to hand out your own punishment, you've overstepped your boundaries as a member of society. You become a criminal in your own right, and just as dangerous to the rest of us as the rapist. If you can't see that, or don't care about it, then you're already a danger to us and a lot closer to the rapist - you're both sociopaths.You both flaunt the rules of civilized conduct to get what you want, both spit in the face of social ethics for personal satisfaction.

[Guns N RockMusic]

Very well said.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

Fear works. Violense works. I'm sure most of you know cases that have been bullied in school, hell, maybe even been beaten by a stepdad at home. Now isn't it strange that it stops when you prove more powerfull?

man, i guess one day you'll learn.

violence works .....
so i guess using violence to have sex with a girl works too ?

hum.

this coming from the guy who wished a bomb would drop on my house and kill all my friends and family and that every "american and international warmonger" would burn in hell.

yeah, you're not a hyprocrite at all are you?   

on topic - i agree with george steele, violence is a last resort, but sometimes its the only thing that works.

my stupid comment was refering to your "smart" comment. read again. i dont wish you die.

[SLCPUNK]

I want to kick somebody's ass right now.

Who wants to fight me?

[the dirt]

I want to kick somebody's ass right now.

Who wants to fight me?

Alright. You're dead.

[GeorgeSteele]

Bonasera: I believe in America. America has made my fortune. And I raised my daughter in the American fashion. I gave her freedom, but I taught her never to dishonor her family. She found a boyfriend; not an Italian. She went to the movies with him; she stayed out late. I didn't protest. Two months ago, he took her for a drive, with another boyfriend. They made her drink whiskey. And then they tried to take advantage of her. She resisted. She kept her honor. So they beat her, like an animal. When I went to the hospital, her nose was a'broken. Her jaw was a'shattered, held together by wire. She couldn't even weep because of the pain. But I wept. Why did I weep? She was the light of my life beautiful girl. Now she will never be beautiful again. I went to the police, like a good American. These two boys were brought to trial. The judge sentenced them to three years in prison - suspended sentence. Suspended sentence! They went free that very day! I stood in the courtroom like a fool. And those two bastards, they smiled at me. Then I said to my wife, for justice, we must go to Don Corleone.

Don Corleone: Why did you go to the police? Why didn't you come to me first?

Bonasera: What do you want of me? Tell me anything, but do what I beg you to do.

Don Corleone: What is that? [Bonasera whispers his request in the Don's ear] That I cannot do.

Bonasera: I will give you anything you ask.

Don Corleone: We've known each other many years, but this is the first time you ever came to me for counsel or for help. I can't remember the last time that you invited me to your house for a cup of coffee, even though my wife is godmother to your only child. But let's be frank here. You never wanted my friendship. And uh, you were afraid to be in my debt.

Bonasera: I didn't want to get into trouble.

Don Corleone: I understand. You found paradise in America, you had a good trade, you made a good living. The police protected you and there were courts of law. And you didn't need a friend like me. But uh, now you come to me and you say - 'Don Corleone, give me justice.' But you don't ask with respect. You don't offer friendship. You don't even think to call me Godfather. Instead, you come into my house on the day my daughter is to be married, and you, uh, ask me to do murder for money.

Bonasera: I ask you for justice.

Don Corleone: That is not justice. Your daughter is still alive.

Bonasera: Let them suffer then, as she suffers. How much shall I pay you?

Don Corleone: Bonasera, Bonasera. What have I ever done to make you treat me so disrespectfully? If you'd come to me in friendship, then this scum that ruined your daughter would be suffering this very day. And if by chance an honest man like yourself should make enemies, then they would become my enemies. And then they would fear you.

Bonasera: Be my friend - - Godfather. [The Don shrugs. Bonasera bows toward the Don and kisses the Don's hand]

Don Corleone: Good. Someday, and that day may never come, I'll call upon you to do a service for me. But uh, until that day - accept this justice as a gift on my daughter's wedding day.

Bonasera: Grazie, Godfather.

Don Corleone: Prego.

[Natasha23]

It's a legal system, not a justice system.

[polluxlm]

Politics is what is wrong with the justice system, and society in general. Everybody in power are distracted by thoughts of votes, friendly services, rich and powerful influences, budgets and what not. Even the most honest and self disiplined person is having a hard time doing their job under the present circumstances. They may fight it for a while, but in the end they all give in or lose their job.

It's called establishment, an establishment based on greed and ego. Justice comes second, or third.

[SLCPUNK]

It's a legal system, not a justice system.

Ewww....me like.

[Surfrider]

Unfortunately, or fortunately, we live in a system where it is difficult to obtain convictions, and where we would rather let a guilty man walk than an innocent man be imprinsoned.? All you need is one juror that disagees with the prosecution's case.? Furthermore, many times the people that serve on juries are less educated than others an can fall victim to unprofessional tactics.?


Don't ruin your life just to ruin his life.

[supaplex]

Now can anyone, from the heart, say my actions would be unjustified? By your own measure of right.

Yeah, I'd say it's unjustified. I'm not saying that the guy wouldn't deserve it, but that your anger is pointed in the wrong direction.

Yes, we'd all like to take our own revenge against those who slight us. The very reason that we, as civilized people, have created justice systems to deal with these situations is because if the creation of laws and dispensing of justice is left up to each individual it would be unbridled chaos. Obviously.

If the system has failed you (or, in this case, not even you but someone else that you feel the need to project your issues onto) then why are you still pointing your finger at the alledged rapist? Why not at the prosecutors or the investigators involved in the case? They failed you. Or maybe you think they did a good job? Then perhaps it was the intricacies of the law which failed you - harrass the legislature, make a case for the law being changed. That's justified.

But if all you're interested in is meteing out your own punishment for your own gratification then yes, it's completely unjustified. The guy isn't being punished for his crime, he's being punished for how you feel about it. As far as I'm aware, there's no law against hurting your feelings. And the moment that you decide to hand out your own punishment, you've overstepped your boundaries as a member of society. You become a criminal in your own right, and just as dangerous to the rest of us as the rapist. If you can't see that, or don't care about it, then you're already a danger to us and a lot closer to the rapist - you're both sociopaths.You both flaunt the rules of civilized conduct to get what you want, both spit in the face of social ethics for personal satisfaction.

i'm sorry but i'm with sin cut on this.
what if it was your mother or brother or wife/husband or child. and what if you'd see the fucker walk like nothing happened free because the legal system has failed. yes, maybe i would be in the same league with him if i'd beat the shit out of him but at least he'll stop doing what he's doing. but if he escapes once and walks free without any punishment he'll be more confident and he'll do it again because he knows he can.

yes, i should point my finger at the failed system but i shouldn't forget who did the wrong in the first place. pointing the finger at the authorities still won't punish the real guilty person.

[Sin Cut]

I think you missed something. The guy has a long criminal record and they take his word over a 16 year old girl. Btw the  guy was 21 at that time.

Also they let the dog walk free after it had "bit" someone and it does it again.

I must just say; great work.

As for someone who wrote that my anger is directed in the wrong direction; sure I feel angry about this, even more angry that they let him walk the first time and now there's two girls with horrible memories. Most of all I feel disapointed that the authorities can't get justice done and take away the feeling of security from those girls. Do you really think they didn't have nightmares, or have the guts to walk down alone at the evening down an empty street. How do you think they react when they meet some guy? Do they fear the worst? Do they shut their social lives down?

And this all happened in a small town with only 20.000 of inhabitants.

If nothing else, think that it was your sister that was raped, or mother, hell, even your brother.

I'm also with supaplex with the fact that some things don't go unpunished, and with that the raper's confidence, if not totally shot, will be brought down a big notch. The guy won't boast about it to his friends anymore. He won't laugh how the "bitch" got what she deserved.

And 25 just call me a sociopath, I assume most of people who don't have the guts to take action do.

Was I a sociopath those times I interfered when a man was hitting his gf? Was I a sociopath when he had all ready hit her and I interfred and he hit me? After that I took him out by hitting him seven times to the head? Just enough of times to get him out of the fight. And while doing this, it could've been me who got beat up. So what?

Would you have just called the cops?
Do you think they would've got there in time?

What about when a guy had forced himself to kiss a girl and had put his hand under the girl shirt, and she was crying. Most of the people just walked by and I still don't understand why. I made him leave, not by pretty words, but with a promise he'll wake up in a hospital if he don't.

Now I might be a sociopath to you, but I have the thanks of all those three girls and one girl's bf saw me at the bar and bought me soome drinks as thanks.

And after all laws are made by people, and people make mistakes.

If a someone shoplifts and never gets caught.
and another guy gets caught everytime, which one do you think would shoplift more?

If every rapist would be beaten hospitalized by someone the raped girl knew, I think there would be a lesson learned.
Now if only we could hospitalize them BEFORE the act.

And there's a big difference about a guy raping a girl and someone beating someone for raping a girl.

If someone was trying to rape my gf and a someone would interfere, he would have my thanks.
If someone would've raped my gf and someone would get to the raper before me, again he would have my thanks.

[25]

And 25 just call me a sociopath, I assume most of people who don't have the guts to take action do.

Was I a sociopath those times I interfered when a man was hitting his gf? Was I a sociopath when he had all ready hit her and I interfred and he hit me? After that I took him out by hitting him seven times to the head? Just enough of times to get him out of the fight. And while doing this, it could've been me who got beat up. So what?

Would you have just called the cops?
Do you think they would've got there in time?

Not all of your apples can grow up to be oranges. You're comparing two different things. The example you gave there is someone preventing a crime as it happens, that's commendable. Beating on some guy who may or may not have done something to someone else at some previous time isn't quite the same thing, is it?  Tell you what, you follow the guy around for the rest of your life and if he tries to rape someone you can go ahead and step in. Otherwise, we're taking away your superhero licence.