How can justice system be this wrong?

[supaplex]

Beating on some guy who may or may not have done something to someone else at some previous time isn't quite the same thing, is it?  Tell you what, you follow the guy around for the rest of your life and if he tries to rape someone you can go ahead and step in. Otherwise, we're taking away your superhero licence.

sin cut said the girl was very close to him. so he really did what she said. it wasn't like you said, "he may or may not", he rally did and walked free.

[25]

Beating on some guy who may or may not have done something to someone else at some previous time isn't quite the same thing, is it?  Tell you what, you follow the guy around for the rest of your life and if he tries to rape someone you can go ahead and step in. Otherwise, we're taking away your superhero licence.

sin cut said the girl was very close to him. so he really did what she said. it wasn't like you said, "he may or may not", he rally did and walked free.

Not that it would change my stance on the issue either way, I'm still not going to leap to the conclusion that what he's saying is an entirely factual representation of the situation. He wasn't a witness to whatever happened and as he said, the girl is a friend of his and there's a lower standard of evidence required between friends.   That's all irrelevant though, I have no emotional stake in the story so I'm not inclined to get too involved in it beyond the hypothetical argument being played out.

[Sin Cut]

And 25 just call me a sociopath, I assume most of people who don't have the guts to take action do.

Was I a sociopath those times I interfered when a man was hitting his gf? Was I a sociopath when he had all ready hit her and I interfred and he hit me? After that I took him out by hitting him seven times to the head? Just enough of times to get him out of the fight. And while doing this, it could've been me who got beat up. So what?

Would you have just called the cops?
Do you think they would've got there in time?

Not all of your apples can grow up to be oranges. You're comparing two different things. The example you gave there is someone preventing a crime as it happens, that's commendable. Beating on some guy who may or may not have done something to someone else at some previous time isn't quite the same thing, is it?  Tell you what, you follow the guy around for the rest of your life and if he tries to rape someone you can go ahead and step in. Otherwise, we're taking away your superhero licence.

haha 

But I can keep my batmobile anyway, right?

This is not about what someone might have done, since it's obvious he did, or is it just an coincidence he happens to rape another 16 year old girl about a month after?

Also this proves mine and supaplex's point and this could've been avoided if someone met him on an empty street. Hell. Let it even be a crowded one. I volunteer. And if he's such a man he rapes someone, surely he got the guts to step in a fight. No I don't think so either.

Beating someone in this situation is similar that he would've be fined or something from rape, and I don't think the sentence and the severity of the crime ever meets in these kind of circumstances. Think it as a penalty. And again think that the victim is someone you know and not a statistic.

Also if he's taught a lesson in pain and made clear that if he ever does it again makes, he got an another dose coming. Is that such a bad thing. And this is a situation law always fails, even if someone is found guilty. Or do you know any cases where the raper has got a just sentence? I don't.

In a matter of fact the guy should be raped with a batton, beaten and pissed on.

[supaplex]

Beating on some guy who may or may not have done something to someone else at some previous time isn't quite the same thing, is it?  Tell you what, you follow the guy around for the rest of your life and if he tries to rape someone you can go ahead and step in. Otherwise, we're taking away your superhero licence.

sin cut said the girl was very close to him. so he really did what she said. it wasn't like you said, "he may or may not", he rally did and walked free.

Not that it would change my stance on the issue either way, I'm still not going to leap to the conclusion that what he's saying is an entirely factual representation of the situation. He wasn't a witness to whatever happened and as he said, the girl is a friend of his and there's a lower standard of evidence required between friends.   That's all irrelevant though, I have no emotional stake in the story so I'm not inclined to get too involved in it beyond the hypothetical argument being played out.

usually between friends there is a thing called trust. there would be no reason for her to lie if they are close friends.

and because nobody else saw it doesn't mean it didn't happen like you said. given that statement i could beat the shit out of him on a dark alley without any witnesses and it would mean it didn't happen because nobody saw it. so i won't be a sociopath and he won't be a rapist because nobody saw it. and all that remains is a girl with a trauma for the rest of her life scared to walk alone on a street because the people who were supposed to protect her were incapable of doing their job.

[25]

Beating someone in this situation is similar that he would've be fined or something from rape, and I don't think the sentence and the severity of the crime ever meets in these kind of circumstances. Think it as a penalty. And again think that the victim is someone you know and not a statistic.

Also if he's taught a lesson in pain and made clear that if he ever does it again makes, he got an another dose coming. Is that such a bad thing. And this is a situation law always fails, even if someone is found guilty. Or do you know any cases where the raper has got a just sentence? I don't.

Your argument is wrong from the ground up because it's based on a faulty assumption; A serial rapist (which is what you're presenting the guy as) is not going to think twice about committing a rape just because you assaulted him. Sure, if you turned up at the scene of every rape attempt and beat him up he'd probably quit but getting a beating at some later time isn't going to effect his behaviour, especially if his behaviour is habitual. He'd know that he got beaten up by some guy who knew a girl he raped, so he'd know that he could go rape a complete stranger to you and have no fear of reprisal from you. So your attempted justification crumbles under even a meek inspection.

Also; We define a "just" sentence by setting the sentencing parameters through legislature. If you disagree with the law, ask them to change it. If you feel strongly about it, lobby for them to change it. And if you feel passionate about it then run for office and try to change it yourself. But if all the action you intend to take is to sit there and complain about it, stop pretending to care so much. Harsh, but  fair.

[25]

and because nobody else saw it doesn't mean it didn't happen like you said.

I said no such thing. In fact, I explicitly said that I wasn't going to get involved in the intricacies of the story because I have no knowledge of it and no stake in it.  We're not even talking about the case, we're discussing sin's hypothetical connundrum.

[supaplex]

i don't think sin cut presented him like a serial rapist, maybe i missed something. even if he was a serial rapist he became serial because nobody stopped him so his confidence grew and grew. if sometime someone steps up to him it could take away that confidence and he'll think twice before trying again. it will plant the seed of fear and doubt inside him, fear and doubt that he probably did not experience before and maybe he'll stop.
he could try and rape a total stranger but now he knows that he could get the same treatment like last time.

and because nobody else saw it doesn't mean it didn't happen like you said.

I said no such thing. In fact, I explicitly said that I wasn't going to get involved in the intricacies of the story because I have no knowledge of it and no stake in it.  We're not even talking about the case, we're discussing sin's hypothetical connundrum.

I'm still not going to leap to the conclusion that what he's saying is an entirely factual representation of the situation. He wasn't a witness to whatever happened and as he said, the girl is a friend of his and there's a lower standard of evidence required between friends.

^ that statement solely implies that if he didn't see it he can't take action.

[25]

it will plant the seed of fear and doubt inside him, fear and doubt that he probably did not experience before and maybe he'll stop.
he could try and rape a total stranger but now he knows that he could get the same treatment like last time.

I don't think that rapists are spurred on by their deep inner feeling of self-confidence and empowerment, so I'm not sure what inspiring fear and doubt in someone who commits a power-and-gratification giving crime is going to achieve. I think that both of the statements you made there suggest an overly simplified view of both the nature of rape (or even crime in general) as well as cause and effect. As well as people in general. Seriously.

[25]

I'm still not going to leap to the conclusion that what he's saying is an entirely factual representation of the situation. He wasn't a witness to whatever happened and as he said, the girl is a friend of his and there's a lower standard of evidence required between friends.

^ that statement solely implies that if he didn't see it he can't take action.

No, it implies that I'm not going to expect him to present us with all of the facts because there's no way that he can know them for sure, and that I'm not going to expect him to care about the facts because this happened to a friend of his so he's entitled to not care much about the facts.

For why he can't "take action," see; All of my other posts.

[supaplex]

rapists are not spurred on by their confidence. but as they continue to do it and every time they get away with it they won't stop. it's like finding a magic formula. but if someone steps in he might think twice.

[supaplex]

No, it implies that I'm not going to expect him to present us with all of the facts because there's no way that he can know them for sure, and that I'm not going to expect him to care about the facts because this happened to a friend of his so he's entitled to not care much about the facts.

For why he can't "take action," see; All of my other posts.

maybe he doesn't know all the facts but if a close friend comes to you and says: "somebody raped me" i don't think you'd start asking for too much detail. but i'm confident that wasn't the solely thing sin cut based his decision on.

[25]

rapists are not spurred on by their confidence. but as they continue to do it and every time they get away with it they won't stop. it's like finding a magic formula. but if someone steps in he might think twice.

Then explain why rapists can be caught, go to prison, end up in maximum-maximum security because the other inmates beat the crap out of them, do fifteen years inside and then rape again as soon as they get out of prison. THey didn't get away with it, someone stepped in. They went to prison. They got their beatings. And they rape again. How does that fit into your world view?

[25]

maybe he doesn't know all the facts but if a close friend comes to you and says: "somebody raped me" i don't think you'd start asking for too much detail.

Which is why I said that I don't expect him to, and why I said that was justified. This is a non-argument, so stop bringing it up. I have no interest in debating either the facts behind the story or sin's perspective. That's his prerogative, and none of my/your/our business.

[supaplex]

so let's not send rapists to prison anymore because they might get out and do it again.
i should let him walk away based on that? i'm sorry but i couldn't do that.

[25]

so let's not send rapists to prison anymore because they might get out and do it again.
i should let him walk away based on that? i'm sorry but i couldn't do that.

No, I think you'll find that my official stance is; Let's send them to prison and keep them there. That's where they tend to do the least damage. If guilty men are being acquitted, let's raise the standards of investigation so that we get more convictions. And if they aren't staying in prison long enough, let's change the law so that longer sentences are mandatory. I think that's a good platform.

And, side note; Let's not run around being vigilanttes. There's no point in going to prison yourself because you beat on a rapist (who will still be on the outside, having fun). That makes no sense. 

[Sin Cut]

rapists are not spurred on by their confidence. but as they continue to do it and every time they get away with it they won't stop. it's like finding a magic formula. but if someone steps in he might think twice.

Then explain why rapists can be caught, go to prison, end up in maximum-maximum security because the other inmates beat the crap out of them, do fifteen years inside and then rape again as soon as they get out of prison. THey didn't get away with it, someone stepped in. They went to prison. They got their beatings. And they rape again. How does that fit into your world view?

Now that sure would make my world a happier place, send 'em to prison, have them beat up, have them be someone's prison bitch, not THERE's some justice served right there!

But just make them be there for ten years.

As for one other thing, isn't it a fact that rapist seldom go after their sex-drive, but the need to prove themselves and overpower someone. They need their dose of power. And isn't it just that, you power someone down and stick your dick in that poor girl and enjoy the sobbing.

Sorry, I just can't let anything like this slide.
If my friend comes to me and says "A friend of mine was raped last night, I know who did it, let's go and have a chat will we?" I would say I'm in without thinking twice.

So correct me if I'm wrong, when a raper rapes someone, 'cos he want's to feel he got power or any sick need he needs to satisfy, now if I'd take them power from him and make him beg me to stop and make clear I'll be sticking in town for a while. Now, you see, it ain't that bad, my fist'll be my tools and him begging me to stop will be the happy ending.

As a fact the girls little brother was beaten by that guy and his friends when on his way from school, because she pressed charges.

[Sin Cut]

so let's not send rapists to prison anymore because they might get out and do it again.
i should let him walk away based on that? i'm sorry but i couldn't do that.

No, I think you'll find that my official stance is; Let's send them to prison and keep them there. That's where they tend to do the least damage. If guilty men are being acquitted, let's raise the standards of investigation so that we get more convictions. And if they aren't staying in prison long enough, let's change the law so that longer sentences are mandatory. I think that's a good platform.

And, side note; Let's not run around being vigilanttes. There's no point in going to prison yourself because you beat on a rapist (who will still be on the outside, having fun). That makes no sense. 

That's true. I'd love them to have longer sentences.

But that doesn't change the orginal topic of unjustice and that fucker walking free.

Anyway I'll check how this thread does later, I need to go and do some last minute tinkering on my breaks before doing some xmas time visits.

[25]

Sorry, I just can't let anything like this slide.
If my friend comes to me and says "A friend of mine was raped last night, I know who did it, let's go and have a chat will we?" I would say I'm in without thinking twice.

So correct me if I'm wrong, when a raper rapes someone, 'cos he want's to feel he got power or any sick need he needs to satisfy, now if I'd take them power from him and make him beg me to stop and make clear I'll be sticking in town for a while. Now, you see, it ain't that bad, my fist'll be my tools and him begging me to stop will be the happy ending.

Well, as far as Bronsonesque macho posturing goes, C+. But you flunk Badass Theory, "Hulk SMASH!" is so 40 years ago.  And if you don't intend to think twice, why aren't we hearing your victory cry yet? Seems to me that you've already thought once (technically) so why haven't you followed through?


Just for fun; How old are you sin? Same question to suitor #2, supaplex.

[supaplex]

so let's not send rapists to prison anymore because they might get out and do it again.
i should let him walk away based on that? i'm sorry but i couldn't do that.

No, I think you'll find that my official stance is; Let's send them to prison and keep them there. That's where they tend to do the least damage. If guilty men are being acquitted, let's raise the standards of investigation so that we get more convictions. And if they aren't staying in prison long enough, let's change the law so that longer sentences are mandatory. I think that's a good platform.

And, side note; Let's not run around being vigilanttes. There's no point in going to prison yourself because you beat on a rapist (who will still be on the outside, having fun). That makes no sense. 

i agree with you on the "let's keep them there" stance as you can read on my first or second post in the thread. i wouldn't mind if he'd go to prison for a long long time.
i said i agree with beating him up because sin cut said he walked free.

to answer the age question, i'm 22. maybe you'll say i'm young and i'll grow up up and change my views, but, for now, i live in a country where for the right amount of money you can do what the hell you want and walk free. hopefully that will change. so i'm sorry if i think that taking the matter in my own hands could solve something but that's how i think.

[25]

to answer the age question, i'm 22. maybe you'll say i'm young and i'll grow up up and change my views, but, for now, i live in a country where for the right amount of money you can do what the hell you want and walk free. hopefully that will change. so i'm sorry if i think that taking the matter in my own hands could solve something but that's how i think.

Well, I wasn't going to bag on you for your age ( I'm only in my mid-twenties so I'm hardly able to loft that over you) I'm just trying to understand your perspective a little better. It just seems to me that both you and sin have a very narrow view of this particular situation, one that I can't really fathom.