poltics of this board

[jarmo]

jarmo here is your problem
I disagree with something the band says and instead of disagreeing with that and respecting that you call me a liar. Gee I wonder why you think I am negative. If you just disagreed and moved on stuff like this would not happen. But to get the whole truth you have to look at both sides and not just one but you think  everything not coming from the band is a lie, which we all know its not

My problem is people who think they're better fans than others because they registered before them.

I called you a liar because you claim Axl didn't write the letter. That's a lie.

I didn't call you a liar because you choose to believe whatever a newspaper printed.

There's a slight difference.


I tend to think that people in (or working for) the band have a better idea of what's going on than most of us posting here. I don't assume we're constantly being lied to by the band.

I don't take what newspapers or authorities say as the truth.

I don't call people liars because something they wished for didn't happen.

You obviously have your own definition of what a fan is but that doesn't mean it is correct. I used to think like you when I was a young teenager, but then I grew up and realized that my "heros" are flawed, human, beings just like the rest of us and it's okay to criticize them just like you would anyone else. It doesn't make you less of a fan. It just means you don't blindly support someone.

Umm, I think you misunderstood what I said.

Of course they're only human. You keep assuming I'm stupid... That's nice.

The fact is that GNR has been surrounded by a lot of negativity over the past decade or so. So it is completely natural for a fan to have a negative reaction when something bad happens because in the past they would have been correct. GNR are working hard to improve that image and they are doing a good job so far, but they have a long way to go before the bad memories are erased. Not to mention that the band isn't going to be 100% honest with us all of the time. I don't mean that as a slam, it's just a simple fact of the business. People in the business spin all the time. So of course people are going to be wondering what is true or not, especially

Yeah, I know.

But in a time when we should look ahead and be thankful that we have gotten alot from the band during 2006. We have some people trying to bring everybody else down.

I know people in business spin things, but why can't you admit that the media isn't always telling the truth? Tabloids sell issues with gossip, scandals and speculation.

They're not always doing enough research for their "objective" articles...

Yet so many people assume the media is right, the band is lying....




/jarmo

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Again Jarmo because I think axl didnt write the letter doesnt make me a liar. I love how you jump to that. Merck wrote a lot of axls press releases, that happens with all bands. Even you know that but you wont admit it because then you would have to admit you were wrong to call me a liar.

[Acquiesce]

Has

He used to be enthusiastic. I know that myself.

I remember when he was being made fun of becuse he was so into the band.


Nowadays he spends his time complaining about the band lies to him all the time.

Well, it must be frustrating to support be passionate about something like he was to be disappointed at every single turn. I can't blame him for being skeptical, especially when some inconsistancies are more than obvious.

So just because he starts thinking he's being lied to by the band he's using his brain and those of us who think otherwise aren't?

That's nice....

My intention wasn't to say those who disagree aren't using their brains. I honestly didn't mean it to sound that way. From where I sit, I just see Dave looking at the band in a much more objective manner than he has in the past and suddenly he is being treated like a troll. That's not right. I just don't think it's healthy for someone to blindly support anyone, but ?these people are celebrated, yet when somene tries to bring intelligent debate they are scorned and threatened. ?Why is that wrong? Why is it wrong for Dave to bring up a blatant inconsistancy he noticed?

[chineseblues]

Again Jarmo because I think axl didnt write the letter doesnt make me a liar. I love how you jump to that. Merck wrote a lot of axls press releases, that happens with all bands. Even you know that but you wont admit it because then you would have to admit you were wrong to call me a liar.

Of course Axl didnt sit down and type the letter himself, he probably dictated what he wanted to say and then had his assistant type it all up. Thats not a big deal, it still doesn't mean he didnt write it. And why do you believe everything Merck is saying now? weren't you calling him a liar only mere weeks ago? 

[jarmo]

Well, it must be frustrating to support be passionate about something like he was to be disappointed at every single turn. I can't blame him for being skeptical, especially when some inconsistancies are more than obvious.

I could've understood his frustration in 2005...

The band is still on tour, we have a tentative release date..... Things are way better than in 2005 and he's disappointed now.

Makes no sense to me.

My intention wasn't to say those who disagree aren't using their brains. I honestly didn't mean it to sound that way. From where I sit, I just see Dave looking at the band in a much more objective manner than he has in the past and suddenly he is being treated like a troll. That's not right. I just don't think it's healthy for someone to blindly support anyone, but  these people are celebrated, yet when somene tries to bring intelligent debate they are scorned and threatened.  Why is that wrong? Why is it wrong for Dave to bring up a blatant inconsistancy he noticed?

If you read this thread, you'll see I have tried to tell him why I think his evidence is wrong. He has failed to acknowledge any of it.

Again Jarmo because I think axl didnt write the letter doesnt make me a liar. I love how you jump to that. Merck wrote a lot of axls press releases, that happens with all bands. Even you know that but you wont admit it because then you would have to admit you were wrong to call me a liar.

I know he wrote some of the press releases Dave.

But I have shown you more than once why I think you are wrong.


The fact still is, it didn't come from Merck, and you know it. Why would he send out a press release which states him being let go?


If you say something and it's not true, what does it make you? Your opion is based on false facts as far as I can tell.

You have no idea how that letter came to be.





/jarmo

[D]

This is great, this is better than any reality TV show.


I commend Jarmo for not dishing out any negative karma and for leaving this thread open.



Dave definitely isnt a hater or he never has been on here. He is that poster that would make u nauseous the way he'd defend Axl but now he is seriously pissed.


I think Beta is the reason Dave is so mad. the fact she called him a hater when Axl is the guy's biggest role model and hero.

To call Dave an Axl hater would be like calling me a Bon Jovi Hater.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

jarmo I said I thought axls lawyer wrote the press release. Merck wrote the template.
And you can THINK my evidence is wrong but it doesnt mean it is wrong. Just like it doesnt mean its true. But its an OPINION that axl didnt write it. I dont see why you are getting so mad because I think axl didnt write his press release. He never wrote most of the ones before this either.

[LordRazZ]

I can't help but make a comment.

1) Dave, you're a dumbass. Dark Vader? Dude. I don't know shit about Star Wars, and even I want to kick you in the nuts for that.

Yeah, that just about sums it up.

Oh, and you're giving me one hell of a laugh tonight. Really. All of you. I only wish I could meet Axl right at this second. Because I'm sure he'd be laughing his ass off too.

I mean, I've seen alot of shit over the years on this board, but this is just....sad and pathetic.

I mean really....


Dark Vader?

Oh yeah...and 90 percent of you need to get a life. See that fuzzy area behind and surrounding the message board? It's called reality.

The only one's that comment isn't directed to would be Jarmo, cause this is his shit, Beta, cause she's "with" the band, and gets paid for this shit, and Dave, because fuck knows there ain't a prayer in hell of that sorry bastard getting a life. And all this while I talk to him on MSN.

Oh...and Beta...nice to meet ya. I'm RazZ. Resident asshole. Don't worry, you won't hear much fighting from me anymore. I couldn't give two shits, honestly. You just let me know when that album is on the shelves, and I'll pick up a couple of copies.

Not that I'm being friendly to you or anything. I'd probably flip you off if I met you on the streets, simply because it's the courtesy I offer everyone I've ever met, period.

Have a nice day kids. Billy Idol rocks the shit..

[Acquiesce]

Umm, I think you misunderstood what I said.

Of course they're only human. You keep assuming I'm stupid... That's nice.

That's not my intention. I disagree with you on this subject but I know you are a very intelligent man.

Yeah, I know.

But in a time when we should look ahead and be thankful that we have gotten alot from the band during 2006. We have some people trying to bring everybody else down.

I know people in business spin things, but why can't you admit that the media isn't always telling the truth? Tabloids sell issues with gossip, scandals and speculation.

They're not always doing enough research for their "objective" articles...

Yet so many people assume the media is right, the band is lying....

I completely understand where you are coming from but not everyone is a "glass half full person" and I don't think they should be treated like they are trolls trying to ruin the party just because they have a different view on the situation. I can understand why someone would feel disappointed when most fans only care about CD and they were let down after being told it would be out in 06. You also have to remember not everyone is getting to see the band on this tour so the excitement level may not be the same for them.

No, you're right the media isn't always correct, but the same can be said for the band. They aren't going to be completely honest with us all of the time. That's just the way the business works.

[SLCPUNK]

This thread is great and everything???does anybody here like hummus? I?m really digging the stuff I bought at Ceviche last night! Who ever knew chic peas could be so damn good? (Dips bread back into hummus and chews like farm animal.)

[Gagarin]

Definition of lie:

1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood. ?
2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture


1. ?Dave's opinion that the letter was not directly penned by Axl Rose because something seemed "off" about it, is an opinion. ?True or untrue, it is an opinion. ?It cannot be a lie because there is no intent to deceive, Dave is presenting what he sees as truth. ?Dave is NOT suggesting a conspiracy theory by saying that it seemed like Axl didn't write it.

2. ?The Fire Marshall incident - Dave did not fabricate this. ?The firemarshall's story may have been fabircated or exagerated, but Dave relaying this does NOT make him a liar. ?Dave pointing out what he sees as inconsistancies in the band's version of the story does NOT make him a liar.

Call him something else, but "liar" is a very strong word. ?Dave hasn't done anything to decieve or CONTROL anything here. ?He's been a stable force on the forums for several years. ?His posts were WORTH reading.

Why does Dave have a negative attitude? ?Probably has more to do with being called a LIAR or a "attention whore" by people on this forum than it does with being upset by GNR. ?He's rather glad they put out a statement and that they are touring - you can plainly go and read that.

How sad is it to accuse someone of being an attention whore on a web forum? That's the idea - post something people want to read, and then they can reply to it. ?That's what Dave does. ?It's usually good stuff. ?What's there to get all "I'll ban you!" about? ?

Seems to me this "conflict" has been escalated by others, and not Dave. ?Dave freaking loves this band and the music (...who took Generalship on all the lyric threads?) ?- just because he posts things that disagree with official information - NOT intentionally spreading lies, but trying to fill things out - people want to get rid of him?

It's not like he posted lies about release dates and doctored pictures or told wild lies (things he KNEW to NOT be true) about anything.

A lie is when someone says something they know to be untrue, it isn't a lie just because someone is wrong.
Gah.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

You guys are taking this wayyyy too seriously. 

It's not a life or death issue.  There are worse things in the world than a Maine cancellation, or a band manager getting fired.  Time to move on.

[Gagarin]

You guys are taking this wayyyy too seriously.?

It's not a life or death issue.? There are worse things in the world than a Maine cancellation, or a band manager getting fired.? Time to move on.

No kidding!  "Celebrity" , "liar" , "martyr"...  he's just a guy posting opinions on some band msg board.

=)

[D]

It's not a life or death issue.? There are worse things in the world than a Maine cancellation, or a band manager getting fired.? Time to move on.

There are?

[GNFNRAXL]

This is great, this is better than any reality TV show.


I commend Jarmo for not dishing out any negative karma and for leaving this thread open.



Dave definitely isnt a hater or he never has been on here. He is that poster that would make u nauseous the way he'd defend Axl but now he is seriously pissed.


I think Beta is the reason Dave is so mad. the fact she called him a hater when Axl is the guy's biggest role model and hero.

To call Dave an Axl hater would be like calling me a Bon Jovi Hater.

You're a Bon Jovi hater.   

[2007what!]

when and where did beta call dave an axl hater?
i searched through her post but can't seem to find it.
btw i don't think beta chose this board by accident, there is a reason we are privilaged to have her presence here and that is the fact that this board is run in a positive way, free of hate and negativity.

[BabyGorilla]

1.  Dave's opinion that the letter was not directly penned by Axl Rose because something seemed "off" about it, is an opinion.  True or untrue, it is an opinion.

Dave does not present it as his opinion, he presents it as fact; just like when he says the band doesn't play TWAT because Ron can't play it, or that Chinese Democracy wasn't released because of Slash and Duff's lawsuit. The dude has always presented his conjecture as fact. Read any of his post and you will find that he almost never says "I think" or "In my opinion." Its not so much what he says, but rather his approach. He comes off as arrogant and condescending.

Dave says he has no problem with anybody disagreeing with him, but rather with people calling him a "liar." I think he just can't stand people disagreeing with him. Need proof? Go here: http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?showtopic=86782&hl=

"Dont ever doubt me again", "when I say something and people like im full of shit or its bullshit, its always proven true down the road."

Its cute that he now says it is only his opinion that Axl did not write the letter; however, two days ago he was saying it was a fact. He says, "I was proven true the next day, so I am going to point it out."

[dave-gnfnr2k]

when and where did beta call dave an axl hater?
i searched through her post but can't seem to find it.
btw i don't think beta chose this board by accident, there is a reason we are privilaged to have her presence here and that is the fact that this board is run in a positive way, free of hate and negativity.

She did in a PM to me. But  Iam not going to post it on here since PMs should not be posted on the forum.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

1.? Dave's opinion that the letter was not directly penned by Axl Rose because something seemed "off" about it, is an opinion.? True or untrue, it is an opinion.

Dave does not present it as his opinion, he presents it as fact; just like when he says the band doesn't play TWAT because Ron can't play it, or that Chinese Democracy wasn't released because of Slash and Duff's lawsuit. The dude has always presented his conjecture as fact. Read any of his post and you will find that he almost never says "I think" or "In my opinion." Its not so much what he says, but rather his approach. He comes off as arrogant and condescending.

Dave says he has no problem with anybody disagreeing with him, but rather with people calling him a "liar." I think he just can't stand people disagreeing with him. Need proof? Go here: http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?showtopic=86782&hl=

"Dont ever doubt me again", "when I say something and people like im full of shit or its bullshit, its always proven true down the road."

Its cute that he now says it is only his opinion that Axl did not write the letter; however, two days ago he was saying it was a fact. He says, "I was proven true the next day, so I am going to point it out."

Again here you go with that bullshit I present my opinion as fact. You dont have to write IMO before every post. I also NEVER said that CD is not out because of the slash and duff lawsuit. Dont make up shit. Remember my old sign I had for two years? I? had it for people like you. I said before all my statements there should be an IMO, that way people like? you cant claim this nonesense.? That is like saying someone that claims WTTJ is the best rock song ever, them bashing them beause they are stating it as fact because they didnt put IMO before it. I find it funny I took that off a week ago and now you bring up this stupid argument again.

Yeah too bad you misssed the deleted posts in the other thread when I talked about it the night before and that person said I was full of shit and a liar when I said I dont think Axl wrote the letter. But of course you wont tell the whole story and did not even mention that. There? you go again never showing all the facts. So typically.

Also I did say that I did not think Axl wrote the letter and merck proved that I was right, but of? course that letter cannot be posted on this forum, so in this forums eyes it does not exist. That is why its so funny how I pointed out the incosisteneces of the letter, and when merck pretty much said the axl letter was taken from his blue print I am? still a Liar when i pointed out how I was right that Axl did not write it.?

[axlrosegnr]

wow.......I can't believe this thread is still going. I just woke up, it's 9:15 am, and I'm already laughing. Thanks guys