"Catcher In The Rye" - Discussions

[axlsalinger]

Wow, the Beatles (and Lennon in particular) are right up there with Guns n' Roses as my two favourite bands, and J.D. Salinger is my favourite author. Plus I am a huge Queen fan, so how could I not love this song? It definitely sounds very 70's, with a Queen influence for sure. The finished version of this song is going to sound awesome.

For anyone interested in a little backstory, J.D. Salinger used to write short stories published in New Yorker magazine (among others) in the 40's, 50's and 60's. He published 4 books, one is called Nine Stories (9 short stories), and two are comprised of of a pair of lengthy short stories or novellas previously published in magazines. And then there is his one novel, published in 1951 called Catcher in the Rye. ?It's my favourite book, and a lot of people agree and identify with Holden Caulfield (the lead character). It is one of those rare books that kinda changes the way you look at things. Most readers get what this book is about (a discussion for another place), but a few people with twisted minds have latched onto this book in a very strange way.

Here's the description from amazon.com:

Since his debut in 1951 as The Catcher in the Rye, Holden Caulfield has been synonymous with "cynical adolescent." Holden narrates the story of a couple of days in his sixteen-year-old life, just after he's been expelled from prep school, in a slang that sounds edgy even today and keeps this novel on banned book lists. It begins,

"If you really want to hear about it, the first thing you'll probably want to know is where I was born and what my lousy childhood was like, and how my parents were occupied and all before they had me, and all that David Copperfield kind of crap, but I don't feel like going into it, if you want to know the truth. In the first place, that stuff bores me, and in the second place, my parents would have about two hemorrhages apiece if I told anything pretty personal about them."

His constant wry observations about what he encounters, from teachers to phonies (the two of course are not mutually exclusive) capture the essence of the eternal teenage experience of alienation.

Salinger published his last short story in 1968 entitled "Hapworth 16, 1924". Since then, he has stayed mostly at his New Hampshire home, refusing any public comment, and has lived as a complete recluse, and hasn't published a thing, although supposedly he has always continued writing. He has only been photographed a few times since then (sound familiar?!). This is him as a young man, and later startled by a photographer, I think it happened in a parking lot in the 80's. He is still alive today at the age of 87.



It sounds like this song is about Mark David Chapman, the guy who shot John Lennon on December 8, 1980. He apparently hung around the Dakota Building where John lived for several days, even stopping John for an autograph earlier on Dec. 8 and asking another fan to take a picture (see photo below). Lennon returned from a recording session sometime after 10pm, and was shot multiple times while entering the Dakota. Lennon was rushed to the hospital, but died shortly after arrival. After the shooting, Chapman stood off in the grass a few feet away reading Catcher in the Rye until the police arrested him several minutes later. He is still in jail (see link at bottom). A few other "assassins" have been affected by this book as well, there is a plotline about this in the movie "Conspiracy Theory" with Mel Gibson and Julia Roberts.



http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1005041chapman1.html

[SLCPUNK]

It sounds like this song is about Mark David Chapman, the guy who shot John Lennon on December 8, 1980. He apparently hung around the Dakota Building where John lived for several days, even stopping John for an autograph earlier on Dec. 8 and asking another fan to take a picture (see photo below). Lennon returned from a recording session sometime after 10pm, and was shot multiple times while entering the Dakota. Lennon was rushed to the hospital, but died shortly after arrival. After the shooting, Chapman stood off in the grass a few feet away reading Catcher in the Rye until the police arrested him several minutes later. He is still in jail (see link at bottom). A few other "assassins" have been affected by this book as well, there is a plotline about this in the movie "Conspiracy Theory" with Mel Gibson and Julia Roberts.



http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1005041chapman1.html

Hearing the song and looking at that picture is eerie now.............

[Mr.Intensity]

Ohh, am I allowed to say I told you so............

looks like this song leaked 2 days after I thought it would.

[SLCPUNK]

Ohh, am I allowed to say I told you so............

looks like this song leaked 2 days after I thought it would.

Nobody cares.............

[0001001]

Great song!
I thought this song is about John Lennon, but reading the lyrics I can only find a few references to him. Can you tell me more?

[Andrew]

I dig it, thanks guys 

[metallex78]

Had a few listens and like the other new GN'R demos that have popped up, it's a real grower and takes a few listens to fully appreciate. Overall I'm getting a Yesterdays vibe, and even a bit of The Blues in there. There's plenty of Beatles influence too and that does sound like Brian May like everyone has said.

It's definitely a cool song

So now my tally of new GN'R songs (demos) stands as such:

1.TWAT
2. Better
3. CITR
4. IRS

[axlsalinger]

This is what Chapman had to say:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/classics4/chapman/

"Then this morning I went to the bookstore and bought The Catcher in the Rye. I?m sure the large part of me is Holden Caulfield, who is the main person in the book. The small part of me must be the Devil.

I went to the building. It?s called the Dakota. I stayed there until he came out and asked him to sign my album. At that point my big part won and I wanted to go back to my hotel, but I couldn?t. I waited until he came back. He came in a car. Yoko walked past first and I said hello, I didn?t want to hurt her.

Then John came and looked at me and printed me. I took the gun from my coat pocket and fired at him. I can?t believe I could do that. I just stood there clutching the book. I didn?t want to run away. I don?t know what happened to the gun. I remember Jose kicking it away. Jose was crying and telling me to please leave. I felt so sorry for Jose. Then the police came and told me to put my hands on the wall and cuffed me."

Statement of Mark David Chapman to police at 1 a.m., Dec. 9, 1980, three hours after the murder of John Lennon.

"And I will not appeal any decision you have. If it?s a decision to keep me here in the prison, I will not appeal it, and I never will. I?d like the opportunity to apologize to Mrs. Lennon. I?ve thought about what it?s like in her mind to be there that night, to see the blood, to hear the screams, to be up all night with the Beatle music playing through her apartment window. ?

And there?s something else I want to say. I feel that I see John Lennon now not as a celebrity. I did then. I saw him as a cardboard cutout on an album cover. I was very young and stupid, and you get caught up in the media and the records and the music. And now I ? I?ve come to grips with the fact that John Lennon was a person. This has nothing to do with being a Beatle or a celebrity or famous. He was breathing, and I knocked him right off his feet, and I don?t feel because of that I have any right to be standing on my feet here, you know, asking for anything. I don?t have a leg to stand on because I took his right out from under him, and he bled to death. And I?m sorry that ever occurred.

And I want to talk about Mrs. Lennon again. I can?t imagine her pain. I can?t feel it. I?ve tried to think about what it would be like if somebody harmed my family, and there?s just no way to make up for that, and if I have to stay in prison the rest of my life for that one person?s pain, everybody else to the side for a second, just that one person?s pain, I will. ?

Again, I?m not saying these things for ? for you to give me any kind of consideration for letting me go. I?m saying that because they are real, and it happened to me, and I felt her pain then, and I can honestly say I didn?t want to feel it up until then. It?s a horrible thing to, you know, realize what you?ve done."

Statement of Mark David Chapman to the New York? Parole Board, Oct. 3, 2000

[Mr. Sinister]

After listening to it several times, here's how it lays down for me. I'm including OMG, as Axl seemed to indicate that it was demo - So I'll group it with the others.

1) There Was a Time
2) Catcher in the Rye
3) Oh My God
4) Better
5) IRS

[axlsalinger]

Evidently there are 2 versions, one is 5:30 and the other 5:37.

I would list them this way (although "Oh My God" had a helluva production for a demo!)

1 - Better
2 - There Was a Time
3 - Catcher in the Rye
4 - Oh My God
5 - IRS

[metallex78]

Just going off topic for a second, isn't it funny how IRS has gone to the bottom of everyone's lists in little over a week?
I think once the initial reaction of "it's new GN'R" wears off, the songs do too.

Still love TWAT, Better, and CITR is sounding pretty damn good too.

[axlsalinger]

By the way, I remember hearing Axl had said at some point that 'Catcher in the Rye' would not be on Chinese Democracy, but was slated for the 2nd or 3rd album instead. Was this just a rumour, or does anyone have an actual quote?

[erose]

it's a nice little tune, sort of in the lane of don't cry maybe only more varied.

and the lyrics are really heavy as all the new songs imo.

Who the fuck said this wasn't rock n' roll btw?

Is this a tune without bucket or is it he that does that shit at 2.02? Could be some pittman stuff too i guess... or dizzy... at least there's no obvious bucket soloing or riffing...

sorry if this has been discussed but i didn't bother going through 20 pages....

edit: i see now how people think it is may and i agree. defenetly no bucket in this one.... i don't see how it's really queen influeced tho(besides may ofcourse), can someone explain please?

[EccoTides]

Just going off topic for a second, isn't it funny how IRS has gone to the bottom of everyone's lists in little over a week?
I think once the initial reaction of "it's new GN'R" wears off, the songs do too.

Still love TWAT, Better, and CITR is sounding pretty damn good too.

It is indeed interesting... I still consider IRS to be alright, but the only part I can honestly say that I love would be Axl's phenomenal scream at the end.

Catcher in the Rye and the others you mentioned just sound so much more interesting and energetic musically, to my ears at least. 

[Grouse]

I'm one of the biggest queen fans there is and I do not like this song it sounds very average to me.
I Don't know how people can say this sounds anything like queen it may have been influenced by queen but it sure as hell doesn't sound like a queen song to me more liek the beatles, and I don't really know if it's Brain playing because yeah, it's his style but it doesn't really have his characteristic tone.

[Wooody]

Can someone post the lyrics ?

[Janabis]

By the way, I remember hearing Axl had said at some point that 'Catcher in the Rye' would not be on Chinese Democracy, but was slated for the 2nd or 3rd album instead. Was this just a rumour, or does anyone have an actual quote?

I hate to spread rumours because there are way too many of them around, but I know about this one first hand so for what it's worth, after the MSG '02 gig, a girl from Rio who I went to the show with briefly met Axl at the aftershow party along with Mike Piazza and some others. At that time he said they were preparing three albums and that Catcher in the Rye wasn't being planned for Chinese Democracy, but of course this could all have changed 4 years later. Catcher in the Rye came up in the conversation because people on the net were falsely rumouring it to be a new single back then as well, so she asked about it.

[jimmythegent]

Lots of potential there I agree.. Definitely a 70's rock vibe and I like the synth breakdown alot

I have to agree with what Booker said in his post about these demos having too many electronic beats - to me, that will date fast and the songs are strong enough that they dont need it

I was struck with Axls smooth delivery on this new leak, he sounded pretty good. I think it sounds a little formless and rough here, and it loses stride towards the end, but a complete version could be a very good song indeed

The makings of a very strong, if not extremly diverse album is definitley taking shape...

[SWINGTRADER]

Catcher in the Rye  will probably be in 2nd record     Axl Rose  said this  after the MSG performance in 2002 .

[badapple81]

I can really feel The Beatles influence here.

My first reaction upon my first listen is a nice tune, no better and no worse. It might grow on me like TWAT did.

Chinese Democracy is clearly going to be a mixed bag with something for everyone and probably a few some won't really be into.