The Chinese Democracy Songwriting process...

[MotherGooseLuvR]

It's shrouded in mystery.  Has anyone read any interviews that discuss how Axl and the band goes about writing songs for the album?  Like do they jam in a studio, or are there a few key songwriters in the band who contribute the riffs/changes while Axl works more on melody, lyrics and arrangement?

I have a strong feeling that CHRIS PITMAN has a lot to do with CD songwriting.  When the album is released, I'm sure a lot of people are going to be surprised to see how crucial Pitman is to the songwriting/recording process.

[CheapJon]

i think someone, prolly fortus said in an e-mail that all the words (that means lyrics) on the album is written by axl, and as most already know finck is the man behind "better"

[Malcolm]

I remember in 2002 on muchmusic Tommy and Dizzy were interviewed backstage while the band was in Toronto and they said theyd never seen anyone do it that way, they kick the songs around the room and everyone puts there own touch on it and they bash it out until they get something they like

[Neemo]

from what we know...cd was peiced together mostly by Axl from thousands of soundclips and ideas from the band members and other peopel who were brought into the studio.

i think this is why the CD has taken so long to come out...it's not been written conventionally...like the band going in and recording tunes....everybody does their shit separate and it's been peiced together

edit...almost like malcolm posted

[MotherGooseLuvR]

But don't you think Pitman probably plays a bigger role in the writing/recording process than the other guys.  Except for Axl, of course.

[Neemo]

why would he?

unfortunately nobody knows shit .... it's all guesses ... you could be right

[Wicked Demon]

I wish I had the article, but there were some quotes from Axl about it. He said he prefers that the music is solid first and then to put words to it after as "just one man against this wall of music" or something like that. If I remember correctly, he said that is more how AFD's material was written, and how the new material is being written. With UYI, some songs were written words and ideas first, and made it difficult to finish a song.

He also said something like, "I could go on writing a bunch of poetry very easily, but without great music, what do you have?"

[EstrangedReality]

why would he?

unfortunately nobody knows shit .... it's all guesses ... you could be right

I agree with J'Mo. The synth is playing a rather prominent role in what we've heard already - listen to The Blues from 2002 or Madagascar or IRS from Rock in Rio 5 (the shitty soundboard lets you hear the instruments more clearly since Axl's vocals are so low in the mix). There's a lot of synth on these songs!

[25]

I remember in 2002 on muchmusic Tommy and Dizzy were interviewed backstage while the band was in Toronto and they said theyd never seen anyone do it that way, they kick the songs around the room and everyone puts there own touch on it and they bash it out until they get something they like

Was it one of the producers or moby who said that in the beginning they'd sketch out the ideas for bits of songs and then move on, accumulating rough ideas until they were ready to flesh out a particular track? I got the impression that they repeat that process until they sort of finalise the song, so that they have a large number of tracks all progressing towards the finish line at varying pace until they're locked or eliminated.

While it seems to me that's how most bands work out songs, it seemed as though GNR approach it on a much larger scale, with scores of ideas being developed continuously, making it a much more nebulous sanity-stretching process.

[gokken]

But don't you think Pitman probably plays a bigger role in the writing/recording process than the other guys.  Except for Axl, of course.

Yeah, thats what I heard, I guess its because he is a awesome producer and songsriter that he is in the band.

[BeefyD]

God I hope so... At the Chicago show I swear he held one key on one of his keyboards for most of the night...
It'd be nice to know that he does more for the band than that..

[Lucky]

there was an interview in 2001/2002 where some details were revealed, but I dont remember exactly when...

it said that they all work on it...
and that thats one of the reasons behind the delays.
someone comes up with something, then someone adds something else, and then it goes back, gets redone, etc,etc...

also in 99 axl said that they are doing this diferently than the other albums...
like afd was mostly written riff, and lyrics first, then the music, uyis were lyrics then music, (or something like that)
and now, they first write music, and then the lyrics...

[25]

I wish I had the article, but there were some quotes from Axl about it. He said he prefers that the music is solid first and then to put words to it after as "just one man against this wall of music" or something like that. If I remember correctly, he said that is more how AFD's material was written, and how the new material is being written.

I find that particularly interesting, as the "music first" policy seems to be the least common approach in songwriting (admittedly based on a tiny reference sample of maybe a handful of people I've ever heard speak about it.) If I remember correctly, Trent Reznor used that approach on The Fragile and afterwards  said that it was incredibly difficult and that he wouldn't do it that way again (though given that The Fragile is head and shoulders above any of the NIN stuff before or since perhaps Reznor prefers an easy paycheck over quality results.) Nick Cave has, at various times, either roughly sketched the words/melody/structure of a song before having the rest of his band flesh it out or   crafted whole songs before taking them into the studio where the band merely supplements the arrangement. Tom waits, these days, begins recording his songs with only the vocals and and maybe one or two instruments before arranging the music around that frame. Axl Rose is, off the top of my head, the only person who espouses writing the melody/lyrics to a finished track as the best method. It seems to work pretty damn well for him, but I'd bet that it's probably one of the central reasons for this album taking so long to write and record. Still, I'd rather wait a decade knowing that someone is sweating balls over making a good album than get a GNR version of "With Teeth" every year or two.

[Wicked Demon]

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=28

"
I write the vocals last, because I wanted to invent the music first and push the music to the level that I had to compete against it. That's kind of tough. It's like you got to go in against these new guys who kicked ass. You finally got the song musically where you wanted to, and then you have to figure out how to go in and kick its ass and be one person competing against this wall of sound.

Why I chose to do it that way is that, you know, I can sit and write poetry 'til hell freezes over, and getting attached to any particular set of words... I felt that I would write to those words in a dated fashion, and we really wouldn't get the best music. "Oh My God" is a perfect example. When we finally got "Oh My God" where it needed to be, then I got the right words to it. With "Appetite," I wrote a lot of the words first, but in, like, "Oh My God," I wrote the words second, but the music was written like "Appetite." We kept developing it until it we got it right. [With] "Appetite," everything had been worked on, and worked on, and worked on. That was not the case with "Use Your Illusion."
"

[Lucky]

yeah, that's what I was referring to...

but I dont think that omg really illustrates it well.

[MotherGooseLuvR]

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=28

"
I write the vocals last, because I wanted to invent the music first and push the music to the level that I had to compete against it. That's kind of tough. It's like you got to go in against these new guys who kicked ass. You finally got the song musically where you wanted to, and then you have to figure out how to go in and kick its ass and be one person competing against this wall of sound.

Why I chose to do it that way is that, you know, I can sit and write poetry 'til hell freezes over, and getting attached to any particular set of words... I felt that I would write to those words in a dated fashion, and we really wouldn't get the best music. "Oh My God" is a perfect example. When we finally got "Oh My God" where it needed to be, then I got the right words to it. With "Appetite," I wrote a lot of the words first, but in, like, "Oh My God," I wrote the words second, but the music was written like "Appetite." We kept developing it until it we got it right. [With] "Appetite," everything had been worked on, and worked on, and worked on. That was not the case with "Use Your Illusion."
"

Yea, that sounds cool.  He's right... Oh My God came out way better than the stuff on AFD.  I wonder why he insists on playing AFD all the time and never Oh My God, since it's obviously far superior.

Oh well... If it ain't broke, don't fix it!  And Axl's songwriting process clearly ain't broke!!!

[dave-gnfnr2k]

The music was written first then the lyrics

[Continental Drift]

But don't you think Pitman probably plays a bigger role in the writing/recording process than the other guys.? Except for Axl, of course.

Yeah, thats what I heard, I guess its because he is a awesome producer and songsriter that he is in the band.

Agreed. Whenever CD ever does come the fuck out... I think it will be pretty apparent that Pitman plays a very important role in the band. I predict that Axl-Robin-Pitman are really the creative epicenter of the new band. Seems like Buckethead came in and added some really cool shit on top of everything else... but "on top of".... I think the foundation has always been Rose-Finck-Pitman.

[Lucky]

I wonder if there's a buckethead song.
I really look forward to hearing how he and axl worked out.
I'm a Finck fan, but Buckethead/Axl could really give some magic.

Also, from the looks of it, CD seems to be pretty much "pre 2000" concepts. I guess the 2nd and the 3rd are where Buckethead's influence is the biggest.

[MotherGooseLuvR]

I wonder if there's a buckethead song.
I really look forward to hearing how he and axl worked out.
I'm a Finck fan, but Buckethead/Axl could really give some magic.

Also, from the looks of it, CD seems to be pretty much "pre 2000" concepts. I guess the 2nd and the 3rd are where Buckethead's influence is the biggest.

Oh baby.  I'm counting the Tuesdays 'til they're released!!!