SAVE MART CENTER DECEMBER 13, 2006 CANCELLED

[estranged.1098]

Who cares about the "you" you speak of.

You should. You seem like one of them. 

lol. Regardless of myself, the point is that GNR shouldn't care about the negative people. I could never understand why Beta spends her time on this forum replying to negative people when she could be discussing interesting things with the people that still support this band. How many times did she do that?

I was in Portland after a seven hour bus ride from New York.

I didn't sit and dwell on it.

That's because you were given an explanation. If there wasn't one it would not have been normal for you to just accept it.

The customers that bought tickets for tomorrow's cancelled show deserve the same, and I'm sure they'll get it.

[EFISH]

Why would any artist cancel any show due to poor ticket sales?

Every ticket sold makes them money.  If a show gets cancelled, they don't get money from ticket sales.

Every bit of merchandise sold at a show makes them money.  If a show gets cancelled, they don't get money from merchandise sales.

And besides the money, there's the integrity factor.

I don't buy "poor ticket sales" as the reason for this cancellation.

I hope everyone in the band is okay.

This is a very good post and something I didnt think about.

edit: hmm, but dave might be right too  oh well...
 
BTW does anyone know why Axl walked off before PC?

[Axl&Baz07]

Why would any artist cancel any show due to poor ticket sales?

Every ticket sold makes them money. ?If a show gets cancelled, they don't get money from ticket sales.

Every bit of merchandise sold at a show makes them money. ?If a show gets cancelled, they don't get money from merchandise sales.

And besides the money, there's the integrity factor.

I don't buy "poor ticket sales" as the reason for this cancellation.

I hope everyone in the band is okay.

i agree with these points. ?low ticket sales seems like a lame reason to cancel the show! ?the 'integrity factor' alone, would make it worth playing!
the fans who would have gone to this show would have been able to spread the word about what a kick ass show GN'R put on... therefore leading to more ticket and merchandise sales for the other CA shows, and *cough* CD!!

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Why would any artist cancel any show due to poor ticket sales?

Every ticket sold makes them money.? If a show gets cancelled, they don't get money from ticket sales.

Every bit of merchandise sold at a show makes them money.? If a show gets cancelled, they don't get money from merchandise sales.

And besides the money, there's the integrity factor.

I don't buy "poor ticket sales" as the reason for this cancellation.

I hope everyone in the band is okay.

This is a very good post and something I didnt think about.

edit: hmm, but dave might be right too? oh well...
 
BTW does anyone know why Axl walked off before PC?

Here is an example. Lets say that it cost 1m to do a show, but due to poor tickets sales the band is only going to make 750,000 that is a 250,000 loss. Plus gnr always pay tons of late fees because they break curfew that is more money htey are going to lose.

[estranged.1098]

Why would any artist cancel any show due to poor ticket sales?

Every ticket sold makes them money.  If a show gets cancelled, they don't get money from ticket sales.

Every bit of merchandise sold at a show makes them money.  If a show gets cancelled, they don't get money from merchandise sales.

And besides the money, there's the integrity factor.

I don't buy "poor ticket sales" as the reason for this cancellation.

I hope everyone in the band is okay.

Because if they dont sell enought tix its not worth doing the show because the cost of the show will be more than how much they make for doing the show.

Yeah, but so what? I doubt they would disappoint their fans because of money.

Even if one or two shows end up costing them money, the other ones more than make up for it. This is Guns N' Roses we're talking about, they're not doing it for the money.

[MotherGooseLuvR]

Who cares about the "you" you speak of.

You should. You seem like one of them.?

lol. Regardless of myself, the point is that GNR shouldn't care about the negative people. I could never understand why Beta spends her time on this forum replying to negative people when she could be discussing interesting things with the people that still support this band. How many times did she do that?

I was in Portland after a seven hour bus ride from New York.

I didn't sit and dwell on it.

That's because you were given an explanation. If there wasn't one it would not have been normal for you to just accept it.

The customers that bought tickets for tomorrow's cancelled show deserve the same, and I'm sure they'll get it.

I respect Beta for having the guts to confront you so called "fans" that expect Axl and his band to be on their knees before you. ?Sucks that you didn't get an excuse for this particular cancelled show, but THAT'S FUCKIN' ROCK N' ROLL. ?I'm sure the Rolling Stones or the Beatles did this once or twice.

[polluxlm]

So it seems it was cancelled due to low ticket sales. Fair enough, one shouldn't expect any more without proper promotion or a new album on the shelves. I wonder what they will say in an eventual press release.

if you want to believe that, do it. I really dont know how you reach that conclusion, maybe you just wish that. I am not surprised: many so called GNR fans want GNR to fail.

GNR has sold out like 15 shows between Europe and USA. An average of 22.500 people went to see GNR in Europe without ''proper promotion'' and new album on the shelves and the expectation of fans in all the GNR community is bigger than EVER. GNR did like 50 awesome 2 hours shows with impressive setlists and performances in 20 countries and now we crucify Axl and the band for one (fourth) show cancelled? You dont need to know the real ressons: you will be believe what you want to believe. Jarmo is right in that: lots of people dont need reasons. They will say ''bullshit'' anyway because THAT is what they want to believe.

Im as sad as you because of this cancelation, but why daydream reasons?

You got to be kidding me. How arrogant and condescendive can one get? I know very well the facts of the tour, especially in Europe cause I fuckin live there and went to a show. But since GN'R isn't providing any explanations I'm only going by what the fans from Fresno has to say. If there is some other reason given by GN'R later on I'll most likely believe it if it seems plausible.

But you're right of course, I want nothing more than for GN'R to fail. Fuck getting the chance to see them again next summer or the possibillity of having an album in my hands. I only visit GN'R fan boards every day, why the fuck should I want any of that.

[Nytunz]

lets just wait to GnR tell us why the had to cancel.
They will be back doing some killer show before a well earned christmas vication.

[jarmo]

I could never understand why Beta spends her time on this forum replying to negative people when she could be discussing interesting things with the people that still support this band. How many times did she do that?

And why don't you spend time talking about those interesting things yourself?

Stop trying to tell others what to do. Mind your own business.

That's because you were given an explanation. If there wasn't one it would not have been normal for you to just accept it.

Well, how do you know?

It was cancelled, I made other plans for that evening and went on with my life.

No reasons given would make me go back in time and undo the trip up there. It happened, I dealt with the consequences and moved on.



/jarmo

[Verasa]

people have to realize that bands cancel shows, if it doesn't affect you, why do you care. GnR are no different than any other band.

[Jdawg]

I just got an email from Ticketmaster saying they would be refunding my $$$. Cool, now I have $$ for Xmas.

[moons]

not doing it for the money? thats a foolish thing to say.

these shows are work, and people (including axl) don't work unless they are paid. businesses that lose money go out of business. bands that don't sell tickets do too. gn'r loses less money by not doing shows that sell poorly (although im not saying that's what they did here - we don't know.)

your logic, that gn'r isnt in this for the money, is one that is also commonly used to justify this supposed "surprise release" theory about chinese democracy dropping sometime before the new year. the fact is that such a release would make less money, and is thus highly improbable (note the surprise release of limp bizkit's 2005 album that crashed and burned).

i think one would be very naive to buy into such logic. we keep convincing ourselves of things on these boards because we post over and over again these bizarre overanalyses that serve nothing more than promulgate gossip, rumor, and untruths, and ultimately these things disappoint us and also damage the reputation of the band.

please, stop.

[zod]

It does suck when you think you're going to go see GNR and it gets cancelled.  We shelled out take the ferry from Vancouver Island to Vancouver back in '02.. and when we got there (45 mins after doors) everyone was waiting outside.. we knew it was cancelled, because its just that predictable.. i had the feeling all day in my stomach.. because i know it happens.. I had the same feeling here in Edmonton last week.. but he showed up.. so all was good.

At least ticketmaster automatically refunded the Vancouver tickets back onto my credit card, I didn't have to do anything, and I still have the ticket.  At least for this show people are getting some warning.. it beats spending money for transportation to get there and out on that too.

I don't think its uncommon for bands to cancel shows.. I do however think its uncommon for them to cancel them as often as Axl does.  I don't think it really matters though.... if they play people will come.. I got screwed in Vancouver and I still went again.. shit happens.

Hopefully the promoters don't pull the plug on the rest of the tour this time.. but i think last time it was because riots arupted.. its easier to avoid the riots if you announce the cancellation before giant masses of fans accumulate around the arena.

[Cleopatra2U]

Unless attendance is absolutely abysmal -- and does anyone know if it was that bad for this show? -- I think that the cost of not doing a show far outweighs the cost of doing it.  Venues get at least some of their rental money ahead of time and they keep at least some of that money in the event of a cancellation.  I don't know for sure how the band members and crew are getting paid, but I assume it's either a flat rate (which means they will get paid the same whether shows happen or not) or a percentage of overall revenue (which means they stand to make more money if they perform unless attendance is so bad that it would cause them to lose money).  I can see them saving money on things like pyro that simply won't be used, and perhaps on security and other venue staff, but...  ...I guess it depends on how contracts are written...  ...and I'm still hoping everyone is okay.

[estranged.1098]

I could never understand why Beta spends her time on this forum replying to negative people when she could be discussing interesting things with the people that still support this band. How many times did she do that?

And why don't you spend time talking about those interesting things yourself?

Stop trying to tell others what to do. Mind your own business.

I'm not telling anyone what to do, or what they should or should not discuss (lol). I'm just disappointed that Beta has chosen to communicate with negative people in a negative way when we could all be having fun instead. This board is lacking positiveness right now, and sadly there's nothing you and I can do about it.

That's because you were given an explanation. If there wasn't one it would not have been normal for you to just accept it.

Well, how do you know?

It was cancelled, I made other plans for that evening and went on with my life.

No reasons given would make me go back in time and undo the trip up there. It happened, I dealth with the consequences and moved on.

When you were given an explanation you felt respected. Hell, the reason for the cancellation was respect for the fans, remember?

I can't see how anyone would not feel disrespected if no explanation had been given.

[killingvector]

Blah Blah Blah.  Enough already.

Seriously, we will find out what happened later. Frankly, I have no problem with a cancellation based on lack of interest. The last thing I want to read, aside from a riot, sickness, or death, is that Axl played to 1500 equally spaced fans in a cavernous arena. If he has to fold these fans into the next venue to get a sell out, then so be it.  This is what happens when there is a tour with no album.

If it is a sickness, then the cancellation is understood.

There will be some comment at some point.  Fresno is at the bottom of the list of unanswered questions.

[Cleopatra2U]

Here is an example. Lets say that it cost 1m to do a show, but due to poor tickets sales the band is only going to make 750,000 that is a 250,000 loss. Plus gnr always pay tons of late fees because they break curfew that is more money htey are going to lose.

That makes sense, but only if attendence is downright awful, which I can't see it being for any GNR show.  I could be wrong though.

Plus, GNR gets so much badmouthing for its cancellations (more so I think than any other artist, deserved or not) one would think they wouldn't invite any more of the same unless they absolutely had to.  To me "absolutely had to" would include illness or injury but not losing money.  Lots of money, like in Dave's example, maybe, but not just a few thousand bucks. 

[brock]

Why would any artist cancel any show due to poor ticket sales?

Every ticket sold makes them money. ?If a show gets cancelled, they don't get money from ticket sales.

Every bit of merchandise sold at a show makes them money. ?If a show gets cancelled, they don't get money from merchandise sales.

And besides the money, there's the integrity factor.

I don't buy "poor ticket sales" as the reason for this cancellation.

I hope everyone in the band is okay.

there must be a certain number of tickets to sell just to break even...to pay everyone and the venue's rental fee's etc, under that you LOSE money..

[Spirit]

Could this cancellation have anything to do with the album release maybe? Some sort of preparation?

One can dream.... ?

[Cleopatra2U]

there must be a certain number of tickets to sell just to break even...to pay everyone and the venue's rental fee's etc, under that you LOSE money..

I know... ?What I don't know and am having trouble grasping is that GNR didn't move enough tickets for this particular show to get to, or at least close to, that break-even point. ?They also have to consider the effects of cancellations on future tour dates and the possibility of losing money due to that. ?Well, hopefully everyone in the band is okay, and hopefully most of the people who had tickets to this show will be able to go to the Oakland one instead.