Barack Obama for President

[shelly60]

I think you are right his name is against him America won't vote for that name.

[Booker Floyd]

you forget to mention the man has NO EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER

8 years in the Illinois state legislature.

2 years in the U.S. Senate (4 by 2008). 

Instead of repeating (and badly exaggerating) this banal talking point, why dont you explain what a few more years of legislative experience has to do with an executive position?  Then reconcile that with the fact that Abraham Lincoln served 8 years in the Illinois state legislature and 2 in the U.S. House of Representatives. 

thats right Hussein is his middle name

So what? 

[Guns N RockMusic]

While I will openly admitt that tenure in the legislature doesn't qualify one for President, Democrats were accusing Bush of being unexperienced because he had only operated at the state level.  People are going to find ways to pigeon hole any candidate, and they should.  Our public officials should be under great scrutiny.

Obama doesn't stand a chance.  He's black, young, relatively new to politics and has Hussein as a middle name.   Worst of all, Bill Clinton is going to be campaigning against him.  Maybe in 2016 America may be more open to a candidate such as Obama, but I see Obama suffering the same fate as Dean.   Alot of hype leading up to the primaries and then failing miserably against the big wigs.  Edwards and Clinton will tear him apart.

[Booker Floyd]

While I will openly admitt that tenure in the legislature doesn't qualify one for President, Democrats were accusing Bush of being unexperienced because he had only operated at the state level.

Can you cite some examples?

Obama doesn't stand a chance.  He's black, young, relatively new to politics and has Hussein as a middle name.   Worst of all, Bill Clinton is going to be campaigning against him. 

The hindrances you list might not mean as much as you think in the primaries.  This constant talk of his middle name is downright stupid and while its done under the pretense that its an issue for other people, it really seems to be an issue for yourself and the others who keep bringing it up and making it an issue.  And while you might be justified in acknowledging those perceived obstacles, you do so without also acknowledging  that Obama happens to be an extraordinary politician.  John Kennedy as an Irish Catholic running for president in a far less tolerant time shouldnt have won, but he was extraordinary.  Political talent (combined with the subsequent fawning media) can overcome those relatively minor hurdles, and while hes not guaranteed victory, he at least stands a chance.  Should he win, Bill Clinton will be campaigning for him.  The same goes for any Democratic nominee. 

[Guns N RockMusic]

While I will openly admitt that tenure in the legislature doesn't qualify one for President, Democrats were accusing Bush of being unexperienced because he had only operated at the state level.

Can you cite some examples?

Obama doesn't stand a chance.? He's black, young, relatively new to politics and has Hussein as a middle name.? ?Worst of all, Bill Clinton is going to be campaigning against him.?

The hindrances you list might not mean as much as you think in the primaries.? This constant talk of his middle name is downright stupid and while its done under the pretense that its an issue for other people, it really seems to be an issue for yourself and the others who keep bringing it up and making it an issue.? And while you might be justified in acknowledging those perceived obstacles, you do so without also acknowledging? that Obama happens to be an extraordinary politician.? John Kennedy as an Irish Catholic running for president in a far less tolerant time shouldnt have won, but he was extraordinary.? Political talent (combined with the subsequent fawning media) can overcome those relatively minor hurdles, and while hes not guaranteed victory, he at least stands a chance.? Should he win, Bill Clinton will be campaigning for him.? The same goes for any Democratic nominee.?

I'm not going to find links for critiques of Bush.? I vividly remember the arguments in 2000 as that was my first presidential election.

To be honest, I didn't even know OBama's middle name was Hussein until someone said it here.? Quote Kennedy all you want, but Kennedy one, had a questionable election, andtwo  had a huge support base because he was catholic.? Thirdly, I think you're hyping up the anti-cathoilc sentiment.? How many catholics that ran before Kennedy were denied?? Were there vocal people who claimed electing Kennedy would be electing the pope, yep, but they were a minority.

Obama won't get elected because he's a minority and no one knows shit about him.? The man is very vague and using a lot of rhetoric.? What is known about him is going to castrate him when he comes under scrutiny from both sides.? He's against gay marriage and is in favor of gun control.? He's gonna gimp himself that way.? I'm not going to argue Obama anymore, because you're living in a pipe dream.? We can reference this topic 16 months from now when time has proven me right.

[SLCPUNK]

  The man is very vague and using a lot of rhetoric. 

False.

  We can reference this topic 16 months from now when time has proven me right.

I'd like to see that, since you have not been right about anything else.

[Bodhi]

you forget to mention the man has NO EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER

8 years in the Illinois state legislature.

2 years in the U.S. Senate (4 by 2008).?

Instead of repeating (and badly exaggerating) this banal talking point, why dont you explain what a few more years of legislative experience has to do with an executive position?? Then reconcile that with the fact that Abraham Lincoln served 8 years in the Illinois state legislature and 2 in the U.S. House of Representatives.?

thats right Hussein is his middle name

So what??

SO what?? I am with you on that one, his name shouldnt hurt him,,BUT IT WILL... you are insane if you think it wont.. Say Dick Cheney's middle name was Hitler, are you telling me the left is not going play that up BIG TIME?? It would hurt him, and you know it would.. you are not very realistic if you think this country is ready to elect a man named Barack Hussein Obama....seriously how do you think he will do in the South?? he will get destroyed...You have to remember that the typical American voter is a fucking moron, and that name is all they are going to need to turn them off, nevermind the fact that he is a minority... would i vote for him? maybe..depends what the election looks like in 2008, but you are nuts if you think the country is ready to rally behind him, just because the left wing media is kissing his ass does not mean a thing..he has avoided all tough questioning and is never tested in interviews..seriously I think the democrats have to rethink their whole strategy in 2008, if their 2 top candidates are a woman and a minority.... Am I saying a woman or a minority would not make a good president? of course not...but I am certain they have no shot of winning, no matter how badly republicans are screwing up...not yet in America....not yet

[Booker Floyd]

I'm not going to find links for critiques of Bush.  I vividly remember the arguments in 2000 as that was my first presidential election.

Oddly enough, I expected this.  Without an example, its nothing but a strawman argument to me.

To be honest, I didn't even know OBama's middle name was Hussein until someone said it here.

How you learned of it is irrelevant to my point.  By bringing it up, youre the one making it an issue.

Quote Kennedy all you want, but Kennedy one, had a questionable election, andtwo  had a huge support base because he was catholic.  Thirdly, I think you're hyping up the anti-cathoilc sentiment.  How many catholics that ran before Kennedy were denied?  Were there vocal people who claimed electing Kennedy would be electing the pope, yep, but they were a minority.

First, I didnt quote Kennedy.  Second, you dont think Obama will have a huge support base because hes black?

Im not hyping up anything.  The fact is that until Kennedys election, there had never been a Catholic president (Alfred Smith was defeated in 1928) and many Protestants were weary of a Catholic candidate.  You observe that they were the minority (good observation considering he was elected); are you implying that the of people who will vote aganist Obama because hes black or because of his middle name are in the majority?

Obama won't get elected because he's a minority and no one knows shit about him.

What a fatuous suggestion this is.  What did the entire country know about Bill Clinton in 1990?  Basing a candidates electability on what the entire country knows about a candidate two years before an election is pretty short-sighted, isnt it?  Its also questionable considering that candidate won his Senate seat with 70% of the vote, receives a large amount of media coverage, is among the leaders in various polls, etc.  If hes chosen as the nominee, Im pretty sure his profile will rise just a bit (even though hes already one of the highest profile politicians there is), and more people will be familiar with him and his message.  Thats the point of campaigning.

The man is very vague and using a lot of rhetoric.

Yeah, no politician could succeed with those qualities.  But speaking of vague, what are you basing this conclusion on?  What is he vague about?

What is known about him is going to castrate him when he comes under scrutiny from both sides.  He's against gay marriage and is in favor of gun control.  He's gonna gimp himself that way.

What does this mean?  He cant win because he doesnt support gay marriage and supports gun control? 

I'm not going to argue Obama anymore, because you're living in a pipe dream.

I thought it might because of your inability to support your points. 

[Booker Floyd]

seriously how do you think he will do in the South?? he will get destroyed...

Again, so what?  Virtually every Demorcratic nominee will lose the South.  If he could win every Kerry state and Ohio or Florida, he would be elected.

[Guns N RockMusic]

He'd never win Ohio, and I doubt he'd win Florida.

[Axl4Prez2004]

He'd never win Ohio, and I doubt he'd win Florida.

If we're still in Iraq in 2007/8 (which we will be)...I'll bet your ass he'd win Ohio.     Can he beat Hillary to get the nomination?  That's the question.  Either way it would be cool.  Either we could have Obama as president, or Bill as the First Man.   

Of course he wouldn't win in the south...an African-American democrat doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning in the south. 

Obama would be a great president. 

[Guns N RockMusic]

I'm from and live in Ohio.? Ohio is a very conservative state, pro gun and they passed Issue 1 in 2004 which banned same sex unions.? Obama might do well in Cleveland, but he'd certainly fail in the majority of the state.? Ohio has a very rural population that shares many of the same values of the South.

[Bodhi]

seriously how do you think he will do in the South?? he will get destroyed...

Again, so what?? Virtually every Demorcratic nominee will lose the South.? If he could win every Kerry state and Ohio or Florida, he would be elected.

just wait until he is challenged...remember the media is kissing his ass right now...once the right gets a hold of him...it will be game over...just ask John Kerry and Al Gore...both of their political careers are OVER...

[SLCPUNK]

Sure they'll try to swiftboat him, but the people were not having any of that the last election, and they sure as hell won't be having it in 08, when we are still in Iraq.

[Bodhi]

dude, it costed Kerry the election, what do you mean people werent having any of it??  it questioned his integrity and Dan Rather getting busted for making up the whole Bush National guard story didnt help either.....DOnt forget they are not running against Bush this time, they will have real competition....The left out to rethink there options, a minority and a woman... I would not have much confidence in that...I might vote for Barack or Hillary, but i know the majority of this country wont...

[Booker Floyd]

just wait until he is challenged...

Challenged on what?  What could be this great challenge that a politician as talented as Obama cant handle?

remember the media is kissing his ass right now...once the right gets a hold of him...it will be game over...just ask John Kerry and Al Gore...both of their political careers are OVER...

Ask them what?  What happened to Gore and Kerry that will happen to Obama?  Youre speaking in platitudes and implicitly saying that that no Democratic nominee could win because the right would get ahold of him and end their career.

And Gores political career is only over because he wants it to be.  Its very possible that the nomination could be his if he chose to pursue it.

I'm from and live in Ohio.  Ohio is a very conservative state, pro gun and they passed Issue 1 in 2004 which banned same sex unions.  Obama might do well in Cleveland, but he'd certainly fail in the majority of the state.  Ohio has a very rural population that shares many of the same values of the South.

John Kerry lost it by 2%, winning more votes than Gore in 2000.  Bill Clinton (a gun control proponent) won it in both of his elections.

Ive already expressed my doubts about Obama winning, however I dont believe he has no chance whatsoever.

[Axl4Prez2004]

If I'm not mistaken, isn't Ohio also a manufacturing state?  Do you think unions are taking kindly to the current administration's anti-union, pro-big business, pro-sending jobs overseas stances?  How about the current administration's coddling of the ultra-rich?  I would say the majority of Ohio folk are middle class that would appreciate a cut in taxes at the small expense of the ultra-rich.  The problem?  The Republicans are massively funded by the ultra-rich who enjoy the tax benefits of a Republican administration. 

Also, many more American soldiers will have died by '07/'08, and what for?  To protect us from an imminent threat?  Obama will be poetry in motion come debate time.  He's intelligent, classy, and should strike fear into the hearts (if they've got them  ) of the Republicans. 

As more and more people get shot on the streets, as more and more folks realize that the folks in the cities are moving into their suburbs, I do believe the majority of people realize moderate gun control is needed.  The NRA is just as radical as the people who want all guns made illegal.  To me, the gun issue is not a big issue at all.  People want food on their plates, a steady job, time with their families, and less worry about war and crime.
Obama can help make these things happen.   

[SLCPUNK]

dude, it costed Kerry the election, what do you mean people werent having any of it??  it questioned his integrity and Dan Rather getting busted for making up the whole Bush National guard story didnt help either.....DOnt forget they are not running against Bush this time, they will have real competition....The left out to rethink there options, a minority and a woman... I would not have much confidence in that...I might vote for Barack or Hillary, but i know the majority of this country wont...

I am talking about the last election that just took place. Nobody was buying the swiftboat tactics anymore. Rove was so sure that they were going to win and he could not have been more wrong.

I'm not saying they are running against Bush, but Bush is setting them up to fail once again. We will still be in Iraq, and more than likely they will still be viciously attacking the other side with lies and swiftboat techniques, which obviously the public has grown weary of. They want real answers to big problems we have now. The same ole shtick ain't gonna get it any more.

A minority and a woman represent a lot of people in this country now, not just women and minorities. Fox is right: put Hillary and Obama together and you have something huge.

[Bodhi]

you act as though republicans are the only ones to use "swiftboat" tactics...democrats are just as underhanded and dirty in their tactics, and they OWN the mainstream media.  The mainstream media is not going to help them anymore because it is a aging dinosaur, with the internet, cable news and blogging neither side will have a stranglehold on the media ever again...If it werent for these things the FALSE Bush National Guard story that Dan Rather MADE UP would have never been exposed for what it was....You have to understand you need the majority you cant just rely on NYC and California to win elections for you, thats why the Democrats never win, im from NYC and I can tell you the South will NEVER vote for Obama or Hillary...ever, and you cant even rely on NYC because if Giuliani gets the nod, which is unlikely, but if he does he will hammer both of them in NY...and he will take the south because even though the south might not like him, he is a white male and thats all they will need...wake up...the country is not as progressive as you think it is

[SLCPUNK]

.democrats are just as underhanded and dirty in their tactics, and they OWN the mainstream media. 

"Liberal Media" is another boogieman du jour created by the right wing. It's right up there with flag burning...

Every time I ask for examples, I never get one, not one.

Rather reminded me of the LAPD in the OJ case: he tried to frame a man that was already guilty. A foolish way to end his career, it is hardly an example of "left wing media" bias however. I was given that example before, but that isolated incident hardly backs the rights laughable conspiracy theories about the massive (and apparently unsuccessful, since the right ran this country into the ground for years) left wing media machine.

It has nothing to do with "being progressive." It has to do with people being tired of being served shit sandwiches over the next two years. Iraq is a big old shit sandwich, and we will still be there in 08. Like Bud Fox said, the democrats have a secret weapon named "The republicans". Nobody even replied to that post, but he's dead on the money. As more body bags come home, other options will look more and more appealing. These guys can try to distance themselves from Bush all they want, but I doubt it will work. Rove was so sure about the last election, just like you are now. I bet he wished he had his mint flavored shoes on at the end.