The "Don't Cry" lawsuit

[shaved]

I just posted this in another thread, but since I can't recall it ever being discussed I thought I would start a new topic.



(7/20/00, 6 p.m. ET) - A Midwestern songwriter has filed a copyright infringement suit against current and former members of Guns N' Roses, claiming the band's "Don't Cry" is derived from one of his songs.

According to Hits magazine and the Evansville Courier & Press, Indiana songwriter Bobby Martin claims "Don't Cry" "contains musical portions identical or substantially similar to the instrumental version" of his 1978 composition, "Ensename A Amar (Show Me How To Love)." Martin says his song was a No. 1 hit in Puerto Rico and across Central and South America, in addition to its success in the U.S. Latino gospel market. The songwriter insists that 65% of "Don't Cry" is derived from his song.

In his suit, Martin names as defendants lead singer Axl Rose, lead guitarist Slash, bassist Duff McKagan, and rhythm guitarist Izzy Stradlin, in addition to Geffen Records and the Universal Music Group, and he's seeking more than $11.5 million in to-date profits from the song, not to mention a percentage of future earnings. A spokesperson for Guns N' Roses' management had no comment.

-- Bruce Simon, New York
http://music.yahoo.com/read/news/12054691






What came of this?  It seemed to disapear and was never discussed.   I think there is a "chance" GNR did steal the song, and here are my reasons.

1.  Don't Cry is the only song that has two seperate versions on the same release. (UYI1/2)
2.  Axl has never played it live since then, which is very strange considering it was a hit single and a song that axl seemed to love back in the day.  Would playing the song live count as "future earnings" at a concert?
3.  Bumblefoot plays the "lyrics" to the song in his solo, but not the guitar parts.. strange.  It's as if they want to play the song live, but can't.

Those three details smell fishy to me when considering the lawsuit.   Not saying they did it, saying they could have.

[JohnMorrison73]

pfft hes just mad he didn't get a hit..

[Jonx]

I think it was all settled out of court. This was originally in the lawsuit thread that i started years ago, it used to be stickyd but dissapeared a while back!

Jonx

[polluxlm]

What came of this?? It seemed to disapear and was never discussed.? ?I think there is a "chance" GNR did steal the song, and here are my reasons.

1.? Don't Cry is the only song that has two seperate versions on the same release. (UYI1/2)

I don't quite see how that indicates the song was stolen.

2.? Axl has never played it live since then, which is very strange considering it was a hit single and a song that axl seemed to love back in the day.? Would playing the song live count as "future earnings" at a concert?

Any band can play any song live without permission or having to pay retributions to the owners, so that is definitely not the reason.

3.? Bumblefoot plays the "lyrics" to the song in his solo, but not the guitar parts.. strange.? It's as if they want to play the song live, but can't.

That could be the only valid point, but it could also just mean that BBF is such an awesome guitarplayer that he wants to do something original instead of just repeating stuff.

Those three details smell fishy to me when considering the lawsuit.? ?Not saying they did it, saying they could have.

I'm not really sure, but I seem to remember that the guy lost in court.

[polluxlm]

GN'R aside, check out this one. Comparison of Tom Pettys Mary Jane and RHCPs Dani California

http://www.jared-morris.com/blog/petty.mp3

[dave-gnfnr2k]

I just posted this in another thread, but since I can't recall it ever being discussed I thought I would start a new topic.



(7/20/00, 6 p.m. ET) - A Midwestern songwriter has filed a copyright infringement suit against current and former members of Guns N' Roses, claiming the band's "Don't Cry" is derived from one of his songs.

According to Hits magazine and the Evansville Courier & Press, Indiana songwriter Bobby Martin claims "Don't Cry" "contains musical portions identical or substantially similar to the instrumental version" of his 1978 composition, "Ensename A Amar (Show Me How To Love)." Martin says his song was a No. 1 hit in Puerto Rico and across Central and South America, in addition to its success in the U.S. Latino gospel market. The songwriter insists that 65% of "Don't Cry" is derived from his song.

In his suit, Martin names as defendants lead singer Axl Rose, lead guitarist Slash, bassist Duff McKagan, and rhythm guitarist Izzy Stradlin, in addition to Geffen Records and the Universal Music Group, and he's seeking more than $11.5 million in to-date profits from the song, not to mention a percentage of future earnings. A spokesperson for Guns N' Roses' management had no comment.

-- Bruce Simon, New York
http://music.yahoo.com/read/news/12054691






What came of this?? It seemed to disapear and was never discussed.? ?I think there is a "chance" GNR did steal the song, and here are my reasons.

1.? Don't Cry is the only song that has two seperate versions on the same release. (UYI1/2)
2.? Axl has never played it live since then, which is very strange considering it was a hit single and a song that axl seemed to love back in the day.? Would playing the song live count as "future earnings" at a concert?
3.? Bumblefoot plays the "lyrics" to the song in his solo, but not the guitar parts.. strange.? It's as if they want to play the song live, but can't.

Those three details smell fishy to me when considering the lawsuit.? ?Not saying they did it, saying they could have.

I thought gnr won that suit

[shaved]

GN'R aside, check out this one. Comparison of Tom Pettys Mary Jane and RHCPs Dani California

http://www.jared-morris.com/blog/petty.mp3

HA!

[Edward Rose]

You forgot one more. In the "Making 'Don't Cry'" there's a running joke that goes, "Who wrote 'Don't Cry?'"

I'm not saying they didn't write it. Just mentioning this coincidence. I happen to think the "Who wrote..." is a different joke, and the reason we never heard anything else on the law suit is probably because it was thrown out of court. No law suit would take six years if it had any merit. JIMHO

I always wondered why that yahoo link was the only report of the story.

[brock]

This sort of thing happens a lot more than people might think, and the people who copy almost always get nailed...Ala George Harrison with "My Sweet Lord", The verve with "Bitterdweet symphony"...ETC

[JohnMorrison73]

GN'R aside, check out this one. Comparison of Tom Pettys Mary Jane and RHCPs Dani California

http://www.jared-morris.com/blog/petty.mp3

holy mudda fuckin' shit!

[BillBailey]

I think its interesting that this gut sued in year 2000 according to the article when that song was a hit in '91. Did he just wake up nine years later and go hey I just realized that GNR stole my song I had better go ahead and sue them now. I think if it was valid at all he would have sued long before he did.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Hasa anyone even heard that guys song? Does it even sound like dont cry

[W 23 AXL II]

that RHCP and Petty song was interesting. but musicians, mostly, "steal" from others. u see, there are only so many chords and chord progressions out there. eventually, someone else thinks of the same thing u just did. but when the melodies are the same, thats when you scratch your head, and when the overall feel of the song is the same, that gets u wondering.

but if i write a song using F G A as the chorus, and Dont Cry uses F G A as the chorus, what can I do....chords and progressions are one thing...melodies, rhythm and feel are another.

[Communist China]

GN'R aside, check out this one. Comparison of Tom Pettys Mary Jane and RHCPs Dani California

http://www.jared-morris.com/blog/petty.mp3

People stopped caring about that a long time ago.

[shaved]

I remember seeing a much larger story on this back in the day.  The reason he heard "don't cry" was because one of his students noticed the similarities between his song and gnr's.  Apparently the guy never listens to the radio any more and would have never known had not his young student pointed it out to him. 


Hopefully it's not true, but even if it is I don't really care.  Great song.

[polluxlm]

GN'R aside, check out this one. Comparison of Tom Pettys Mary Jane and RHCPs Dani California

http://www.jared-morris.com/blog/petty.mp3

People stopped caring about that a long time ago.

Oh, excuse me then

[Demon Wolf]

^^Stealing chord progressions happens all the time. But as someone mentioned above, it's definately not a coincident when the lyrical melody, arrangement and tempo of two songs are almost similiar.

Take I Used To Love Her and Dead Flowers for example. Same chord progression. But different melody.

[Communist China]

GN'R aside, check out this one. Comparison of Tom Pettys Mary Jane and RHCPs Dani California

http://www.jared-morris.com/blog/petty.mp3

People stopped caring about that a long time ago.

Oh, excuse me then

You're excused.

[The Chad Cometh]

This whole thing reminds me of the chick who tried to sue the Wachowski Bros., claiming that the Matrix Movies were almost a direct rip off of a book she had written. 

[slash666]

2.? Axl has never played it live since then, which is very strange considering it was a hit single and a song that axl seemed to love back in the day.? Would playing the song live count as "future earnings" at a concert?

Axl doesnt play it anymore cause he retired it, in memory of Shannon Hoon