Question about GNR song selection "Civil War"

[Newbie2]

I was referred to this board as the site for fans who are an authority on Guns N Roses.  I am not a huge fan so my knowledge is limited, but I have a question for a piece  I am writing that I thought you guys might have an answer to. 

I am with some fellow students putting together a short film on socially relevant music.  One of the sections deals with the War & songs about war.  Vietnam was a rather easy segment to put together since there is a large volume of material, but Iraq is much harder.  One of the students came across "Civil War: by Guns N Roses.  While I understand this was written in the 80s we were all blown away by how this might be the most relevant song lyrically to the current war.  In fact I was quite suprised that GNR wrote a song that was so aware & prophetic (nothing against GNR I just always assumed they were more of a sex, drugs, & RR band).

In our search for recent interviews or statements from Axl Rose about this song I could find nothing,  Even more suprising was the fact that GNR do not appear to be playing this song on their current tour.  My question is, does anyone no if he has ever made any recent statments about this song & it's relevance to the current war, & if he has played it on the current tour. 

Thanks for any help & I hope he has played it because it is truly a brilliant song.

[EFISH]

He hasn't, and he hasn't. 

But you are right that it is very revelant today. Axl is as always, way ahead of his time.

[JuicySwoos]

I like that he hasnt made any such statements, and lets the fans find the relevance of the song on their own volition.

[gokken]

I cant help much but I think that the song was written about the cruelty in the world in general. Not sure but I guess some hotshot will correct me any second now if I?m way wrong

You are right, they havnt and I?m pretty sure they wont play it live these days. Not on this tour.

But  here you have it live, it was the old GNR doing it in maybe 1992-1993.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctTFHbiP7wY




Peace can last forever!

[Wicked Demon]

In fact I was quite suprised that GNR wrote a song that was so aware & prophetic

Wow, you totally missed the hidden meaning of the song. It's about sex and drugs.

I kid, I kid.

[IrishGuns]

To me its about how war is sold to the general public through government propeganda which doesn't tell us the real truths.

[polluxlm]

He hasn't, and he hasn't.?

But you are right that it is very revelant today. Axl is as always, way ahead of his time.

War is always relevant. Don't give him too much credit. It's not like he hauled it out of his ass. He was inspired like everyone else.

[Cooker]

Hey Guys,

 I have always found this song beyond the Band. It is by most accounts a protest song. It does not point fingers at any group or conflict thus making it timeless.

Good luck with your project.

[Bandita]

It's about how war is profitable to the rich and takes the lives of the poor. ?Can be applied to any war really....

But I agree with the person who said that he likes the fact that Axl doesn't make personal statements about the war....at least he hasn't lately.

[polluxlm]

But I agree with the person who said that he likes the fact that Axl doesn't make personal statements about the war....at least he hasn't lately.

Yeah, that's a smart move. Pick a side, you're an idiot. Be objective, no one cares. Best to shut it.

Leave the contemplation to those who are intelligent enough.

[misterID]

Chinese Democracy (the song) could fit into the same mold as Civil War as a socially conscious song.

[Amish]

Yeah, it's about people being blind to what the government sells us. 

"In my first memories they shot Kennedy, I went numb when I learned to see..."

[DoctorNo]

My question is, does anyone no if he has ever made any recent statments about this song & it's relevance to the current war, & if he has played it on the current tour. 

These aren't recent quotes, but you might find them informative:

Axl: The inspiration was a friend who wanted me to write a song about just how crazy the world is and certain things. And I just thought it was an interesting subject. And Slash had this music and it exactly fit what I had written.

Duff: Basically it was a riff that we would do at soundchecks, and... umm, Axl came up with a couple of lines, at the beginning and... I went on peace march when I was a little kid with my mom. I was like four years old. For Martin Luther King, and that's when "Did you wear the black armband when they shot the man who said: "Peace would last forever"?". And it's just... true-life experiences, really.

You can find more at this link, but most of the remarks regard the recording of the song, and not its contents:

http://www.gnrinfo.tk/

I cant help much but I think that the song was written about the cruelty in the world in general.

I would say that's the fairest assesment, especially given axl's comment quoted above. Parts of the song reference injustice and war in various contexts, but the song as a whole is broader than "war" or indeed any particular conflict.

Peace can last forever!

That's one of the most potent images in the song - really expresses beautifully how human nature will always frustrate any peace that could "last forever," short of our collective annihilation.

As for Axl commenting on current conflicts: I think he admonished a crowd during Desert shield/storm not to construe this song as simply anti-war. As misterID says above, it's more of a broad socially conscious song than a message song.

And thankfully Axl's aware enough to know he's a rockstar first and not a pundit. He throws enough rants about the press, other musicians, and assholes in general to fill his stage show. I don't want to see more posturing at a concert.

[fixintodie]

To me its about how war is sold to the general public through government propeganda which doesn't tell us the real truths.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Thats exactly what the 'human grocery store' stuff always led me to.

[justynius]

Use Your Illusion 1 & 2 are not protest albums, and all GN'R records seem to build on a central theme. 'Civil War' is obviously about war on a literal level, but it would not fit if that was the main idea in the song.

I've always thought the song used the machinery of war as a metaphor of the pressures on an artist to sell out and be what the media/fans/record companies want them (and their art) to be instead of what they really are.

There might be a lame (but effective) pun when Axl sings, "I don't need your civil W.A.R."

So if you accept my interpretation, the song is extremely socially conscious - just not in the way you originally believed.

[dangnr]

THis  is some of Axls best lyrics ever, the greatest un heard song prolly ever!! I hope the new Guns see how great of a song this is Id love too see them nail it!!!!!!!!!!  but back to those lyrics they are amazing!!! "look at the shoes your filling, look at the blood were spiling look at the world were killing the way eve always done before
look at the doubt weve wallowed look at the leaders weve followed look at the LIes weve swalloed and i dont wannna hear no more!!"     aamzing stuff

[Newbie2]

Thank you all for your opinions on the song.  Thank you Dr no for some actual quotes about the song from band members.  Perhaps I should search Duff's remarks more as it seems as though he might have contributed to the tone. 

I would respectfully disagree with the poster that believes this song is about the music industry.  In our research we have studied well over 1,000 lyrics & this song without a doubt captures more than any other the current war our Country is engaged in. 

"My hands are tied as billions pass from side to side".   This is a generic lyric that could apply to any modern war & directly relates to Eisenhower's fear of an military complex.   It is especially relevant to this war when you consider how every aspect has been privatized & companies like Haliburton with direct ties to our leaders are making billions.

"In my first memories they shot Kennedy, I went numb when I learned to see.  I never fell for Vietnam we got the wall of DC to remind us all that you can't trust freedom when it's not in your hand when everybodies fighting for the promised land".  IMO this describes exactly where we are at today.  Our leaders lead us to war based on their beliefs  & motivations.  It is especially relevant when you consider that all sides of this conflict believe that God is on their side & will lead them to victory or "the promised land".

I could go on, but 7 of us have poored over numerous lyrics & this song struck us all as the most powerful.   We all became more aware of Axl Rose as a poet & truly hope that any new album he releases contains at least some material that touches this aspect of his talent.

[BluesGNR]

Thank you all for your opinions on the song.? Thank you Dr no for some actual quotes about the song from band members.? Perhaps I should search Duff's remarks more as it seems as though he might have contributed to the tone.?

I would respectfully disagree with the poster that believes this song is about the music industry.? In our research we have studied well over 1,000 lyrics & this song without a doubt captures more than any other the current war our Country is engaged in.?

"My hands are tied as billions pass from side to side".? ?This is a generic lyric that could apply to any modern war & directly relates to Eisenhower's fear of an military complex.? ?It is especially relevant to this war when you consider how every aspect has been privatized & companies like Haliburton with direct ties to our leaders are making billions.

"In my first memories they shot Kennedy, I went numb when I learned to see.? I never fell for Vietnam we got the wall of DC to remind us all that you can't trust freedom when it's not in your hand when everybodies fighting for the promised land".? IMO this describes exactly where we are at today.? Our leaders lead us to war based on their beliefs? & motivations.? It is especially relevant when you consider that all sides of this conflict believe that God is on their side & will lead them to victory or "the promised land".

I could go on, but 7 of us have poored over numerous lyrics & this song struck us all as the most powerful.? ?We all became more aware of Axl Rose as a poet & truly hope that any new album he releases contains at least some material that touches this aspect of his talent.

It depends on your interpretation.  Songs can be deeper than the lyrics at hand and have alternate meanings or influences.  Try to remember than if you're analyzing lyrics for any purpose.

[Six Strings]

You might find this one interesting...

"What we've got here is failure to
communicate.
Some men you just can't reach...
So, you get what we had here last week,
which is the way he wants it!
Well, he gets it!
N' I don't like it any more than you men."

This is the begining of the song and it is taken from Strother Martin - from the film 'Cool Hand Luke'


"WE PRACTICE SELECTIVE ANNIHILATION OF MAYORS AND GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS
FOR EXAMPLE TO CREATE A VACUUM
THEN WE FILL THAT VACUUM
AS POPULAR WAR ADVANCES
PEACE IS CLOSER"

This is another part of the song and it is taken from Peruvian Guerilla General.


Great song though. Just AWESOME!

[Jonx]

I cant remember which show it was from, but im sure someone here will. Around the time of the first Gulf War Axl went on some typical rant saying how even if you dont believe that the politics in any war are correct that doesnt really matter, you should support the US troops in what they are doing, because they are there, they are the ones fighting!

It was something like that, im sure someone else can give you a better acount of what he said. Good song though, probably one of GnRs best!

Jonx