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Author Topic: U.S. commander warns against Iraq cutoff  (Read 11687 times)
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« on: November 15, 2006, 04:04:23 PM »

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061115/ap_on_go_co/congress_iraq_12



U.S. commander warns against Iraq cutoff By ANNE PLUMMER FLAHERTY, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 17 minutes ago
 


The top U.S. commander in the Middle East warned Congress Wednesday against setting a timetable for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq, putting him at odds with resurgent Democrats pressing President Bush to start pulling out of the violence-torn country.

Gen. John Abizaid spoke as the Senate Armed Services Committee began re-examining U.S. policy in the wake of last week's elections, which gave Democrats control of Congress starting next year and was widely seen as a repudiation of the administration's war policies.

Democrats have been coalescing around a call for beginning a U.S. withdrawal in coming months. In arguing against a timetable for troop withdrawals, Abizaid told the committee that he and other commanders need flexibility in managing U.S. forces and determining how and when to pass on responsibility to Iraqi forces.

"Specific timetables limit that flexibility," Abizaid said.

Asked directly what effect he foresaw on sectarian violence if Congress legislated a phased U.S. withdrawal starting in four to six months, Abizaid replied, "I believe it would increase."

"It seems to me that the prudent course ahead is to keep the troop levels about where they are," Abizaid said, while placing larger teams of U.S. military advisers inside Iraqi army and police units. He said that increased emphasis on advising Iraqi units might be accomplished without significantly increasing the total U.S. force in the country.

With voters expressing overwhelming opposition to the war, Bush the day after the election expressed a willingness to consider fresh approaches to Iraq policy and announced the resignation of Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, who had become a symbol of the unpopular war.

Abizaid said he believes U.S. troop levels, now at about 141,000, should stay steady but may have to rise temporarily to train and advise Iraqi military units. No reductions are advisable until the Iraqi security forces become more capable of dealing with the insurgency, securing Baghdad and dealing with the Shiite militia problem, he said.

"Our troop posture needs to stay where it is," for the time being, he said.

In one of the day's most contentious clashes, Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record), R-Ariz., challenged Abizaid on his analysis of the situation and complained that he was advocating no major changes in U.S. policy. McCain, a possible 2008 presidential candidate, has called for adding thousands more U.S. combat troops in Iraq to help fight the insurgency and halt sectarian violence in Baghdad.

"I'm of course disappointed that basically you're advocating the status quo here today, which I think the American people in the last election said that is not an acceptable condition," McCain said.

In response, Abizaid said he was not arguing for the status quo. He said the key change that is needed now is to place more U.S. troops inside the Iraqi army and police units to train and advise these forces in planning and executing missions.

Pressed by Sen. Jack Reed (news, bio, voting record), D-R.I., on how much time the U.S. and Iraqi government have to reduce the violence in Baghdad before it spirals beyond control, Abizaid said, "Four to six months."

Developing a "capable, independent" Iraqi government and armed forces "will set the conditions for withdrawal" of U.S. forces, Abazaid said. He offered no timetable for reaching that point. But he said earlier, "I remain optimistic we can stabilize Iraq."

He also acknowledged under questioning that Anbar province, where the Sunni insurgency is strongest, "is not under control." Nonetheless, he said, the main U.S. military effort needs to be in Baghdad rather than Anbar.

Reflecting the division of opinion on how to proceed in Iraq, the next chairman of the committee said the administration must tell Iraq that U.S. troops will begin withdrawing in four to six months in order to force them to take responsibility for their own future.

"We cannot save the Iraqis from themselves. The only way for Iraqi leaders to squarely face that reality is for President Bush to tell them that the United States will begin a phased redeployment of our forces within four to six months," said Sen. Carl Levin (news, bio, voting record), D-Mich.

Asked about his testimony in August that Iraq could fall into civil war and that the sectarian violence was as bad as he had ever seen it, Abizaid said that more recently the situation has improved, while still troubling. He visited Baghdad in recent days.

"It's certainly not as bad as the situation appeared back in August," Abizaid said, adding that he saw growing confidence among Iraqis in their government. "It's still at unacceptably high levels," he said of the sect-on-sect violence "I wouldn't say that we have turned the corner in this regard, but it's not nearly as bad as it was in August."

Asked by Levin whether he was considering increasing the number of U.S. troops in Iraq, Abizaid said he was considering "all the way from increasing U.S. combat forces all the way down to withdrawing" them. He said he would present recommendations to his superiors.

Wednesday's hearing was the first on Iraq policy since the Nov. 7 elections, when voters handed Democrats control of Congress in part because of their frustration over the lack of progress in Iraq. Just over a third of the public approves of Bush's handling of the war, according to AP-Ipsos polling last month. About six in 10 think the U.S. military action in Iraq was a mistake.

It was also the first hearing since Bush announced Nov. 8 that Donald H. Rumsfeld would step down as defense secretary and that former CIA director Robert Gates would be nominated to replace him. Bush also expressed a willingness to consider fresh ideas on Iraq, although he remains opposed to setting a specific timetable for troop withdrawals.

David Satterfield, the senior State Department adviser on Iraq, told the committee that the situation must not reach the point where ordinary Iraqis believe they are better protected by unauthorized militias than by their own government.

"Hope for a united Iraqi will crumble," if that happens, he said. "Such an outcome in Iraq is unacceptable. It would undermine U.S. national interests in Iraq and in the broader region. And it would lead to a humanitarian disaster for the Iraqi people."

Later the committee was hearing from CIA director Gen. Michael Hayden and Lt. Gen. Michael Maples, head of the Defense Intelligence Agency.

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« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2006, 05:08:29 PM »

Pressed by Sen. Jack Reed (news, bio, voting record), D-R.I., on how much time the U.S. and Iraqi government have to reduce the violence in Baghdad before it spirals beyond control, Abizaid said, "Four to six months."


That part is just insane.  No way in hell we'll be able to reduce the violence.  Its only been escalating.  I don't know if there is a "good" solution to Iraq, I think it just depends on how bad we want it to get for us.  I don't see anything happening to turn this into a "victory".

Mission Accomplished though right!  peace   Undecided
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« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2006, 05:20:03 PM »

That part is just insane.? No way in hell we'll be able to reduce the violence.? Its only been escalating.? I don't know if there is a "good" solution to Iraq, I think it just depends on how bad we want it to get for us.? I don't see anything happening to turn this into a "victory".

Mission Accomplished though right!? peace? ?Undecided

I agree, I don't remember the exact percent but I remember hearing a pretty large percentage of Iraqii's are still without electric & water?? WTF!! It's been 3 years since we bombed them. I say restore their services, get their gov't & police stabilized & get the hell out of dodge. Keep Special Forces throughout parts of the Middle East to continue searching for & fighting Al Queada [sp?], but not just in Iraq.. and just fucking bomb them off as much as possible.
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« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2006, 05:21:53 PM »

You don't believe this war is winnable. ?Furthermore, you want it to fail miserably so your party can tout it for years to come to attract voters. ?All politics aside, let the people who are actually fighting the war, risking their lives and observe the situation first hand decide. ?I'll take the word of a General anyday over a politician with career and votes in mind.
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« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2006, 05:25:18 PM »

?Furthermore, you want it to fail miserably so your party can tout it for years to come to attract voters. ?

Man, I hope your not talking to either of us?? Because none of us ever said that.


In fact, I think it'd be more likely the republicans would favor an unsuccessful next 2 years in Iraq, NOT democrats... because if the war is very successful for the next 2 years, bye-bye Republicans '08.

But I'm with you, all politics aside on this one, I just want the shit to get done!!
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« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2006, 05:31:20 PM »

All politics aside, let the people who are actually fighting the war, risking their lives and observe the situation first hand decide.  I'll take the word of a General anyday over a politician with career and votes in mind.

That was said pretty well.

Agree or not... the point is that we are in it now.. and we need to figure out a way to get it done right. You can bitch about either political party.. but the seperation is making us the laughing stock of the world! Americans need to come together and figure out a plan.
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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2006, 05:39:49 PM »

Furthermore, you want it to fail miserably so your party can tout it for years to come to attract voters. 

Man, I hope your not talking to either of us?? Because none of us ever said that.


Welcome to the world of Randall Flagg  hihi

To say that anyone wouldn't want a victory in Iraq is just so retarded...i'm speechless.  The fact of the matter is a true victory is impossible to achieve at this point.  If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you.

It has NOTHING to do with politics - sad that you are trying to turn this into a political thread in the first place.   
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« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2006, 05:41:14 PM »

That part is just insane.  No way in hell we'll be able to reduce the violence.  Its only been escalating.  I don't know if there is a "good" solution to Iraq, I think it just depends on how bad we want it to get for us.  I don't see anything happening to turn this into a "victory".

Mission Accomplished though right!  peace   Undecided

I agree, I don't remember the exact percent but I remember hearing a pretty large percentage of Iraqii's are still without electric & water?? WTF!! It's been 3 years since we bombed them. I say restore their services, get their gov't & police stabilized & get the hell out of dodge. Keep Special Forces throughout parts of the Middle East to continue searching for & fighting Al Queada [sp?], but not just in Iraq.. and just fucking bomb them off as much as possible.

Check out the stats on the unemployment rate...its even more F'ed up.  Thats how the terror groups are able to recruit so easily, they pay and feed the soldiers in a way their own country can't!!!  Get the people jobs, give them a house and land and a reason not to blow themselves up and the # of insurgents available for recruitment will drop big time.
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« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2006, 06:00:11 PM »

All politics aside, let the people who are actually fighting the war, risking their lives and observe the situation first hand decide.  I'll take the word of a General anyday over a politician with career and votes in mind.



We've had 3 years to be victorious, violence is on the rise, actually increasing, and the very general who's words you trust more then anyone elses just said he sees the violence getting to levels considered to be out of control in 4-6 months. 

There are plenty of Iraq war vets who have been there, come home and now are very vocal against the war, they risked their lives and observed first hand....are they just a bunch of pussies in your mind or something?
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« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2006, 06:04:14 PM »

You don't believe this war is winnable.  Furthermore, you want it to fail miserably so your party can tout it for years to come to attract voters.  All politics aside, let the people who are actually fighting the war, risking their lives and observe the situation first hand decide.  I'll take the word of a General anyday over a politician with career and votes in mind.

Then what about the military who say it is an utter failure?

Describe winning for us flagg?

« Last Edit: November 15, 2006, 06:09:11 PM by SLCPUNK » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2006, 06:11:10 PM »

Very neat and untidy.

There are no winners in war.
The greatest losers so far is USA.
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« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2006, 06:12:24 PM »

Very neat and untidy.

There are no winners in war.
The greatest losers so far is USA.

The greatest losers in this war are the 600,000 dead Iraqi civilians who have been slaughtered since we went in.

The winnner: IRAN.
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« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2006, 06:29:16 PM »

Very neat and untidy.

There are no winners in war.
The greatest losers so far is USA.

The greatest losers in this war are the 600,000 dead Iraqi civilians who have been slaughtered since we went in.

The winnner: IRAN.

True. But we cannot say that USA has been the worlds most belowed country since the start of the "Iraq Adventures".
Almost all arabs hates USA.
Thats alotta arabs. And they do not only hate Bush, the hate the nation and its citizens.
And the US acting has been condemned by people all around the globe damaging US foreign politics.
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« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2006, 06:35:43 PM »

Very neat and untidy.

There are no winners in war.
The greatest losers so far is USA.

The greatest losers in this war are the 600,000 dead Iraqi civilians who have been slaughtered since we went in.

The winnner: IRAN.

True. But we cannot say that USA has been the worlds most belowed country since the start of the "Iraq Adventures".
Almost all arabs hates USA.
Thats alotta arabs. And they do not only hate Bush, the hate the nation and its citizens.
And the US acting has been condemned by people all around the globe damaging US foreign politics.


I no, I agree with you. The NIE report has pretty much said that we have really done it to ourselves at this point. Iraq has created more hate towards the USA around the globe, recruited more terrorists, made us less safe in the long run.

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« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2006, 07:33:00 PM »

Very neat and untidy.

There are no winners in war.
The greatest losers so far is USA.

The greatest losers in this war are the 600,000 dead Iraqi civilians who have been slaughtered since we went in.

The winnner: IRAN.

True. But we cannot say that USA has been the worlds most belowed country since the start of the "Iraq Adventures".
Almost all arabs hates USA.
Thats alotta arabs. And they do not only hate Bush, the hate the nation and its citizens.
And the US acting has been condemned by people all around the globe damaging US foreign politics.


I no, I agree with you. The NIE report has pretty much said that we have really done it to ourselves at this point. Iraq has created more hate towards the USA around the globe, recruited more terrorists, made us less safe in the long run.


Certainly the rhetoric coming out of our own countries regarding the baseless contentions about the true motives for the war has contributed to the arab's hatred of Americans.? Most importantly, however, is this administrations absolute failure on the public relations front.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2006, 07:35:44 PM by BerkeleyRiot » Logged
MCT
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« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2006, 07:36:48 PM »

^ Are you a culture warrior?
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SLCPUNK
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« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2006, 07:47:06 PM »

Most importantly, however, is this administrations absolute failure on the public relations front.


It's a PR thang huh?

Please elaborate.
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« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2006, 07:47:17 PM »

Very neat and untidy.

There are no winners in war.
The greatest losers so far is USA.

The greatest losers in this war are the 600,000 dead Iraqi civilians who have been slaughtered since we went in.

The winnner: IRAN.

True. But we cannot say that USA has been the worlds most belowed country since the start of the "Iraq Adventures".
Almost all arabs hates USA.
Thats alotta arabs. And they do not only hate Bush, the hate the nation and its citizens.
And the US acting has been condemned by people all around the globe damaging US foreign politics.


I no, I agree with you. The NIE report has pretty much said that we have really done it to ourselves at this point. Iraq has created more hate towards the USA around the globe, recruited more terrorists, made us less safe in the long run.


Certainly the rhetoric coming out of our own countries regarding the baseless contentions about the true motives for the war has contributed to the arab's hatred of Americans.  Most importantly, however, is this administrations absolute failure on the public relations front.

I don't think they are totally baseless contentions.  We said we were going for WMDs....there were none.  Its pretty clear now there was a neo-con agenda to bring democracy to the arab middle east and establish a US friendly, oil rich state.  This war hasn't helped fight the war on terror, its created more terror(ists).

Anyways, we are going WAY off topic again....lets keep this thread talking about the article that Flagg posted.
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Surfrider
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« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2006, 08:06:07 PM »

^ Are you a culture warrior?
No, are you?
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Surfrider
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« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2006, 08:08:35 PM »

Most importantly, however, is this administrations absolute failure on the public relations front.


It's a PR thang huh?

Please elaborate.
They have failed to sell their policies and counter the baseless accusations against them.  If Bush could utter a coherent sentence, he could probably make out the case that our intentions in the middle east are noble.
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