Christianity declining in America

[WARose]

The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity.

the holocaust??

you`re mixing something up there.... believe me


if you read the source, it says only 11% say there is no god by the way...

[Axl4Prez2004]

The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity.

the holocaust??

you`re mixing something up there.... believe me


if you read the source, it says only 11% say there is no god by the way...

I think it's incorrect to put all the blame on "Christianity" when it comes to holy wars.  It's religion itself, in all of its organized forms that sets the stage for war. 

The 11% that say there is no god are just as misguided in my eyes as the % that says there definitely is a god or are gods.  Nobody has proof so a definitive yes or a definitive no are both incorrect.     

[kathryn2662]

Those are great values regardless of your spiritual/religious background. ?Now I'm no expert on the Bible, not even close, but weren't the Ten Commandments Old Testament? ?Whenever I punch up a ridiculously silly Old Testament quote I get the whole, "well that's old testament before Jesus came and made it al b etter in the new testament." ?Isn't worshipping false idols #1 because the writers wanted to send the message that it's either christianity or the highway??? ?

 well to clear up what -Jack- means by that is that Jesus was the filter to the old testamant and new.  The Bible is an overall respresentation of what life is life, it repsents a life that was brought down to be re-born again into new life.  The new testament is new life, the reason because is the fall of mankind after the first sin led us to old testament laws, God didnt like not being able to have direct relationship with people so He tore the veil that was between, which was Jesus.  We are to get taught and learn from the old testament, but we dont live under the law of the old testament, whatever we get from the old testament you have to always trace it through the "filter", some things remain the same, some things alter in small way, some in big, all to better existing way that was.  So yes, the ten commandments were made in the old testament, but crossed through the filter and they still remain the same.  It's like when you dig up gold, you have to sift it and let things fall out and then you have to rinse the gold even chip it into it's most valuable look like a ring for instance, that doesn't mean it wasnt gold along- you just have to sift it to it's best potential to where it's better valued and desirable to those who will want it.

[Communist China]

People are fed up with the polarization of religion and politics. They aren't voting because the only candidates that get nominated are the crazies and they aren't going to church because only the wackos get publicity.

[Kid A]

The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity.

....

Wow. Just....wow

Dont ya think maybe the Holocaust had slightly more to do with the Nazis looking for a ''solution'' to large numbers of jews in occupied territories?

Dont ya' think the Crusades might have been a response to Islamic forces attacking the Byzantine empire?

Please tell me you aren't allowed to vote....

Sorry forgive my blasphemy, the idea that I would even suggest that Christians are guilty of any crimes is obviously evil.

Well.. show your proof.

Why bother? I give up; I'll just believe all the stuff Father Ted tells me then.

Well if you can't back up your claims then why is anybody going to believe you?

Seems like you just avoid answering the question by being all defensive and moody.

And like I said, if you can show me something that backs your claim up.. then I'll have to reconsider.

Interested in seeing your response.

Well since you will just deny it anyway here?s something else:

The Inquisition was started and maintained by the Catholic Church during a time when Catholicism was the only Christian denomination (that is, if you were Christian, you were a Catholic). Christians were responsible for the expulsion and deaths of thousands of Jews and Muslims throughout Europe, many of which died of being burned at the stake, poor prison conditions, starvation during expulsion, and other types of torture and execution. According to historical records, non-Christians who repented where strangled and then burned and those who didn't repent were burned alive.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Those are great values regardless of your spiritual/religious background. ?Now I'm no expert on the Bible, not even close, but weren't the Ten Commandments Old Testament? ?Whenever I punch up a ridiculously silly Old Testament quote I get the whole, "well that's old testament before Jesus came and made it al b etter in the new testament." ?Isn't worshipping false idols #1 because the writers wanted to send the message that it's either christianity or the highway??? ?

 well to clear up what -Jack- means by that is that Jesus was the filter to the old testamant and new.? The Bible is an overall respresentation of what life is life, it repsents a life that was brought down to be re-born again into new life.? The new testament is new life, the reason because is the fall of mankind after the first sin led us to old testament laws, God didnt like not being able to have direct relationship with people so He tore the veil that was between, which was Jesus.? We are to get taught and learn from the old testament, but we dont live under the law of the old testament, whatever we get from the old testament you have to always trace it through the "filter", some things remain the same, some things alter in small way, some in big, all to better existing way that was.? So yes, the ten commandments were made in the old testament, but crossed through the filter and they still remain the same.? It's like when you dig up gold, you have to sift it and let things fall out and then you have to rinse the gold even chip it into it's most valuable look like a ring for instance, that doesn't mean it wasnt gold along- you just have to sift it to it's best potential to where it's better valued and desirable to those who will want it.

Rocket Queen,
  Thanks for the response...my only concern is with who's doing the sifting. 
In 2000 years we've learned alot about our origins, the animals, the plants, even the planet and solar sytem itself...some sifters would have you believe that science is wrong.  I find this unforgivable and flat-out ignorant.

[-Jack-]

The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity.

....

Wow. Just....wow

Dont ya think maybe the Holocaust had slightly more to do with the Nazis looking for a ''solution'' to large numbers of jews in occupied territories?

Dont ya' think the Crusades might have been a response to Islamic forces attacking the Byzantine empire?

Please tell me you aren't allowed to vote....

Sorry forgive my blasphemy, the idea that I would even suggest that Christians are guilty of any crimes is obviously evil.

Well.. show your proof.

Why bother? I give up; I'll just believe all the stuff Father Ted tells me then.

Well if you can't back up your claims then why is anybody going to believe you?

Seems like you just avoid answering the question by being all defensive and moody.

And like I said, if you can show me something that backs your claim up.. then I'll have to reconsider.

Interested in seeing your response.

Well since you will just deny it anyway here?s something else:

The Inquisition was started and maintained by the Catholic Church during a time when Catholicism was the only Christian denomination (that is, if you were Christian, you were a Catholic). Christians were responsible for the expulsion and deaths of thousands of Jews and Muslims throughout Europe, many of which died of being burned at the stake, poor prison conditions, starvation during expulsion, and other types of torture and execution. According to historical records, non-Christians who repented where strangled and then burned and those who didn't repent were burned alive.

Well, yeah I know about the Inquisition. Terrible thing for the church to do. But it was really just power hungry corrupt Church leaders. So while, they technically represented Christianity.. it's not really "Christian" or Christ-like of them. Like I said.. "Christian" is very much a blanket label... just like "liberal" "conservative" ect. It's not a real descriptive term. You can say your a Christian.. and really not be much of a Christ follower.

Anyways.. it seems as if, once again, you have no proof for your earlier accusations (Christianity causing the holocaust and The Holy Wars) and have tried to take the attention off your claims.

Are you going to admit you were just spouting out shit with no basis? Or do you have some proof? Because I'm still waiting for some evidence.

Looking forward to you saying "Well you'd never admit it anyways" or something to that effect. Show some evidence and I will. I think I've been more than reasonable during this conversation.

So put up or shut up. 

[kathryn2662]

Those are great values regardless of your spiritual/religious background. ?Now I'm no expert on the Bible, not even close, but weren't the Ten Commandments Old Testament? ?Whenever I punch up a ridiculously silly Old Testament quote I get the whole, "well that's old testament before Jesus came and made it al b etter in the new testament." ?Isn't worshipping false idols #1 because the writers wanted to send the message that it's either christianity or the highway??? ?

no problem .... I should have mentioned that haha- the One who did the sifting was Jesus, that's who I meant by the One who tore the veil and the One who is the filter, He did the sifting with the blood He shed on the cross.  It was His sacrifice so that we may have life and have it more abundant in all things, so we can have a direct relationship with God.  All we have to do is take that gift, He already did the work- He already did the sifting and the cleansing.  Now where people screw it up is they fail to actualy get to know the word, you have to grow in God's wisdom (which you dont get wise, it's an action word in this case that is daily given to you as you ask and read and live), in order to really understand all the hidden meanings that so many people only look to the surface of- that's why God's word has been twisted so much, time after time you hear verses that have almost become cliche' because it's been twisted into something horrible, people start listening to "christians" as apposed to growing in the Word themselves and hearing it straight from their Father themself on what the Word IS and MEANS.  It's the people who put it through the filter and sifter who fail to realize that you dont make up your own conclusion, that Jesus already has the final answer written in the new testament, where people screw up finding the fresh new piece of gold is when they have lack of knowledge and wisdom and just point to any verse and make up their own conclusions.  God wants us to practice the sifting so we can grow and understand His word, but the One who has already done the sifiting Who already gave the answer, is Jesus, finding the answer is part of growth and it becomes easier and easier to understand the more you grow in Him and the more He comes alive in you showing you and revealing Himself to you, and that fruit is evident in people.  Im a christian, and I as well as any christian I know can be the first to admitt that the reason why people turn away from God and and get a bad image of God is because of "christians", at the same time the reason why people's lives have been transformed into the most amazing loving fufilling lives with a vibrant relationship with their Saivor- is because of christians.  If you dont know your word and what God says about YOU, then you will never know to recognize which christian is really not and which is.  It's all the religious mean christians out there who arent walking and serving in the way christianity is supposed to be that turn it into a disgusting hippocritcal look- and unforunatly real followers get the penalty as well as Jesus, it's the ones who turn a relationship into religion.  People arent intresting in what people have to say, they look at how people live, and it's unfortunate that it's people who have stopped others from knowing God just based on how they live and how they treat people, it's sad that people base their own christianity resting on the faith and life of someone else's- see their hypocracy- and choose to leave it, when your own faith should not be based on someone else's faith because all people are human and christianity is not God-like- it's God-living.  The numbers right now might show a Christianity decline in America, but I can fully and strongly say that that is changing NOW, my church as well as so many across this country see an average of 30 people giving their lives to Jesus per service.  Our college career age holds over 2000 with rapid growth, coming from a church who's influencing and changing the world- hillsong, who holds a congregation of 22,000 on the weekend service alone.  All because people are catching on the realness of God instead of that fake garbage that "christians" are feeding people, God's raising up a generation who walk in who He is, not TALK in who they make up.  Sorry to go on and on, haha christianity just happens to be my favorite topic.   







 well to clear up what -Jack- means by that is that Jesus was the filter to the old testamant and new.? The Bible is an overall respresentation of what life is life, it repsents a life that was brought down to be re-born again into new life.? The new testament is new life, the reason because is the fall of mankind after the first sin led us to old testament laws, God didnt like not being able to have direct relationship with people so He tore the veil that was between, which was Jesus.? We are to get taught and learn from the old testament, but we dont live under the law of the old testament, whatever we get from the old testament you have to always trace it through the "filter", some things remain the same, some things alter in small way, some in big, all to better existing way that was.? So yes, the ten commandments were made in the old testament, but crossed through the filter and they still remain the same.? It's like when you dig up gold, you have to sift it and let things fall out and then you have to rinse the gold even chip it into it's most valuable look like a ring for instance, that doesn't mean it wasnt gold along- you just have to sift it to it's best potential to where it's better valued and desirable to those who will want it.

Rocket Queen,
? Thanks for the response...my only concern is with who's doing the sifting.?
In 2000 years we've learned alot about our origins, the animals, the plants, even the planet and solar sytem itself...some sifters would have you believe that science is wrong.? I find this unforgivable and flat-out ignorant.

[Kid A]

The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity.

....

Wow. Just....wow

Dont ya think maybe the Holocaust had slightly more to do with the Nazis looking for a ''solution'' to large numbers of jews in occupied territories?

Dont ya' think the Crusades might have been a response to Islamic forces attacking the Byzantine empire?

Please tell me you aren't allowed to vote....

Sorry forgive my blasphemy, the idea that I would even suggest that Christians are guilty of any crimes is obviously evil.

Well.. show your proof.

Why bother? I give up; I'll just believe all the stuff Father Ted tells me then.

Well if you can't back up your claims then why is anybody going to believe you?

Seems like you just avoid answering the question by being all defensive and moody.

And like I said, if you can show me something that backs your claim up.. then I'll have to reconsider.

Interested in seeing your response.

Well since you will just deny it anyway here?s something else:

The Inquisition was started and maintained by the Catholic Church during a time when Catholicism was the only Christian denomination (that is, if you were Christian, you were a Catholic). Christians were responsible for the expulsion and deaths of thousands of Jews and Muslims throughout Europe, many of which died of being burned at the stake, poor prison conditions, starvation during expulsion, and other types of torture and execution. According to historical records, non-Christians who repented where strangled and then burned and those who didn't repent were burned alive.

Well, yeah I know about the Inquisition. Terrible thing for the church to do. But it was really just power hungry corrupt Church leaders. So while, they technically represented Christianity.. it's not really "Christian" or Christ-like of them. Like I said.. "Christian" is very much a blanket label... just like "liberal" "conservative" ect. It's not a real descriptive term. You can say your a Christian.. and really not be much of a Christ follower.

Anyways.. it seems as if, once again, you have no proof for your earlier accusations (Christianity causing the holocaust and The Holy Wars) and have tried to take the attention off your claims.

Are you going to admit you were just spouting out shit with no basis? Or do you have some proof? Because I'm still waiting for some evidence.

Looking forward to you saying "Well you'd never admit it anyways" or something to that effect. Show some evidence and I will. I think I've been more than reasonable during this conversation.

So put up or shut up.?

You can't keep saying there not really Christians cause that?s a lame argument, you have the Internet yourself so if you want to see proof use a search engine.

[kathryn2662]

I've been tryin to read yalls posts and make some sort of sense out of them, even the smallest amount.  I think, which I could be wrong, are you trying to say that it's in the christian belief to kill and do horrible things like the haulocost and stoning and backing those statements up with examples of people's actions who claim to be christians?  The christian belief is a relationship, not rules- those are a choice you make, the christian belief is and ONLY is the life of Jesus, who christian are to aim to be like and we try and the only way for that to be successful is by having a relationship with Him because the more you draw near the more He comes alive in you and that reflects out of you- where some how along the way people have mistaked that for 'if you arent doing EXACTLY what He did and would do then you arent a christian', being a christian is being HUMAN making mistakes and confessing your need for a Savior, look at every person in the Bible, all misfits chosen by God to do His work.  King David was an adulterer and murdered an innocent man to cover his mistake, but He was fit in God's eyes because He said "he's a man after My own heart", the christian belief isnt to committ adultery and murder BUT by grace He is forgiven to overcome and live for God.

Abraham was old, Jacob was insecure, Leah was unattractive, Joseph was abused, Moses stuttered and had a temper, Gideon was poor, Sampson was codependent, Rahab was immoral, David had an affair murdered and all kinds of family problems, Elijah was suicidal, Jeremiah was depressed, Jonah was reluctant, Naomi was a widow, John the Baptist was eccentric to say the least, Peter was impulsive and hot-tempered, Martha worried alot, the Samaritan woman had several failed marriages, Zacchaeus was unpopular, Thomas had doubts, Paul had poor health and murdered christians in the past, and Timothy was timid.  This is quite a variety of misfits, but God used each of them in His service.  Because the christian way is not about doing or being perfect, it's about being human just like everyone else, making mistakes, then forth confessing your need of a Savior, growing in relationship with Him to be more like Him, doesnt mean you cant screw up along the way.  So you cant use peoples mistakes and bad living to define what christianity is.  Some people stop their christianity at salvation, and dont grow and live in it, those are the christians you dont want to look at for example of christianity- they are going to Heaven but arent doing the call and will of God on their life.  You can look to real christians on what's is like to be a christian, but you are to look to God to see how to be a christian and what it means and it should be.  So those examples of "christian murderers" dont work, christian is what they so call happen to call themselves- and they might or might not go to Heaven, but it doesnt mean that that is what Christianity beliefs are.  It's like saying, Im a white theif, yeah Im white- that's true, but doesnt mean all white people are theifs and doesnt mean it's in the heart of all white people to be a theif.

[Annie]

I really like that Texas preacher Joel Osteen, he preaches from the heart. I like to listen to him but  I still believe in reincarnation and talking to dead people.

[kathryn2662]

I really like that Texas preacher Joel Osteen, he preaches from the heart. I like to listen to him but? I still believe in reincarnation and talking to dead people.

I love hearin him preach too  .... he's an amazing pastor

[Axl4Prez2004]

Rocket Queen, I think you summed up alot of the problems I have with Christianity in your post unfortunately. ?Call me crazy, but if there is a heaven and hell...I don't care if you "give your life to Jesus Christ," or "repent for all your sins," if you kill somebody or lie, cheat, and steal a whole hell of alot, you'd be in hell. ?

But...and a very big but...I'm talkin' a J-Lo size butt...how do you wrestle with the confounding problem of how we become what we are. ?Is it a murderer's fault that he or she was never taught impulse control? ?Is it a sexual molester's fault that he or she was taught to fondle from an early age? ?Is it a cold, hateful man or woman's fault if he or she is from a cold and unloving home? ?In my eyes no. ?It's just one of the reasons I personally do not believe in a heaven or hell. ?

I believe this is the only life we've got, and dammit, you've got to use it wisely. ?Try to make the most responsible decisions you can. ?Plan for the future. ?Think things through. ?Try to do the right thing based on how it will impact your fellow man. ?Be nice. ?Be tolerant. ?Be strong to prevent others from taking away your rights.

I'm always amazed when I ask a religious friend of mine what he would do if there was no God. ?To him, with no God, there is no reason why he just couldn't act on every animal impulse he ever had. ?If nobody's looking, why not take what you want? ?In his eyes, God is always watching, and in the long run heaven's the pay-off. ?Looking at it from a political perspective, the concept of God becomes an ally to order. ?I think it's a shame most people haven't matured enough to realize that being a good person doesn't have a damn thing to do with belief or non-belief in God, or worship or non-worship of God. ?I don't know if there's a or are God/s or not, but I live a good life. ?I actually think it's more noble to lead a good life without the expectation of a pay-off (heaven) at the end of the road. ? ?

[-Jack-]

You can't keep saying there not really Christians cause that?s a lame argument, you have the Internet yourself so if you want to see proof use a search engine.

What a cop out. You just make big claims and then can't back it up.

Like I said... prove it. Back up your talk with substance. But I see you've deleted your account.

Anyways, in the real world when you say something like that you better be able to prove it or you end up being looked at like a fool.

Later bro.

[kathryn2662]

Rocket Queen, I think you summed up alot of the problems I have with Christianity in your post unfortunately. ?Call me crazy, but if there is a heaven and hell...I don't care if you "give your life to Jesus Christ," or "repent for all your sins," if you kill somebody or lie, cheat, and steal a whole hell of alot, you'd be in hell. ?

But...and a very big but...I'm talkin' a J-Lo size butt...how do you wrestle with the confounding problem of how we become what we are. ?Is it a murderer's fault that he or she was never taught impulse control? ?Is it a sexual molester's fault that he or she was taught to fondle from an early age? ?Is it a cold, hateful man or woman's fault if he or she is from a cold and unloving home? ?In my eyes no. ?It's just one of the reasons I personally do not believe in a heaven or hell. ?

I believe this is the only life we've got, and dammit, you've got to use it wisely. ?Try to make the most responsible decisions you can. ?Plan for the future. ?Think things through. ?Try to do the right thing based on how it will impact your fellow man. ?Be nice. ?Be tolerant. ?Be strong to prevent others from taking away your rights.

I'm always amazed when I ask a religious friend of mine what he would do if there was no God. ?To him, with no God, there is no reason why he just couldn't act on every animal impulse he ever had. ?If nobody's looking, why not take what you want? ?In his eyes, God is always watching, and in the long run heaven's the pay-off. ?Looking at it from a political perspective, the concept of God becomes an ally to order. ?I think it's a shame most people haven't matured enough to realize that being a good person doesn't have a damn thing to do with belief or non-belief in God, or worship or non-worship of God. ?I don't know if there's a or are God/s or not, but I live a good life. ?I actually think it's more noble to lead a good life without the expectation of a pay-off (heaven) at the end of the road. ? ?

well that's kind of exactly, in a way, the point I was making.  Doing good or bad things is not what makes you a christian, you can kill and steal and ect.. and still go to Heaven, and being a christian isnt about how good and how many rules you can follow, christians do good because of DAILY choices they consciencely have to choose to do and work on through a process.  In a sense, no it's not those peoples faults that they werent raised in a way that they werent able to control their actions so they murdered, that's where mercy and compasson come in, and a provided way to renew the mind and take accountability for their actions to change.  Heaven is not the ticket it to all the good and righteous people, God recognizes we are human and our nature to sin, Heaven is for all those who call on His name in faith, it's as simple as that.  We have become as we are because we are at a fallen state.  When man was first created we were sinless and had open relationship with God, but when man sinned was the fall of mankind, so God understands that it is in our nature- by human nature to sin, but it's up to us to take accountability to DAILY choose the right way, when we slip and fall a thousand times God has mercy enough to pick us back up as many times as we need, it's not about where you are on the road as long as you are moving forward.  He doesnt look at a sinner an think "oh my gosh! Im shocked!" He knows what mankind is like and that is why He is compassionate to forgive a murderer even if they murdered 1000 times, just how He called Paul to do His ministry and called him WHILE hew as murdering christians, it was Pauls CHOICE to leave that life.  As far as your beliefs, Im not referring to that, Im just saying what is fact in christianity.  And Im not religious, that's the whole reason why Jesus came, to kill religion.  Baisicaly you can sum up christianity into this, Love God, Love life, Love people.

[Mr. Dick Purple]

Things like this thread is the reason why religion sucks, I only hope people behave better with or without christianity, islam, budaism or whatever other religion you want to be part of.