Christianity declining in America

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Just wait a few weeks when christmas is approaching. Should be interesting to see when someone gets offended again by a nativity scene.

Let people make their own judgements and choices without shoving religious ideals down peoples throats, but to allow a public display in observance of one religious holiday and not another is wrong.

[Kid A]

The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity.

Blaming the Holocaust on Christianity has no basis.

Blame Hitler for that. Hitler was into the occult, not Christianity.

[Kid A]

The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity.

Blaming the Holocaust on Christianity has no basis.

Blame Hitler for that. Hitler was into the occult, not Christianity.

Is there a souce other than comedy/horror and Christian made films?

[-Jack-]

I think Jack is referring to Christian Values as:

love they neighbor
don't lie
don't steal
dont' kill
be a good person
be forgiving

etc....

I don't think he means the religous rights version of "christian values".  those nut jobs have hijacked the religion and turned it into something bad.  I think thats where all the anger is coming from in this thread.  whether you are religous or not, you can't argue that the values i listed above are bad.  I think thats what Jack was referring to.  Correct me if I'm wrong of course.

Yeah exactly. I'm not talking about the hidden agenda "Christians" who play off emotion and guilt trips.

The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity.

The Holocaust thanks to Christianity? The holocaust is thanks to a crazy bastard named Hitler. And don't "Hitler was a Christian" me... I can say "I'm a llama" and not be a llama.

As for the Holy Wars.. I'd blame that on The Roman Catholic Church... which, well... really just another example of hidden agenda "Christians." (That wasn't a bash against Catholics.. just the institution and administration of the Church in those times.. talk about corruption and lies. Really not Christian at all..)

[Chelle]

It's very sad to me, personally. 

[Bud Fox]

The original US Constitution was a failure. It made a mockery of the phrase "All men are created equal", and allowed the South to set up a proto-Nazi state, complete with a Master Race and concentration camps. In 1865, this was corrected. Unfortunately it is under attack again by the current administration.

God forbid if people actually believed in state rights.  Your statement shows how little you know about the civil war and society at the time. 

Tell Bud Fox that "all men created equal" was not a complete farce leading up to the civil war, and he'll call you a liar.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity.

Blaming the Holocaust on Christianity has no basis.

Blame Hitler for that. Hitler was into the occult, not Christianity.

Is there a souce other than comedy/horror and Christian made films?

Study your history.

Youll find a source there. Christians are not responsible for the holocaust.

Maybe the Iranian government would tell you the holocaust never happened. Dont use them as a source.

[The Dog]

Dudes, don't even responsd to this nonsense that christianity led to the holocaust.  just retarded.

I am no fan of the radical right christians/evangelicals - but nobody can argue and say that "christian values" are a bad thing.  If you are PRO murder, lying, cheating, stealing, etc.... then maybe you can argue it. haha.  I think this thread is geting off topic, its not really about christianity but the "decline of moral values" in america.....

keep that in mind before you start blaming christians for shit that happened decades or even centuries ago.....  For all the bad things religion has done, there are plenty of good things.

[Izzy]

The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity.

....

Wow. Just....wow

Dont ya think maybe the Holocaust had slightly more to do with the Nazis looking for a ''solution'' to large numbers of jews in occupied territories?

Dont ya' think the Crusades might have been a response to Islamic forces attacking the Byzantine empire?

Please tell me you aren't allowed to vote....

[Axl4Prez2004]

I just got back this morning from the Jersey show. ?For some reason, being on 3 1/2 hours sleep, post-show, I feel really good! ?If you get drunk, drink plenty o' water like me boys!

Now, for -Jack-, I apologize for being a dick. ?You sound like someone I consider to be a "cool Christian." ?I mean that out of respect. ?You made some nice posts in this thread, and I'm sorry I lumped you in with all the intolerant right-wing Christian nut-jobs. ?I have all the respect in the world for Jesus. ?Personally, I believe he was a very good man who for the most part did his best to help this world. ?Unfortunately, many have used his message to further their own agendas, their prizes being power and money. ?

HannaHat mentioned these values earlier:
love they neighbor
don't lie
don't steal
dont' kill
be a good person
be forgiving

etc....

Those are great values regardless of your spiritual/religious background. ?Now I'm no expert on the Bible, not even close, but weren't the Ten Commandments Old Testament? ?Whenever I punch up a ridiculously silly Old Testament quote I get the whole, "well that's old testament before Jesus came and made it al b etter in the new testament." ?Isn't worshipping false idols #1 because the writers wanted to send the message that it's either christianity or the highway??? ?

[pilferk]

People need to realize that religious extremists are just that, and not representative of an entire set of beliefs or an entire culture.....there is nothing inherently wrong with Christianity...just as there is nothing inherently wrong with the Muslim religion or the Buddhist religion or...any other set of core values that attempt to preach being good to your fellow man.? The problem is taking any of those doctines to an extreme, and attempting to force others to live "their" (meaning the extremists) way of life.  Not every Christian advocates the bombing of abortion centers.  Not every Muslim advocates blowing up buses full of commuters.

And that goes for BOTH sides of most of the political arguments, I might add.

[Mal Brossard]

I think Jack is referring to Christian Values as:

love thy neighbor
don't lie
don't steal
don't kill
be a good person
be forgiving

etc.

So why exactly are these CHRISTIAN values rather than Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan, or Pagan values?  Someone care to field this one?

Could it be possibly as Axl4Pres2004 said "the writers wanted to send the message that it's either christianity or the highway"?  Just present it as "Christian" values and say "well see, we have the same values, just go along with what we say, it's all besically the same" when really they aren't the same.  That's why Christmas is in December rather than the more historically likely date of mid-February-- it was made to coincide with the festival of Saturnalia when the Roman Empire converted to Catholicism.

I have no problem with the decline of Christianity as the religion has come to be in the present times, marked by anti-gay, anti-porn, anti-abortion, pro-war, pro-school prayer, pro-Israel extremists, ones who equate the Christian religion with morality.  And before you go saying I'm lumping the bad in with the good, ask the average person to name some Christian leaders.  They'll likely name off great folks like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Ralph Reed, James Dobson, Randall Terry, and Tim LaHaye.  Maybe even Bush, Santorum, and a few politicians.  Frankly, if I were a true Christian, one who is opposed to the religious right, I would be happy to hear about a declining of the religion in this country.  Maybe it would lead to an increase in the good Christians or even an increase in other religions.

The world needs an increase in spirituality and morality, not necessarily an increase in religion.

[The Dog]

I think Jack is referring to Christian Values as:

love thy neighbor
don't lie
don't steal
don't kill
be a good person
be forgiving

etc.

So why exactly are these CHRISTIAN values rather than Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan, or Pagan values?  Someone care to field this one?

I agree with you, those values are not restricted to only christians and are present in all of the major religions in the world.    Again, I think some people are focusing too much on his use of the term "christian values" rather then what he was really trying to get at....

i also agree with your take on the religious right, they are assholes.

[-Jack-]

I think Jack is referring to Christian Values as:

love thy neighbor
don't lie
don't steal
don't kill
be a good person
be forgiving

etc.

So why exactly are these CHRISTIAN values rather than Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan, or Pagan values?  Someone care to field this one?

No, you are right.

And yes, you are right, good morals and values ARE universal, but in America, these values were brought by Protestant Christians, so, most people <edit: most people in the U.S> just say "Christian values" instead of "Universally taught values."

I was only calling them Christian values because the thread was "Christianity declining in America"... but, the values are universal.

[Kid A]

The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity.

....

Wow. Just....wow

Dont ya think maybe the Holocaust had slightly more to do with the Nazis looking for a ''solution'' to large numbers of jews in occupied territories?

Dont ya' think the Crusades might have been a response to Islamic forces attacking the Byzantine empire?

Please tell me you aren't allowed to vote....

Sorry forgive my blasphemy, the idea that I would even suggest that Christians are guilty of any crimes is obviously evil.

[-Jack-]

The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity.

....

Wow. Just....wow

Dont ya think maybe the Holocaust had slightly more to do with the Nazis looking for a ''solution'' to large numbers of jews in occupied territories?

Dont ya' think the Crusades might have been a response to Islamic forces attacking the Byzantine empire?

Please tell me you aren't allowed to vote....

Sorry forgive my blasphemy, the idea that I would even suggest that Christians are guilty of any crimes is obviously evil.

Well.. show your proof.

[Kid A]

The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity.

....

Wow. Just....wow

Dont ya think maybe the Holocaust had slightly more to do with the Nazis looking for a ''solution'' to large numbers of jews in occupied territories?

Dont ya' think the Crusades might have been a response to Islamic forces attacking the Byzantine empire?

Please tell me you aren't allowed to vote....

Sorry forgive my blasphemy, the idea that I would even suggest that Christians are guilty of any crimes is obviously evil.

Well.. show your proof.

Why bother? I give up; I'll just believe all the stuff Father Ted tells me then.

[-Jack-]

The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity.

....

Wow. Just....wow

Dont ya think maybe the Holocaust had slightly more to do with the Nazis looking for a ''solution'' to large numbers of jews in occupied territories?

Dont ya' think the Crusades might have been a response to Islamic forces attacking the Byzantine empire?

Please tell me you aren't allowed to vote....

Sorry forgive my blasphemy, the idea that I would even suggest that Christians are guilty of any crimes is obviously evil.

Well.. show your proof.

Why bother? I give up; I'll just believe all the stuff Father Ted tells me then.

Well if you can't back up your claims then why is anybody going to believe you?

Seems like you just avoid answering the question by being all defensive and moody.

And like I said, if you can show me something that backs your claim up.. then I'll have to reconsider.

Interested in seeing your response.

[Surfrider]

I think Jack is referring to Christian Values as:

love thy neighbor
don't lie
don't steal
don't kill
be a good person
be forgiving

etc.

So why exactly are these CHRISTIAN values rather than Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan, or Pagan values?? Someone care to field this one?

Well, the main religions all connect to each other to some extent.  Most other religions also have these values.  However, the term is often coined Christian values because it was Christians that spread these values on the west.  Are these not Christian values?  That sure seems like a weird point for you to contest.