Christianity declining in America

[Walk]

http://www.wsmv.com/family/10210202/detail.html

[Booker Floyd]

Hopefully

[Axl4Prez2004]

...and I thought all the news lately was bad.      Just kidding, I could care less if it was thriving, as long as it's not shoved in my face or down my throat.   

[-Jack-]

America was built on Christian values and morals.. as long as the values and morals are around.. I really don't care.

However, theres been a dangerous trend recently... anything remotely Christian has been shunned like the plague.. including the original values and morals of the country. We need to find a nice balance.

And btw, I don't mean Christian morals as in "Gay's are against god!"... that's actually pretty un-christian if you ask me and only held by a far right "Christian" minority. (Sadly it effects the world's perception of all American Christians..)

[Axl4Prez2004]

-Jack-? return to the original values and morals of this country?

We had this thing called slavery.? We had this deal where we could even bang the female slaves!? Even our great founding father Thomas Jefferson, great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather of George Jefferson from The Jeffersons, had his, I think her name was Sally.
 
We had this deal where we could beat the shit out of our wives.? Yeah, it was alot tamer than what the Bible tells us to do to our wives if when we marry them they turn out not to be virgins.? Yeah, I do believe it tells you to stone them to death.? I really wish we'd return to the morals and values of the 1st century current era.

What's with all the seafood houses in this nation of ours?? I do believe the good book, in the very same passage that says homosexuality is an abomination, tells us never to eat seafood. (edit, that's shellfish, sorry!)? ?

Let's see, what else...Salem, Massachussetts.? We were dunking witches!?

Women didn't have the right to vote.

"Christian morals and values," what a crock.? Good morals and values are universal across all beliefs and non-beliefs.? Be a good person.? Be kind.? Be tolerant.? If you disagree with a lifestyle, keep it to yourself.? Be a shining example of your faith and/or belief, and if you shine brightly enough, folks may just want to be like you, if that's what floats your boat.? Keep your holy book at home and not in my court room.? Keep your holy book at home and not in my child's science classroom.? Thank you.? ?? ?

[SLCPUNK]

The sooner the better...............

[Bud Fox]

The original US Constitution was a failure. It made a mockery of the phrase "All men are created equal", and allowed the South to set up a proto-Nazi state, complete with a Master Race and concentration camps. In 1865, this was corrected. Unfortunately it is under attack again by the current administration.

[Guns N RockMusic]

The original US Constitution was a failure. It made a mockery of the phrase "All men are created equal", and allowed the South to set up a proto-Nazi state, complete with a Master Race and concentration camps. In 1865, this was corrected. Unfortunately it is under attack again by the current administration.

God forbid if people actually believed in state rights.? Your statement shows how little you know about the civil war and society at the time.? Grant had slaves and he was the leader of the Union Army.? Lincoln didn't even free Northern Slaves in the Emancipation Proclamation.? And you know why, because the American Civil War wasn't about slavery.? That's the bullshit they feed to children to prevent them from looking at the issue objectively.? Everyone is against Slavery, so if Lincoln was freeing the Slaves, whatever he did must have been right.? It doesn't matter how many times he broke the constitution or the fact that he single handedly increased the size of the government more so than anyone else, save maybe FDR.?
? ?Nazis were socialist with a strong central government, they were fucking fascist.? The South was anything but.? This just goes to show how ignorant you are and how certain catch words like Nazis are thrown out to discredit something with out any real understanding of what it means.? I'm just shocked you actually supported a war Republicans got us into.? Maybe in 140 years you'll support the war in Iraq too - with your revisionist and simpleton history of course.

[-Jack-]

-Jack-  return to the original values and morals of this country?

We had this thing called slavery.  We had this deal where we could even bang the female slaves!  Even our great founding father Thomas Jefferson, great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather of George Jefferson from The Jeffersons, had his, I think her name was Sally.
 
We had this deal where we could beat the shit out of our wives.  Yeah, it was alot tamer than what the Bible tells us to do to our wives if when we marry them they turn out not to be virgins.  Yeah, I do believe it tells you to stone them to death.  I really wish we'd return to the morals and values of the 1st century current era.

What's with all the seafood houses in this nation of ours?  I do believe the good book, in the very same passage that says homosexuality is an abomination, tells us never to eat seafood. (edit, that's shellfish, sorry!)   

Let's see, what else...Salem, Massachussetts.  We were dunking witches! 

Women didn't have the right to vote.

"Christian morals and values," what a crock.  Good morals and values are universal across all beliefs and non-beliefs.  Be a good person.  Be kind.  Be tolerant.  If you disagree with a lifestyle, keep it to yourself.  Be a shining example of your faith and/or belief, and if you shine brightly enough, folks may just want to be like you, if that's what floats your boat.  Keep your holy book at home and not in my court room.  Keep your holy book at home and not in my child's science classroom.  Thank you.      

I don't remember slavery, forced sex, wife beating/stoning, or witch burnings mentioned anywhere in the bible, or by Jesus... In fact, didn't he save an adulterer from being stoned? . Your confusing the acts of so called "Christians" with actual Christian teachings. And your also confusing the teachings of Jesus Christ with Hebrew laws from the old testament, which by the way, Jesus came to change.

You just seem to be confused... "Christian" is really just a label anyways. And yeah, I agree it's sad that "religious" right-wings and twisted people have taken their hidden agendas and put the label "Christian values!" on them... but, really it's just a label.

God does not hate gays.. Jesus does not hate gays.. it's one verse in the stupid old testament that millions upon millions of people get hung up on. Ridiculous. And you know what the problem is? So called "Christians" pick and choose shit. "Oh, well, we don't like gays.. so that verse counts... but we do like sea food and we don't want to stone our wives... so, that verse doesn't count!"... it just makes real Christ followers look bad.

Last time I checked, Christian values were forgiveness, humbleness, tolerance, and love. That's what Jesus taught. And yes, you are right, good morals and values ARE universal, but in America, these values were brought by Protestant Christians, so, most people just say "Christian values" instead of "Universally taught values."

The point is.. if Christianity is declining in America, I feel like MAYBE it's a sign of declining moral decency. I mean, Common decency. (Not just Christian decency  ) Living in LA.. just seems like people are more restless and violent. I don't know. Maybe that's just here.

I understand why you got upset.. but understand, I'm not some preacher guy.. I think most people on the forum would tell ya I'm a pretty cool guy. And this is the first time I've mentioned religion on this forum.. so, don't think I'm trying to be all "Im better than you are cause I'm a saved Christian, HEATHEN!" 

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Anyways, about the US. Constitution, it was pretty revolutionary.. shame that people were too cowardly to add "no slavery" laws to it.

Oh well.

But, seriously.. check out a government class if you haven't already, you really get an understanding for all that.

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      -jack

[The Dog]

Hoping for more blood shed in Iraq certainly isn't a very Christian thing to hope for 

[-Jack-]

Hoping for more blood shed in Iraq certainly isn't a very Christian thing to hope for 

I hope this isn't directed towards me right?

And yeah, it's not at all.

[Mama Kin]

America was built on Christian values and morals..

All men are created equal, except Indians and blacks and women, huh?


 :love:Those Christian morals!!

[Mama Kin]

Hoping for more blood shed in Iraq certainly isn't a very Christian thing to hope for?

Read the Bible, actually, it is!

[-Jack-]

America was built on Christian values and morals..

All men are created equal, except Indians and blacks and women, huh?


 :love:Those Christian morals!!

Did you even read my post?

I understand Axl4Prez2004's responce to my post.. because I really didn't explain.. but your's is just refusal to read. Ignorance actually...

I don't remember slavery, forced sex, wife beating/stoning, (EDIT for you Mama Kin: Native American and African American discrimination,) or witch burnings mentioned anywhere in the bible, or by Jesus... In fact, didn't he save an adulterer from being stoned? Huh. Your confusing the acts of so called "Christians" with actual Christian teachings. And your also confusing the teachings of Jesus Christ with Hebrew laws from the old testament, which by the way, Jesus came to change.

You just seem to be confused... "Christian" is really just a label anyways. And yeah, I agree it's sad that "religious" right-wings and twisted people have taken their hidden agendas and put the label "Christian values!" on them... but, really it's just a label.

God does not hate gays.. Jesus does not hate gays.. it's one verse in the stupid old testament that millions upon millions of people get hung up on. Ridiculous. And you know what the problem is? So called "Christians" pick and choose shit. "Oh, well, we don't like gays.. so that verse counts... but we do like sea food and we don't want to stone our wives... so, that verse doesn't count!"... it just makes real Christ followers look bad.

Last time I checked, Christian values were forgiveness, humbleness, tolerance, and love. That's what Jesus taught. And yes, you are right, good morals and values ARE universal, but in America, these values were brought by Protestant Christians, so, most people just say "Christian values" instead of "Universally taught values."

The point is.. if Christianity is declining in America, I feel like MAYBE it's a sign of declining moral decency. I mean, Common decency. (Not just Christian decency  Wink) Living in LA.. just seems like people are more restless and violent. I don't know. Maybe that's just here.

I understand why you got upset.. but understand, I'm not some preacher guy.. I think most people on the forum would tell ya I'm a pretty cool guy. And this is the first time I've mentioned religion on this forum.. so, don't think I'm trying to be all "Im better than you are cause I'm a saved Christian, HEATHEN!"  hihi

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Hoping for more blood shed in Iraq certainly isn't a very Christian thing to hope for 

Read the Bible, actually, it is!

Point me towards this verse oh great bible scholar.

[Mama Kin]

America was built by land-owning slave holders who suggested their class be the only one allowed to vote. They fled to Britan to escape such pesky laws such as slave ownership. Yes, they were Christians, but the idea of "Christian morals" is fuckin' laughable. As though they were no decent people before Christ.

[Brody]

Hoping for more blood shed in Iraq certainly isn't a very Christian thing to hope for 

Read the Bible, actually, it is!

Point me towards this verse oh great bible scholar.

Yea I would like to find this one too! All those days at Sunday school and bible camp never once had i heard anything like this!

[Mama Kin]

2 Kings 10:23 And Jehu went, and Jehonadab the son of Rechab, into the house of Baal, and said to the worshipers of Baal, Search, and look that there are here with you none of the servants of the LORD, but the worshipers of Baal only. 10:24 And when they went in to offer sacrifices and burnt-offerings, Jehu appointed eighty men without, and said, [If] any of the men whom I have brought into your hands escape, [he that letteth him go], his life [shall be] for the life of him. 10:25 And it came to pass, as soon as he had made an end of offering the burnt-offering, that Jehu said to the guard and to the captains, Go in, [and] slay them; let none come forth. And they smote them with the edge of the sword; and the guard and the captains cast [them] out, and went to the city of the house of Baal. 10:26 And they brought forth the images out of the house of Baal, and burned them. 10:27 And they broke down the image of Baal, and broke down the house of Baal, and made it a draught-house to this day. 10:28 Thus Jehu destroyed Baal out of Israel.


1 Samuel 15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember [that] which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid [wait] for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

Deut. 2:33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. 2:34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones of every city, we left none to remain. 2:35 Only the cattle we took for a prey to ourselves, and the spoil of the cities which we took.

1 Kings 9:21 Their children that were left after them in the land, whom the children of Israel also were not able utterly to destroy, upon those did Solomon levy a tribute of bond-service to this day.

Rev. 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given to him to scorch men with fire. 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, who hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven, because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.


There's a few.

[-Jack-]

America was built by land-owning slave holders who suggested their class be the only one allowed to vote.

Have you ever read any of the Federalist papers? Anything by the founding fathers? I'd like to see some proof brought up to the table, and then perhaps I can change my mind. If by "class" you mean property owners... then yes, it was suggested that only property owners could vote. But, certainly not SLAVE OWNING property owners only.

And even then, who cares if they SUGGESTED that only property owners could vote? In the end, as you may know, they chose to allow others voting rights. Not all.. but its not like you suggest. Anyways... I still don't understand what this has to do with Christian morals or values.. as, it wasn't very Christian.

They fled to Britan to escape such pesky laws such as slave ownership.

Prove it. Last time I checked they left because of religious persecution.

Yes, they were Christians, but the idea of "Christian morals" is fuckin' laughable. As though they were no decent people before Christ.

Your putting words into my mouth.

If you read my last post you would have READ what I said.

It just sounds like you yourself have an agenda...

I never said you couldn't be decent and non Christian.

Looking forward to your responce.

Last time I checked, Christian values were forgiveness, humbleness, tolerance, and love. That's what Jesus taught. And yes, you are right, good morals and values ARE universal, but in America, these values were brought by Protestant Christians, so, most people just say "Christian values" instead of "Universally taught values."

2 Kings 10:23 And Jehu went, and Jehonadab the son of Rechab, into the house of Baal, and said to the worshipers of Baal, Search, and look that there are here with you none of the servants of the LORD, but the worshipers of Baal only. 10:24 And when they went in to offer sacrifices and burnt-offerings, Jehu appointed eighty men without, and said, [If] any of the men whom I have brought into your hands escape, [he that letteth him go], his life [shall be] for the life of him. 10:25 And it came to pass, as soon as he had made an end of offering the burnt-offering, that Jehu said to the guard and to the captains, Go in, [and] slay them; let none come forth. And they smote them with the edge of the sword; and the guard and the captains cast [them] out, and went to the city of the house of Baal. 10:26 And they brought forth the images out of the house of Baal, and burned them. 10:27 And they broke down the image of Baal, and broke down the house of Baal, and made it a draught-house to this day. 10:28 Thus Jehu destroyed Baal out of Israel.


1 Samuel 15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember [that] which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid [wait] for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

Deut. 2:33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. 2:34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones of every city, we left none to remain. 2:35 Only the cattle we took for a prey to ourselves, and the spoil of the cities which we took.

1 Kings 9:21 Their children that were left after them in the land, whom the children of Israel also were not able utterly to destroy, upon those did Solomon levy a tribute of bond-service to this day.

Rev. 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given to him to scorch men with fire. 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, who hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven, because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.


There's a few.

All your quotes prove what? That Christians rejoice in killing?  I don't think so...

Also, notice where all your quotes (except one) are from.. the Old Testament... I really don't put too much into that. Even then, they don't show any rejoice in the killing.

As for your quote from Revelations... what does that have to do with Christians rejoicing the bloodshed in Iraq?

You seem misinformed.. I don't know what eles to say.

[The Dog]

I think Jack is referring to Christian Values as:

love they neighbor
don't lie
don't steal
dont' kill
be a good person
be forgiving

etc....

I don't think he means the religous rights version of "christian values".  those nut jobs have hijacked the religion and turned it into something bad.  I think thats where all the anger is coming from in this thread.  whether you are religous or not, you can't argue that the values i listed above are bad.  I think thats what Jack was referring to.  Correct me if I'm wrong of course.

[Stones]

1. You base too much of your opinions and view of the world on these polls and message boards.

2. This poll was an online poll, and didn't account against people clicking twice. so basically this poll is useless.

3. Wonder what a poll taken of all the residents in hell, I wonder how many of them would believe.