John Fuckin' Kerry sticks his foot in his mouth again! Disrespects U.S troops!

[Guns N RockMusic]

You do know Kerry was? D student right?? Bush at least was a C.? Bush has his MBA too, Kerry doesn't.

I do.. That's why I think the joke about Bush was flawed and _really_ not thought through. But I still believe that that's what it was. A joke about Bush.

To see you go as low as to say you won't bother replying properly just because they're not nearly as intelligent as you, or to use that against people, kinda saddens me, when I compare this to the Randall Flagg I saw at the other 'hot subject' of late. I really think you had some good ideas there based on the information that you had (not saying they were right or wrong, but from your viewpoint they followed a certain logic. But let's not bring that here).


To both sides involved. Do _not_ make this about anything else that it is.. Bringing Vets supportlists (or requesting them), bringing Bush's war records has gone _way_ off topic. It can be said that stuff like that is needed to back up the main argument, but the main argument has yet again been shifted from the topic.

Stay on topic.

I'm sorry I got worked up and acted like a dipshit, I really am.  But when I see a topic as interesting as this one filled with smiley faces and distortions and assumptions of what Kerry meant or said, I got a little pissed.  Again, I apologize for my choice of words earlier.  It just drives me nuts how people take every word Bush says and analyze and exaggerate it to some secret agenda, but Kerry's words are crystal clear and somehow I don't possess the reading comprehension to understand the TRUE meaning of his words.  At least the Kerry followers are consistent.  No matter who you are, you never mean what you say.   Kerry could shit on a cripple and people here would argue that he didn't do it as a form of disrespect, it had deeper meaning that I can't grasp.


On a side note, Bandita my reading comprehension is just fine.  If someone says they like grapes, I accept that they like grapes.  You however accept that they like watermelon and grapes were just a joke or codeword for something else.  Which one of us is having a hard time grasping critical thought?

[Guns N RockMusic]

I've never made any comment about family members

Journey your grandfather wasn't the same liberal as these yahoos.?

You never answered my question, though.

Really?? Please details the differences bewteen Journeys grandfathers political beliefs and Dick Durbins,? or maybe Russ Feingolds.

Booker, obviously the definition of liberal continues to move further and further left as society progresses.? It was liberal 80 years ago to support the right of woman to vote.? It was liberal to advocate slavery be abolished.? It's now liberal to condone socialism where 50 years ago that was unheard of in this country.? A WWI and WWII vet certainly wouldn't be classifed as a liberal by today's extreme standards.? It used to be Democrats and Republicans both served their country equally, that's just not the case anymore.? Although the term liberal itself can be ambiguous.? I myself am a social liberal, but an economic conservative aka libertarian.? In what aspect was Journey's grandfather liberal and where would his views fall in today's America?? Michael Moore is a textbook liberal, as is Ted Kennedy, George Soros etc.? Would her grandfather aling with these people?? Although I can't say for certain, the odds are highly unlikely due to his career and social era.

[Skeba]

The quote obviously was not well thought, no matter which way you look at it.

Let's assume that he meant Bush. Okay... Well, the doing well in school doesn't really apply since Bush did better in school than Kerry. He might have meant that Bush didn't study the circumstanses enough before going to Iraq, but that's a bit streching it, and doesn't really make a good analogy either. Plus I'm fairly sure that if it was on the spot comment, and not from a speech, he wouldn't have that quick. He might be smart, but he's not a comedian. So that's not good and puts him in a bad place.

Now let's say he _did_ mean the troops. Well. This would be equally stupid as the first option, as he was once in the troops himself. He does know how the system works, and he'd be calling himself an idiot for enlisting. And if he's thinking about the party he's in at _all_, he'd know how hurtfull commenting the troops in a negative way would be. I don't think there's a politician in the US who'd say that he hopes that US troops get killed. (I'm sure that some extremists, as horrible as it sounds, actually think this in order to push their political agenda and to make the point clear that it was a mistake to go in.. But I'm 100% sure that nobody would say it out loud.)

So it is pretty clear that he misspoke. It was a dumb comment for him to make.? But to say that Kerry thinks that US troops are stupid, or that none of them went to school, I think, is somewhat inaccurate to say the least. He knows better. Neither of the people in the last election were idiots. But they're easily portrayed as ones (often by idiots) because they're out there so much. They're in the public spotlight and some fuckups are bound to happen. Now the media can always take words out of context (I'd like to see the whole speech in which Kerry made the statement) and turn it anyway it wishes.

This is why I absolutely fucking hate US politics at the moment. These ideas that have actually nothing to do with the actual plans of the candidates are shoved up everyones ass with a shovel because the media and the representatives of both parties think that people are so stupid that they don't want to know about the real agendas, the real viewpoints of the candidates. And judging by these topics that keep popping up (forward and against Bush) the people are happy with the situation and actually make decicions based on these things. They keep talking about a few misplaced words by either party and keep arguing about this instead of asking the real questions. And no, I'm not talking about either party's candidates war record, or where he was at what time, whose grades were a bit better than the other's. I'm talking about the actual ideas that a particular candidate has on solving actual issues like global warming, enivronmental situation, the political situation in the world.... But at the moment it's just shit that gets thrown around and nothing gets solved. The one who throws the most shit (and is better at aiming.. you can't forget aiming) wins and gets to do things their way for the next who-gives-a-shit-how-many years.

Wow..., I don't remember ever posting anything in bold before.

[Guns N RockMusic]

The quote obviously was not well thought, no matter which way you look at it.

Let's assume that he meant Bush. Okay... Well, the doing well in school doesn't really apply since Bush did better in school than Kerry. He might have meant that Bush didn't study the circumstanses enough before going to Iraq, but that's a bit streching it, and doesn't really make a good analogy either. Plus I'm fairly sure that if it was on the spot comment, and not from a speech, he wouldn't have that quick. He might be smart, but he's not a comedian. So that's not good and puts him in a bad place.

Now let's say he _did_ mean the troops. Well. This would be equally stupid as the first option, as he was once in the troops himself. He does know how the system works, and he'd be calling himself an idiot for enlisting. And if he's thinking about the party he's in at _all_, he'd know how hurtfull commenting the troops in a negative way would be. I don't think there's a politician in the US who'd say that he hopes that US troops get killed. (I'm sure that some extremists, as horrible as it sounds, actually think this in order to push their political agenda and to make the point clear that it was a mistake to go in.. But I'm 100% sure that nobody would say it out loud.)

So it is pretty clear that he misspoke. It was a dumb comment for him to make.? But to say that Kerry thinks that US troops are stupid, or that none of them went to school, I think, is somewhat inaccurate to say the least. He knows better. Neither of the people in the last election were idiots. But they're easily portrayed as ones (often by idiots) because they're out there so much. They're in the public spotlight and some fuckups are bound to happen. Now the media can always take words out of context (I'd like to see the whole speech in which Kerry made the statement) and turn it anyway it wishes.

This is why I absolutely fucking hate US politics at the moment. These ideas that have actually nothing to do with the actual plans of the candidates are shoved up everyones ass with a shovel because the media and the representatives of both parties think that people are so stupid that they don't want to know about the real agendas, the real viewpoints of the candidates. And judging by these topics that keep popping up (forward and against Bush) the people are happy with the situation and actually make decicions based on these things. They keep talking about a few misplaced words by either party and keep arguing about this instead of asking the real questions. And no, I'm not talking about either party's candidates war record, or where he was at what time, whose grades were a bit better than the other's. I'm talking about the actual ideas that a particular candidate has on solving actual issues like global warming, enivronmental situation, the political situation in the world.... But at the moment it's just shit that gets thrown around and nothing gets solved. The one who throws the most shit (and is better at aiming.. you can't forget aiming) wins and gets to do things their way for the next who-gives-a-shit-how-many years.

Wow..., I don't remember ever posting anything in bold before.

Excellent post, I couldn't agree more.

[The Dog]

The quote obviously was not well thought, no matter which way you look at it.

Let's assume that he meant Bush. Okay... Well, the doing well in school doesn't really apply since Bush did better in school than Kerry. He might have meant that Bush didn't study the circumstanses enough before going to Iraq, but that's a bit streching it, and doesn't really make a good analogy either. Plus I'm fairly sure that if it was on the spot comment, and not from a speech, he wouldn't have that quick. He might be smart, but he's not a comedian. So that's not good and puts him in a bad place.

Now let's say he _did_ mean the troops. Well. This would be equally stupid as the first option, as he was once in the troops himself. He does know how the system works, and he'd be calling himself an idiot for enlisting. And if he's thinking about the party he's in at _all_, he'd know how hurtfull commenting the troops in a negative way would be. I don't think there's a politician in the US who'd say that he hopes that US troops get killed. (I'm sure that some extremists, as horrible as it sounds, actually think this in order to push their political agenda and to make the point clear that it was a mistake to go in.. But I'm 100% sure that nobody would say it out loud.)

So it is pretty clear that he misspoke. It was a dumb comment for him to make.  But to say that Kerry thinks that US troops are stupid, or that none of them went to school, I think, is somewhat inaccurate to say the least. He knows better. Neither of the people in the last election were idiots. But they're easily portrayed as ones (often by idiots) because they're out there so much. They're in the public spotlight and some fuckups are bound to happen. Now the media can always take words out of context (I'd like to see the whole speech in which Kerry made the statement) and turn it anyway it wishes.

This is why I absolutely fucking hate US politics at the moment. These ideas that have actually nothing to do with the actual plans of the candidates are shoved up everyones ass with a shovel because the media and the representatives of both parties think that people are so stupid that they don't want to know about the real agendas, the real viewpoints of the candidates. And judging by these topics that keep popping up (forward and against Bush) the people are happy with the situation and actually make decicions based on these things. They keep talking about a few misplaced words by either party and keep arguing about this instead of asking the real questions. And no, I'm not talking about either party's candidates war record, or where he was at what time, whose grades were a bit better than the other's. I'm talking about the actual ideas that a particular candidate has on solving actual issues like global warming, enivronmental situation, the political situation in the world.... But at the moment it's just shit that gets thrown around and nothing gets solved. The one who throws the most shit (and is better at aiming.. you can't forget aiming) wins and gets to do things their way for the next who-gives-a-shit-how-many years.

Wow..., I don't remember ever posting anything in bold before.

Excellent post, I couldn't agree more.

Nor could I.  You hit the nail on the head Skeba.  It is a shame that the American media sensationalizes stories like this intsead of focusing on the real problems in the country/world.

Flagg, are you agreeing with what Skeba wrote in bold or his entire post (that Kerry misspoke and its inaccurate to think that Kerry was saying the troops are stupid and didn't go to school)? 

[Guns N RockMusic]

I agree with the part in bold and the part above it where either way you interpret his comments, Kerry's an idiot.  His comments were dumb and will definitely have an impact on the DNC next week.  How much of an impact, I don't know.  I'm all about knocking off the bullshit double speak and answering the issues at hand.  That's why I voted for Bill Pierce for Governor of Ohio (not the Democrat or Republican) and left the Senate blank.  None of our politicians want to take a stand on something, and when they do the issue is so moronic that it doesn't even deserve real debate.  I'm a libertarian, so I left alot of choices blank, but all in all be told, I voted for 1 Libertarian, 2 Democrats and 4 Republicans. Until people break away from the two party system and start chosing people that take a soild stance, things are only going to get worse in the US.

[The Dog]

I agree with the part in bold and the part above it where either way you interpret his comments, Kerry's an idiot.  His comments were dumb and will definitely have an impact on the DNC next week.  How much of an impact, I don't know.  I'm all about knocking off the bullshit double speak and answering the issues at hand.  That's why I voted for Bill Pierce for Governor of Ohio (not the Democrat or Republican) and left the Senate blank.  None of our politicians want to take a stand on something, and when they do the issue is so moronic that it doesn't even deserve real debate.  I'm a libertarian, so I left alot of choices blank, but all in all be told, I voted for 1 Libertarian, 2 Democrats and 4 Republicans. Until people break away from the two party system and start chosing people that take a soild stance, things are only going to get worse in the US.

Now we are getting somewhere.....I don't like the two party system either.  While I lean more democrat then republican (in case you couldn't tell, hehe) there are A LOT of dems I don't like and plenty of Reps that I do.

No arguing his comment was dumb to say.  Whether or not it effects the midterms - I'm gonna say prob not that much at all.  Maybe if Kerry was president or if he was running, but I think a lot of people just see him as the guy who lost in 2004 and nothing more.  I'm sure the DNC is telling him to STFU though. 

I will say though, to Skeba's point - its pretty obvious Kerry just fucked up and the media is blowing it out of proportion (Howard Deans YEEE HAWW comes to mind as well as an example).  But this is a non issue in terms of the REAL issues facing the country today.  Just as Jim Webb's novels were the top news for the day - this kind of nonsense news is pathetic.  With a week to go it'd be nice to hear the Reps talk about what all the polls say people are concerned about: Iraq, gas prices, War on Terror, homeland security, immigration etc....   Not some dumb comments, not some guys racy passages in his books. 

I'm not saying the Dems are 100% innocent of not making mountains out of mole hills, but when it comes to making non-issues issues its pretty clear who the offenders of this have been the past two weeks.  not trying to start a dem/rep debate, just pointing out that the real issues aren't being discussed unfortunately.

[pilferk]

Kerry said something stupid, deserves to be taken to task for it to some extent (not to the extent the Repub propaganda machine is taking it), and should apologize, formally, for mis-stating what he originally and actually meant.? Then, on top of that, he should apologize for trying to be funny because he's bad at it (IMHO...and yes, I'm kidding about apologizing for it...but he really isn't funny).

That being said, the Republicans have said many, many, many stupid things before, too.? And our President is the KING of the "mis-spoken word" and having what he says be completely at the polar opposite of what he means...and some of those things have been offensive, but they were so obviously mis-statments he's gotten a pass.

As for Bush being stupid..he's not.? He's certainly intelligent.? He's just not particularly articulate, and that's why he gets accused of being stupid.?

[The Dog]

Looks like Kerry was reading the message board 

Kerry Apologizes:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061101/ts_nm/usa_elections_kerry_dc

This is what he should have done in the first place.  Would have made this a much smaller deal then it was (not that it should have been a big one to begin with, but I digress).  I did like his response thoguh, very strong words and he was dead on about a lot of things, mainly how we're not talkingabout whats really important.  This will be the last we hear from him for at least a week though.

Here is what Kerry claims he meant to say:

Kerry's office said the senator had misread his prepared remarks. They said he had intended to say, "Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush."

[Bill 213]

Looks like Kerry was reading the message board?

Kerry Apologizes:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061101/ts_nm/usa_elections_kerry_dc

This is what he should have done in the first place.? Would have made this a much smaller deal then it was (not that it should have been a big one to begin with, but I digress).? I did like his response thoguh, very strong words and he was dead on about a lot of things, mainly how we're not talkingabout whats really important.? This will be the last we hear from him for at least a week though.

Here is what Kerry claims he meant to say:

Kerry's office said the senator had misread his prepared remarks. They said he had intended to say, "Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush."

I still think our fellow Republicans here are going to be hellbent on proving Kerry is a troop hater.  I mean as of right now it's the only thing they have going for them.  At this point I think it's impossible for the Republicans to actually try to debate real issues.  Look at their track record going into this election.  They can't magically turn around their glorious fuckups in 2 weeks to make the past 4 years go away. 

[The Dog]

Looks like Kerry was reading the message board 

Kerry Apologizes:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061101/ts_nm/usa_elections_kerry_dc

This is what he should have done in the first place.  Would have made this a much smaller deal then it was (not that it should have been a big one to begin with, but I digress).  I did like his response thoguh, very strong words and he was dead on about a lot of things, mainly how we're not talkingabout whats really important.  This will be the last we hear from him for at least a week though.

Here is what Kerry claims he meant to say:

Kerry's office said the senator had misread his prepared remarks. They said he had intended to say, "Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush."

I still think our fellow Republicans here are going to be hellbent on proving Kerry is a troop hater.  I mean as of right now it's the only thing they have going for them.  At this point I think it's impossible for the Republicans to actually try to debate real issues.  Look at their track record going into this election.  They can't magically turn around their glorious fuckups in 2 weeks to make the past 4 years go away. 

Well, Drew said before he can't really say what Kerry meant b/c hes not in his head, and Flagg agreed with Skeba's post that Kerry just misspoke and to say Kerry was saying the troops are dumb and uneducated is inaccurate to say the least.   So I think we can all agree that this really got blown out of proportion and became an issue when it shouldn't have.  Especially in light of REAL issues going on in the world...

[The Dog]

Heres some comments from someone at the National Review Online (conservative/neoconservative magazine)

"John Kerry is awful, and anything we can do further to degrade his political prospects is worth doing. But really, I saw a clip of him making the much-deplored remark, and it was obvious that the dimwit in Iraq that he referred to was George W. Bush, not the American soldier. It was a dumb joke badly delivered, but his meaning was plain.  My pleasure in watching JK squirm is just as great as any other conservative's, but something is owed to honesty.  There's a lot of fake outrage going round here," - John Derbyshire, NRO.

I don't know why we can't all agree with that...

[Booker Floyd]

Pat Buchanan also just said he knows Kerry wasnt talking about the troops.  He knows this from the context (it came during a series of jabs at Bush) and the delivery (he smirked at the end of the line). 

This is all numbingly stupid.  Kerry explained his intentions behind the comment and the only ones that believe otherwise and are pressing the issue are Republicans who know theyre being dishonest but are politically desperate and people who already dislike Kerry and are willfully ignoring logic.  Thats all this issue is, and the media proves two things: 1) its a slow news day 2) theyre awful.

[pilferk]

And here's the fact of the matter when it comes to John Kerry, the democratic party, and their hopes for good results (from their standpoint) on Tuesday:

John Kerry leads nothing in the party. ?He's not a high ranking dem, he doesn't set policy, he has no involvement, really, with party strategy or anything meaningful at all. ?He's a nice face they could trot out during the elections to drum up votes and voter recognition. ?With this, they can stuff him in a closet somewhere, essentially all the candidates can disassociate themselves from him, and really...nothing is lost.

It's a good newsmaker for the Repubs, I suppose, but hardly hard hitting enough to staunch the other news stories out there. ?Heck, it hasn't even trumped or quieted the Fox/Limbaugh story all that much. ?I doubt, given Kerry's response today, that there will be much left of the story by election day, and I doubt it will factor much.

[The Dog]

As dumb as this story is...I thought this was pretty hysterical

[Booker Floyd]

As dumb as this story is...I thought this was pretty hysterical

Theres definitely an irony in troops that dont recognize they werent being called stupid.

[D]

I got one question


How the hell did we manage to slip political topics back in?

All I can say is...... Its about time.

Makes the board lively.

[SLCPUNK]

I think it is wrong to even suggest a comment like this in a time of war!

I'm curious, maybe you could show us when we actually declared war?

[Bill 213]

I got one question


How the hell did we manage to slip political topics back in?

All I can say is...... Its about time.

Makes the board lively.

For the most part I think we've been really well behaved in the threads lately.  Sure we bicker heavily, but it hasn't resulted in any serious insults, enough to cause the topic to get thrown totally out of whack.  Look at us all growing up and being big boys (sorry Mr. Foley)! 

[GeorgeSteele]

I got one question


How the hell did we manage to slip political topics back in?

All I can say is...... Its about time.

Makes the board lively.

For the most part I think we've been really well behaved in the threads lately.? Sure we bicker heavily, but it hasn't resulted in any serious insults, enough to cause the topic to get thrown totally out of whack.? Look at us all growing up and being big boys (sorry Mr. Foley)!?

If James Carville and Mary Matlin can be married to each other, it would be pretty pathetic if we couldn't all coexist on a message board for god's sake. 

Anyway, regarding Frankenstein, this is probably the best thing that could have happened to the Democratic Party, because now there's no chance he'll get the nomination in '08.  Praise God.