Chinese Democracy: Anti piracy measures

[Bandita]

Yes, the day I open GN'R my first thought will be to rush to my computer, upload a bunch of "jacked" files to a sharing program, and fuck up all those communist BASTARDS who try to download the album! Take that you 15-year-old FASCIST! Hi-yah!

 

 

$50 for a CD is insane so I can almost sympathize with the downloading. ?But if you have access to the internet you should be able to order a copy from another country. ?I can't see the shipping being that much. ?

I wouldn't go as far as to hold 50 messed up files on my computer.? That is not our job.

[nonlinear]

this is a completely lame idea.

first of all, why do you want to help support these music industry dinosaurs when there are plenty of great up-and-coming musicians who HAVE figured out how to make money in this new market (e.g. www.rhymesayers.com)??

second, anyone who is going to download the entire album is gonna go to IRC or torrent where the cd will be released by ripping groups who have consistent quality, etc.  Most people don't waste their time on p2p networks (and those people who do the p2p thing are likely to be casual fans who aren't going to buy the cd anyhow, they just want a couple of songs heard off of the radio).

Really, what this industry is learning is that $ is made through touring and merchandise, not record sales.

download on, montherfuckers

[Bandita]

second, anyone who is going to download the entire album is gonna go to IRC or torrent where the cd will be released by ripping groups who have consistent quality, etc.? Most peopled don't waste their time on p2p networks (and those people who do the p2p thing are likely to becasual fans who aresn't going to buy the cd anyhow, they just want a couple of songs heard off of the internet).

True, when they go on torrent and newsgroups they are put up properly with artwork.  If I was going to download an entire album this is where I would start.  Not P2P simply because of the virus issues, etc.

But I still intend to buy a hard copy. 

[oneway23]

Perhaps if artists received more than 2-10% per record sold (I believe Metallica and Ani Difranco, because of her distribution, are on the high end at 12% and 16%, respectively) then this dead horse argument would still be vital.  The most effective way you can truly choose to support those artists whom you feel are most deserving is to go see a show, buy a t-shirt.

[Bandita]

Perhaps if artists received more than 2-10% per record sold (I believe Metallica and Ani Difranco, because of her distribution, are on the high end at 12% and 16%, respectively) then this dead horse argument would still be vital.? The most effective way you can truly choose to support those artists whom you feel are most deserving is to go see a show, buy a t-shirt.

Yes, but while they may receive the bulk of their money from shows and merchandise, record sales and chart stats are still important to an artist.  So while you might not be giving money to the actual band you are still supporting their popularity by actually buying the album-

If a bands album does well they will want to do shows, if everyone is downloading the music from P2P and other ways that cannot be tracked well then how is an artist to get statistics on whether they did well?

I know it's a business but in reality it is all tied in.  GNR isn't doing that great with ticket sales right now probably partially due to the fact that there is no album to support.  If they had one that was topping the charts the venues would be selling out.

[Spiochu]

remember the fact that in some countries prices of foreign cds are just too big... not everywhere is so great...

cmon.
cds are all over the world in the range 10-15$
everyone who can afford internet can afford to buy a cd.

So you don't realy know what is it like to live in some places in middle east europe. For example cd from USA cost us around 20/25 $. When somebody has 3 $ pay hour work - he's a person with 10 years work experience and college behind him... so... you know nothing

[DaNutz]

Thanks liesin and Lucky, but looks like the majority agrees its impossible to have any significant impact.

For those of you that think its your right to d/l music, just because it's become so acceptable in this society,
you cant be more wrong....Any writer, artist etc, should be able to sell their "product" at whatever
price they choose and whether you can sample their product for free should be up to them...If you think
it costs too much, then don't buy it and certainly dont use price as an excuse to steal it.

I used to download all kinds of games...But then again I was 13-17 yrs old...Im sure when some of
you little punks grow up, and perhaps write your own software, make a movie, or sell music on a professional
level, you may see the light....

[oneway23]

Bandita, the fact that GNR ticket sales are not doing well is based ENTIRELY upon the fact that there is no record.  That has nothing at all to do with chart position, and everything to do with the fact that this is now the 3rd time that the band is beginning a tour with no product out, and the idea of seeing what is largely perceived as yet another nostalgia tour(at least at the moment) may be growing thin on the fans.
Judas Priest can release a record that barely charts, yet can still count on selling out arenas all over the world.  Regardless of how an album does, if a promoter feels that an act is worth the investment and capable of filling arenas, there will be interest.

From a fan's point of view, the album doesn't have to be a huge seller, there simply needs to be an indication that the band is actively moving forward and releasing new material, thus, the show will be a bit different from the last time they were in town, and there is a guarantee that at least a handful of new material will be presented.

[kyrie]

I have never and will never buy a "CD" (these are not actually CDs, CDs with damaged quality for "anti-piracy" are not allowed to use the Compact Disc logo as they don't meet the standard since they're damaged goods) using intentional errors to stop copying, nor will I buy ANY cd with copy prevention software. Take a look at Sony's rootkit. That's just one example as to why NO ONE should support this shit. If Chinese Democracy has any such crap on it I'll download it - because NO copy prevention system works and it WILL get online no matter what - and I'll mail Axl 10 or 15$.

I do NOT want to see this album infested with that kind of garbage. There's a couple good albums I'd like that I don't have because of this. And I rarely download. But I don't want shit that won't work in my car/won't work in my old player/won't work in my portable player/can't be ripped to MP3/may fuck up my PC (and probably will fuck you over it you use a MAC)/may contain backdoors, rootkits or trojans. The record labels can go fuck themselves. Until "piracy" became widespread CDs here were 20$+. Now suddenly they're 10$ and the labels are doing just fine (although they cry like it's the end of the world but fuck them, they got greedy, and I'm not supporting hypocrites who sue little girls while practicing illegal price controls anyway).

"Any writer, artist etc, should be able to sell their "product" at whatever
price they choose"

the artist do not choose the price, the labels do. The labels in the past few years have been taken the court MULTIPLE times for illegal pricing practices under anti-trust laws. Universal and others have paid MILLIONS of dollars in settlements so that they don't need to admit guilt.

Downloading is the best form of promotion a band can get.

Oh, and I've written my own software and have seen it pirated (I don't even bother having an annoying serial number, it's easier not to piss customers off with "protection"), and I really don't give a shit. Because there's two types of people - those who download it and will maybe buy it, and those who would not have paid in the first place.

[russtcb]

I don't care

If i can get something for nothing, i will

Thats a shitty attitude.

[Mustapha]

I have never and will never buy a "CD" (these are not actually CDs, CDs with damaged quality for "anti-piracy" are not allowed to use the Compact Disc logo as they don't meet the standard since they're damaged goods) using intentional errors to stop copying, nor will I buy ANY cd with copy prevention software. Take a look at Sony's rootkit. That's just one example as to why NO ONE should support this shit. If Chinese Democracy has any such crap on it I'll download it - because NO copy prevention system works and it WILL get online no matter what - and I'll mail Axl 10 or 15$.

I do NOT want to see this album infested with that kind of garbage. There's a couple good albums I'd like that I don't have because of this. And I rarely download. But I don't want shit that won't work in my car/won't work in my old player/won't work in my portable player/can't be ripped to MP3/may fuck up my PC (and probably will fuck you over it you use a MAC)/may contain backdoors, rootkits or trojans. The record labels can go fuck themselves. Until "piracy" became widespread CDs here were 20$+. Now suddenly they're 10$ and the labels are doing just fine (although they cry like it's the end of the world but fuck them, they got greedy, and I'm not supporting hypocrites who sue little girls while practicing illegal price controls anyway).

"Any writer, artist etc, should be able to sell their "product" at whatever
price they choose"

the artist do not choose the price, the labels do. The labels in the past few years have been taken the court MULTIPLE times for illegal pricing practices under anti-trust laws. Universal and others have paid MILLIONS of dollars in settlements so that they don't need to admit guilt.

Downloading is the best form of promotion a band can get.

Oh, and I've written my own software and have seen it pirated (I don't even bother having an annoying serial number, it's easier not to piss customers off with "protection"), and I really don't give a shit. Because there's two types of people - those who download it and will maybe buy it, and those who would not have paid in the first place.

Outsanding post. AMEN to that.
Fuck the labels, long live to music. Oh and btw, you can be sure that if people download the album and they like it, they will eventually buy it the next time they stop by a record store.

[DaNutz]

Because there's two types of people - those who download it and will maybe buy it, and those who would not have paid in the first place.

You forgot the 3rd type: Those who just go out and buy it....(those who download it and will MAYBE buy it...what a bunch of shit that is.)

Also its irrelevant that the label sets the price, because the label owns the rights to the album..Not the downloaders.

Whether downloading is the best way to promote something, may or may not be true...It still does not give people the
right to download if the artist/label do not want that, just because some guy on the internet thinks he has the right
to demo it because some big corporation is charging to much.

Those settlements were based on labels telling retailers there was a minimum that they HAD to sell the CD for: thus
price fixing....Other than that they were free as all hell to sell the CD to the retailer for whatever price they wanted.

Its no different than an author writing a book, having the publisher charge $50, somebody scanning it, and letting others download it
illegally..They have every RIGHT to charge whatever the fuck they want...You have no right to download it if they dont want you to,
just because they can't stop you.

[Charity Case]

You guys need to stop referring to Chinese Democracy as the most anticipated album of all time.  It's not.  The UYI albums had much more anticipation about them than Chinese Democracy does.  The countdown to the release of those albums was HUGE.  That will not be the case here guys.  CD may be the lbum you anticipate the most, but certainly not by the masses.

[gandra]

well i live in fuckin east europe(serbia) and new gnr album will be in our stores more than 15 days after rest of europe,and please tell me how can i wait these 15 days to listen chinese democracy(album which i wait since 1991).
I will download it from internet,and after 15 days i will buy 5 copies(one for home,one for car,one for keeping,and 2 for my friends).

Sorry Axl but i have to do it

[DaNutz]

well i live in fuckin east europe(serbia) and new gnr album will be in our stores more than 15 days after rest of europe,and please tell me how can i wait these 15 days to listen chinese democracy(album which i wait since 1991).
I will download it from internet,and after 15 days i will buy 5 copies(one for home,one for car,one for keeping,and 2 for my friends).

Sorry Axl but i have to do it

I personally see no problem with that...If you know you'll buy it 100%, then I guess your not going to hell.

[Chief]

I think one of the best things they could do is include bonuses with the disc purchase such as DVD or videos on a disc or other multimedia content or what not, or documentary footage or interviews..
also perhaps different versions of the album available with bigger booklets perhaps?

Beck is doing something cool with his new album, by letting the fans create the album art work. that is very cool.  i posted that article in the bad obsession section here:
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=35431.0

[gandra]

well i said 15+ days,romania is neigbourh of serbia,and you will be in EU next year,and serbia will be for 3+ years in best case.I think that it is not bad if we will download it,because we will buy new cd.
I'm going to romania in the end of september.

[nonlinear]

I have never and will never buy a "CD" (these are not actually CDs, CDs with damaged quality for "anti-piracy" are not allowed to use the Compact Disc logo as they don't meet the standard since they're damaged goods) using intentional errors to stop copying, nor will I buy ANY cd with copy prevention software. Take a look at Sony's rootkit. That's just one example as to why NO ONE should support this shit. If Chinese Democracy has any such crap on it I'll download it - because NO copy prevention system works and it WILL get online no matter what - and I'll mail Axl 10 or 15$.

I do NOT want to see this album infested with that kind of garbage. There's a couple good albums I'd like that I don't have because of this. And I rarely download. But I don't want shit that won't work in my car/won't work in my old player/won't work in my portable player/can't be ripped to MP3/may fuck up my PC (and probably will fuck you over it you use a MAC)/may contain backdoors, rootkits or trojans. The record labels can go fuck themselves. Until "piracy" became widespread CDs here were 20$+. Now suddenly they're 10$ and the labels are doing just fine (although they cry like it's the end of the world but fuck them, they got greedy, and I'm not supporting hypocrites who sue little girls while practicing illegal price controls anyway).

"Any writer, artist etc, should be able to sell their "product" at whatever
price they choose"

the artist do not choose the price, the labels do. The labels in the past few years have been taken the court MULTIPLE times for illegal pricing practices under anti-trust laws. Universal and others have paid MILLIONS of dollars in settlements so that they don't need to admit guilt.

Downloading is the best form of promotion a band can get.

Oh, and I've written my own software and have seen it pirated (I don't even bother having an annoying serial number, it's easier not to piss customers off with "protection"), and I really don't give a shit. Because there's two types of people - those who download it and will maybe buy it, and those who would not have paid in the first place.

WELL PUT MOTHAFUCKA!!!

[bazgnr]

For me, it's about wanting the finished product in my hands, to be seen, listened to, and read as the artist intended.  The music itself is the most obvious and immediate reward, but for many, the packaging elevates the music itself into a larger concept or art form...take the last Tool album, for example.

As of now, I'm all for hearing new GnR before it's released.  After all, it's been a long damn time without hearing anything, and wanting so badly for the album to come out.

Even if I were to download every song - which I won't if the possibiliity presents itself, as I want to be surprised by new material, heard properly and as intended for the first time - I'd still buy the album.

That being said, I refuse to purchase "copy-protected" CDs.  Between my ipods, computers, and other players, I *always* back up my music and make a copy of an album I really enjoy.  Moreso, I pass good music on to friends not to "steal" music, but to turn them onto something they may not have sought out on their own, music that they may eventually buy themselves.

Anti-piracy is a sound concept, but so very, very dangerous to execute without turning people further away from the music.  I'm being an indealist, I know, but let the music speak for itself - pirated or not - and if it's good enough, if it strikes a chord with people like good music should, then sales will follow, no matter what form they may take.

[Grouse]

cmon.
cds are all over the world in the range 10-15$
everyone who can afford internet can afford to buy a cd.

oh god I wish they were that price, they are wayyyyyyy to expensive over here,. I only buy cd's of the bands I really want to support....