Based on what we have heard so far...

[duga]

Based on what we have heard so far...Chinese Democracy will kick some serious arses.

We know there are some really good songs. The producer (Axl and who knows) will be the key. A good record (Contraband) or a classic (UYI 1/2)?

[Bono]

Well you also can't refuse to believe that any of the new songs will be better than the old stuff... It IS possible, however unlikely.? Personally, I rank some of the new stuff ahead of some of the weaker old stuff, but of course we haven't even heard the final product.

definately not. I know some of these news songs will likely blow some of the odl songs outta the water. Like you said though it'll likely be the weaker old material. Songs like Dust n' Bones, Bad obsession, So Fine, Pretty Tied Up etc. Those are all decent songs but already I feel songs like Madagascar, Better and even TWAT have loads more potential than those osnsg ever could. I'm not under the illusion that tis album can't be gear. I hope it is and I hope the studio version of these songs we've heard so far do change my mind.

Around the middle of your post I started to think that the true test would be people's impression of the album down the road a few years.? You mentioned that a few lines after that.? I think that just like Episode 1, the hype and love of classics will cloud people's judgment of the new songs.... but when the dust settles we will see how good the album really is.? I personally think it will be looked upon highly compared to current music and possibly stand up to the old material.

FUCKING YES!!! that's the best analogy I have yet to hear. It's at least the best way to describe what I was trying to get at. Phantom Menace was loved by so many people and yet a few years down the road those very same people(myself included) can't stand it. The love for that movie was based on a past love and based on such high anticipation and expectation. You loved them for the fact that they were simply new Star Wars material. You excitement clouded your judgement and it wasn't untill a bit of time had passed where you could really look at it objectively.? Attack of the Clones I don't belive recived such high praise right off the bat from Star wars deprived fans. We had gotten our fix from Phantom Menace and we're able to look at AOTC more clearly.

[requiem156]

Riiight - it was the intro that sold the song, not the vocal melody, chorus, etc.

The vocal and the melody were great on the song, but I will bet you even money that if you took a poll of a hundred random people and asked them what stood out most in the song / what is the most memorable part that more than half would say the guitar. Say what you want about polls but that intro is universally regarded as one of the best ever written.

For you to say that Slash's contributions to the band were more about look and image than his playing on Appetite and the Illusions might be the most outrageous thing ever posted on this board.

The post 2002 era of GNR has made many members of the board forget that it is possible to both look like the epitome of a rockstar and play like one.

And I sure hope your logic of a music video selling a song is not gospel otherwise this incarnation of the band is bound to crash and burn. Here I thought it was what comes out of the instruments that really matters.?

I didn't say that his main contributions to the BAND came from image and presence, I said his contributions to the band's popularity. But you disagree because you either aren't reading my posts corectly, or you think that the 13 million people who bought that album were such discriminating fans of guitar playing that they could tell Slash is a great player. Well, maybe that's true, but if so, I'm surprised that he's the only great guitar player who sold 13 million albums that year. He's good but I wouldn't call him the best guitar player that ever lived - not that that detract from his playing the band when he was in it, but the important thing about that band is that it was a tight unit of guys working together - not that any of them were so virtuosic on their instruments.

[ppbebe]

It is generally accepted that Silkworms is a bad song, regardless if Axl Rose is singing it or not.  Each board member also has a leaked song they prefer more than the others...but of COURSE people are going to like the songs, it's Axl Rose singing it... His voice and lyrics are the reason we're here in the first place.

wait A sec, sir!
altho huge, those are not my primary reason to be here.
Mine is the songs the band makes. The sound its members make together.
It's Guns n roses, the band axl has constructed anew with these guys and leads. and all the characters in it.

One person doesn't make a band. possibly an aggregation of musicians either.

A band is one organism itself, consists of the musicians plus some presence among them...like an aura that defines the band.
It's variable but is always there even when they were physically apart.

A good band is greater than the sum of its parts.

Also there're quite a few who like the silkworms over another song.

on the other things you said, I totally agree.

Sometimes making a conscious effort to keep an "open mind" about music turns you into a critic... and sometimes thinking like a music critic can ruin your enjoyment of good music. 

[GeraldFord]

Axl is God...

"Nuff Said...

[King Sand]

The Phantom Menace??  The Attack of the Clones??  WTF???  Wait!  Hold on... THAT explains why there has been so much bitching lately!!!!  We've been invaded by the Star Wars geeks...

[Bono]

The Phantom Menace??? The Attack of the Clones??? WTF? Wait!? Hold on... THAT explains why there has been so much bitching lately!!!!? We've been invaded by the Star Wars geeks...

Bitching lately?! Where the fuck have you been? there's been bitching on these boards for years. Star Wars has nothing to do with that. Try and comprehend what was being said.

[ppbebe]

I'm moved everyday by songs ppbebe. I don't have to wait 15 years for new Axl Rose tunes to be moved. a lot of songs off the new Snow Patrol album move me, Neil Young's newest album moved me, City and Colour's album is moving. I'm moved by the new tune on The Music's website homepage. Leaked demos of U2's new songs and david usher's new songs sound very moving.

Good! You're an impressionable nature.

I'm not. I'm fussy.

There're many songs that I enjoy but wouldn't call moving.
By moving I mean truly moving and not just pleasant. like mind-blowingly, goosepimply, earthshakingly, or such. For instance the other day I, in an unguarded moment, sobbed while reading a serial in a magazine at rather a busy bookshop, in public! which was bloody embarrassing but I couldn't resist. I usually buy it when published in book form but having seen people's roaring disapproval of the tragic turn of the story from the last few issues, I was too curious /anxious about the fate of the two heroines. I'd draw a parallel between IRS, with both the music and the lyrics, and the panic of a heroine in the story and of probably every reader. 

If I find more than a few poignant tracks/ moments in an album, right away it will be the most excellent album I ever heard, which most absolutely CD will be, as the songs heard so far guarantee.

In my mind, there's no superior or inferior in the emotions/the impressive songs. Never. Unless false.

If you wanna know when the last time I was moved by a  new Gn'R song well it was in 2002 at the VMA's when I first heard Madagascar. Nothing new GnR since than has coem close to moving me in any way shape or forum. be it physically bouncing or emotinal connection. the songs just dont; do it for me. they sound generic and empty in terms of emotion from my perspective.

The last few lines are what I'd describe u2 songs as from my perspective?tight but nothing outrageous?save that recently I found their early works less boring as the edges spacey guitar is more remarkable there but every time the vocal comes in, I'd go like oh shut up. That doesn't mean I hate the singer. Far from that I think hes a fine character.

Each to their own.
Likewise, many will regard cd as higher than afd, some of the old schools won't.
Some will appreciate cd as much as they did afd.. Same may never like either of them.

Regardless I wouldn't go to a u2 board to announce this to the U2 fans. That'd be not only boring but also  ridiculous as it might well make U2 fans dislike GNR fans and even the very band.

I never said anythign about needing common sense to appreciate music. I do think there's a lack of common sense on these boards in terms of the overly high expectations for this album in regards to how the general music buying public will recive it. Alot of you say "everyone I know was blown away by the leaks and demos" well who are you showing these songs too? I really tried to push the new songs on my friends. I e-mailed them to my freinds and played them in the car and at parties and asked for their opinions and not one single person said anything remotely positive about these songs. The best response was for Better when a few people said "it's o.k. I guess".  So nobody I know in the general public gave two shits about the new songs. Too me that says alot. Trust me when I say this I REALLY WANT/WANTED to love these new songs and I'ma s much a fan as the old material as anyone so when I find it extremely hard to dig the new songs to sucha  high level I have to belive that alot of people have simply convinced themselves that these songs are amazing. They wanted it so much that they made it so.  I know this will piss some people off and offend some people but I honestly believe a hell of alot of people on these boards are gonna love the album and the songs no matter what simply because it's Axl. It won't be based on the material itself it will be based on who wrote it.I believe that a massive amount of people would not rate these songs at all if they weren't Gn'R. I also believe that a huge amount of people on these boards don't have the ability to be unbiased when it comes to Axl Rose.  I dont say that to be mean I say it because I think it's true.

Like I said, I wasn't obliged to be a fan of Axl and this band, and still I'm not.
I'm free. I believe everyone here is.

I don't get why you should bother yourself with some fans "overly high expectations" so hard.

If their expectations were to end in disappointment, so what? None of your concern, innit? 
They don't die of the expectations or won't die of the disappointment. no big deal for a fan.

And that why you should force the songs of which even you yourself don't have good opinions
upon your friends and upon yourself?
no offence but sounds like you're pretty obsessed.

sorry about a long and late reply. I felt asleep while typing this.

[ExileOnMassSt]

Thought I'd test this out, so I showed a board full of GNR non-fans some of the best Blues, Maddy, and TWAT performances (demo in the case of TWAT).  Here's their responses:

" Axl's voice is horrible. It sounded like one of the American Idol rejects that make it on tv for the laughs.  Guitar solos were boooring.  These songs sounded like crappy CCM songs from some mid to late nineties "Christian rock band" that was still holding on to the 80's while trying to be "relevant" to a new generation.  I was never a fan of GnR, but I find this sad. They were the one band that fit into the whole "hair band" title whose music was respectable. Their past music held up better with time than most of their peers. "

"LOL @ Axl.  Holy mother that was awful. I didn't mind GnR back in the day - but WOW.  I felt this involuntary belly laugh every time he started screaching for his old high range of voice. Sorry, this is pretty pathetic - in the sad way.  Even the prerecorded There Was a Time song was severely lacking."

"I listened to the first two but stopped after I couldn't stand the singer's voice any longer. Everything besides that seemed good...but golly gee whiz, he didn't sound good."

[p-man]

I just hope that Catcher in the Rye makes it onto this album, and doesn't get pushed back to the second or third release.  It's SUCH a great song!!!!!

[Skinflick]

Thought I'd test this out, so I showed a board full of GNR non-fans some of the best Blues, Maddy, and TWAT performances (demo in the case of TWAT).? Here's their responses:

" Axl's voice is horrible. It sounded like one of the American Idol rejects that make it on tv for the laughs.? Guitar solos were boooring.? These songs sounded like crappy CCM songs from some mid to late nineties "Christian rock band" that was still holding on to the 80's while trying to be "relevant" to a new generation.? I was never a fan of GnR, but I find this sad. They were the one band that fit into the whole "hair band" title whose music was respectable. Their past music held up better with time than most of their peers. "

"LOL @ Axl.? Holy mother that was awful. I didn't mind GnR back in the day - but WOW.? I felt this involuntary belly laugh every time he started screaching for his old high range of voice. Sorry, this is pretty pathetic - in the sad way.? Even the prerecorded There Was a Time song was severely lacking."

"I listened to the first two but stopped after I couldn't stand the singer's voice any longer. Everything besides that seemed good...but golly gee whiz, he didn't sound good."

You so need to get laid buddy.....and I ain't talkin' about your blowup dolls....

[Skinflick]

I just hope that Catcher in the Rye makes it onto this album, and doesn't get pushed back to the second or third release.? It's SUCH a great song!!!!!

That is a great song.

[ppbebe]

Thought I'd test this out, so I showed a board full of GNR non-fans some of the best Blues, Maddy, and TWAT performances (demo in the case of TWAT).  Here's their responses:

" Axl's voice is horrible. It sounded like one of the American Idol rejects that make it on tv for the laughs.  Guitar solos were boooring.  These songs sounded like crappy CCM songs from some mid to late nineties "Christian rock band" that was still holding on to the 80's while trying to be "relevant" to a new generation.  I was never a fan of GnR, but I find this sad. They were the one band that fit into the whole "hair band" title whose music was respectable. Their past music held up better with time than most of their peers. "

"LOL @ Axl.  Holy mother that was awful. I didn't mind GnR back in the day - but WOW.  I felt this involuntary belly laugh every time he started screaching for his old high range of voice. Sorry, this is pretty pathetic - in the sad way.  Even the prerecorded There Was a Time song was severely lacking."

"I listened to the first two but stopped after I couldn't stand the singer's voice any longer. Everything besides that seemed good...but golly gee whiz, he didn't sound good."

and are they bon jovi fans? or motley?  If not, why didn't you play IRS and better for them?

[russtcb]

Thought I'd test this out, so I showed a board full of GNR non-fans some of the best Blues, Maddy, and TWAT performances (demo in the case of TWAT).  Here's their responses:

" Axl's voice is horrible. It sounded like one of the American Idol rejects that make it on tv for the laughs.  Guitar solos were boooring.  These songs sounded like crappy CCM songs from some mid to late nineties "Christian rock band" that was still holding on to the 80's while trying to be "relevant" to a new generation.  I was never a fan of GnR, but I find this sad. They were the one band that fit into the whole "hair band" title whose music was respectable. Their past music held up better with time than most of their peers. "

"LOL @ Axl.  Holy mother that was awful. I didn't mind GnR back in the day - but WOW.  I felt this involuntary belly laugh every time he started screaching for his old high range of voice. Sorry, this is pretty pathetic - in the sad way.  Even the prerecorded There Was a Time song was severely lacking."

"I listened to the first two but stopped after I couldn't stand the singer's voice any longer. Everything besides that seemed good...but golly gee whiz, he didn't sound good."

and are they bon jovi fans? or motley?  If not, why didn't you play IRS and better for them?

Yeah really. I must say all of the songs I've played for people have gotten a great response. My little brother didn't like Madagascar the first time he heard it but it grew on him.

[Bono]

Good! You're an impressionable nature.

I'm not. I'm fussy.

Well that's condescending of you. Whatever .

There're many songs that I enjoy but wouldn't call moving.
By moving I mean truly moving and not just pleasant. like mind-blowingly, goosepimply, earthshakingly, or such. For instance the other day I, in an unguarded moment, sobbed while reading a serial in a magazine at rather a busy bookshop, in public! which was bloody embarrassing but I couldn't resist. I usually buy it when published in book form but having seen people's roaring disapproval of the tragic turn of the story from the last few issues, I was too curious /anxious about the fate of the two heroines. I'd draw a parallel between IRS, with both the music and the lyrics, and the panic of a heroine in the story and of probably every reader.?

If I find more than a few poignant tracks/ moments in an album, right away it will be the most excellent album I ever heard, which most absolutely CD will be, as the songs heard so far guarantee.

In my mind, there's no superior or inferior in the emotions/the impressive songs. Never. Unless false.

I agree. Though this kind of movement " like mind-blowingly, goosepimply, earthshakingly is so far and few between. I'm moved by muisc everyday but admitedly it's rare to be moved ot that extent.  If you get that form IRS than I guess I could simply very well say "You're an impressionable nature.. Maybe now the condescending tone is clear for ya.

The last few lines are what I'd describe u2 songs as from my perspective?tight but nothing outrageous?save that recently I found their early works less boring as the edges spacey guitar is more remarkable there but every time the vocal comes in, I'd go like oh shut up. That doesn't mean I hate the singer. Far from that I think hes a fine character.

Each to their own.
Likewise, many will regard cd as higher than afd, some of the old schools won't.
Some will appreciate cd as much as they did afd.. Same may never like either of them.

Regardless I wouldn't go to a u2 board to announce this to the U2 fans. That'd be not only boring but also? ridiculous as it might well make U2 fans dislike GNR fans and even the very band.

I never said anythign about needing common sense to appreciate music. I do think there's a lack of common sense on these boards in terms of the overly high expectations for this album in regards to how the general music buying public will recive it. Alot of you say "everyone I know was blown away by the leaks and demos" well who are you showing these songs too? I really tried to push the new songs on my friends. I e-mailed them to my freinds and played them in the car and at parties and asked for their opinions and not one single person said anything remotely positive about these songs. The best response was for Better when a few people said "it's o.k. I guess".? So nobody I know in the general public gave two shits about the new songs. Too me that says alot. Trust me when I say this I REALLY WANT/WANTED to love these new songs and I'ma s much a fan as the old material as anyone so when I find it extremely hard to dig the new songs to sucha? high level I have to belive that alot of people have simply convinced themselves that these songs are amazing. They wanted it so much that they made it so.? I know this will piss some people off and offend some people but I honestly believe a hell of alot of people on these boards are gonna love the album and the songs no matter what simply because it's Axl. It won't be based on the material itself it will be based on who wrote it.I believe that a massive amount of people would not rate these songs at all if they weren't Gn'R. I also believe that a huge amount of people on these boards don't have the ability to be unbiased when it comes to Axl Rose.? I dont say that to be mean I say it because I think it's true.

Well how about you go to a U2 forum then and see how people are there. Those forums are the same as these forums in the sense that some people are incapable of being unbiased. Bono is God. The Edge is the greatest guitar player who ever lived and so on. Thye can do no wrong in the eyes of some.Though when the fans who do show true unbiased opinions there, their opinions are useually taken seriously and never labelled a hater the way they are on Gn'R forums. See to voice an opinion that doesn't glorify Axl or the new band here is heresy. It doesn't make Gn'R fans more loyal it only makes them more blind. After 16 years of being a  diehard Gn'R fan(one time my favorite band, now my second fav and millions of miles in front of my third fav) and 4 years on the forums I would have to say that what I posted  just above was a legit opinion.  And if fans are small minded enough to read somthing like that and then decide not to like a band based on it, then that shows a massive lack of intelligence and perspective as well as free thinking.

Like I said, I wasn't obliged to be a fan of Axl and this band, and still I'm not.
I'm free. I believe everyone here is.

I don't get why you should bother yourself with some fans "overly high expectations" so hard.

If their expectations were to end in disappointment, so what? None of your concern, innit??
They don't die of the expectations or won't die of the disappointment. no big deal for a fan.

And that why you should force the songs of which even you yourself don't have good opinions
upon your friends and upon yourself?
no offence but sounds like you're pretty obsessed.

sorry about a long and late reply. I felt asleep while typing this.

Wow. you're unreal. Aren't we all!? We've been waiting for this thing forever and so a few leaks finally come out and even though I'm not blown away by them I share them with friends and ask for their opinion. It's a pretty big leap for you to suggest I "forced" the songs on my friends. I simply gave them the opportunity to hear them. If that's obbsessd than yeah I guess I
am obsessed. I've been a  diehard fan for so long ppbebe and even though Gn'R are my second favorite band I'm willing to say(and I'll get blasted for this too likely) that I love them more and they mean more to me than some of the true fans on this very board. That's not a knock on them it's just an example of how much I love Gn'R. I'm so damn tired of people thinking that just becasue I have "Bono" as a username that my intentions on these boards are to alienate board members or to find constant fault with the new band or with Axl.  I'm a  straight shooter and I'm gonna give my opinion whether it be negative or positive, whether I'm gloriying or vilifying Axl. Whether I think someone says somthing ridicuous of if I completely agree. The point of these forums is for fans to discuss and debate and if I'm not gonna bother with other fans overly high expectations or fans likes and dislikes or any of that stuff than why should I even be here?  Why should any of us be here.

[russtcb]

Well how about you go to a U2 forum then and see how people are there. Those forums are the same as these forums in the sense that some people are incapable of being unbiased. Bono is God. The Edge is the greatest guitar player who ever lived and so on. Thye can do no wrong in the eyes of some.Though when the fans who do show true unbiased opinions there, their opinions are useually taken seriously and never labelled a hater the way they are on Gn'R forums. See to voice an opinion that doesn't glorify Axl or the new band here is heresy. It doesn't make Gn'R fans more loyal it only makes them more blind

The thing to me is, that in any forum for any band you're gonna here about how every member of that band is the greatest ever.

I personally feel that GN'R is the greatest force in rock. I thought that when Axl was the leader and he had a great lineup behind him in the 90s and I wasn't convinced in the early 00's. Then I went to see for myself in 02 and again in 06. I was blown away both times.

I honestly try to be as objective about GN'R as I can. I put up with an unbelieveable amount of shit about it from friends of mine who couldn't even hope to have listened to as much music as I have. They have the nerve to say that I'm sheltered.

In the end, if the music moves you thats all that matters, there's nothing else.

[italysfinest1985]

The Phantom Menace??? The Attack of the Clones??? WTF? Wait!? Hold on... THAT explains why there has been so much bitching lately!!!!? We've been invaded by the Star Wars geeks...

Funniest shit I ever heard! lmao

[Bono]

The thing to me is, that in any forum for any band you're gonna here about how every member of that band is the greatest ever.

I personally feel that GN'R is the greatest force in rock. I thought that when Axl was the leader and he had a great lineup behind him in the 90s and I wasn't convinced in the early 00's. Then I went to see for myself in 02 and again in 06. I was blown away both times.

I honestly try to be as objective about GN'R as I can. I put up with an unbelieveable amount of shit about it from friends of mine who couldn't even hope to have listened to as much music as I have. They have the nerve to say that I'm sheltered.

In the end, if the music moves you thats all that matters, there's nothing else.

I agree with you 100% russtcb. I mean it's the same thing for me with Gn'R. I put up with so much bullshit from freinds who ask why I still even support Axl. Why do I? It's all about the music for me and the potential in Axl. The guy has talent and he intrigues me. Does that mean I'm gonna worship everything he does? No. Will I like every song he ever writes? No. I feel a Guns fan forum should be a place where we can express dissapointment without being labelled a hater and such. For me persoanlly I think I post more than enough positive stuff that it should be obvious that I'm not all about trashing the new band. I also think it's o.k. to point out such things that alot of fans seem to have no perspective when it comes to being unbiased. It is only an opinion but I think it's quite obvious and not somthng to take offence to. If you(not you personally russtcb) don't fit the description than that's great right? That's what these places are for. Debate. ?What you say about your friends calling you "shelterd" when it comes to music is a shitty feeling. I know because my freinds say the same thing about me at times and like you they can only dream of hearing the amount of music I have. I DJ for a living damnit You're right, it's about the music and whether it moves you or not and to be looked down upon when you voice an opinion stating that the new songs don't move you is sucky. I mean ?alot of people instantly judge you for being musically stupid if a song like IRS or TWAT don't move you. they question your ?ability to appreciate and "feel" music. It's so lame.

[russtcb]

The thing to me is, that in any forum for any band you're gonna here about how every member of that band is the greatest ever.

I personally feel that GN'R is the greatest force in rock. I thought that when Axl was the leader and he had a great lineup behind him in the 90s and I wasn't convinced in the early 00's. Then I went to see for myself in 02 and again in 06. I was blown away both times.

I honestly try to be as objective about GN'R as I can. I put up with an unbelieveable amount of shit about it from friends of mine who couldn't even hope to have listened to as much music as I have. They have the nerve to say that I'm sheltered.

In the end, if the music moves you thats all that matters, there's nothing else.

I agree with you 100% russtcb. I mean it's the same thing for me with Gn'R. I put up with so much bullshit from freinds who ask why I still even support Axl. Why do I? It's all about the music for me and the potential in Axl. The guy has talent and he intrigues me. Does that mean I'm gonna worship everything he does? No. Will I like every song he ever writes? No. I feel a Guns fan forum should be a place where we can express dissapointment without being labelled a hater and such. For me persoanlly I think I post more than enough positive stuff that it should be obvious that I'm not all about trashing the new band. I also think it's o.k. to point out such things that alot of fans seem to have no perspective when it comes to being unbiased. It is only an opinion but I think it's quite obvious and not somthng to take offence to. If you(not you personally russtcb) don't fit the description than that's great right? That's what these places are for. Debate.  What you say about your friends calling you "shelterd" when it comes to music is a shitty feeling. I know because my freinds say the same thing about me at times and like you they can only dream of hearing the amount of music I have. I DJ for a living damnit You're right, it's about the music and whether it moves you or not and to be looked down upon when you voice an opinion stating that the new songs don't move you is sucky. I mean  alot of people instantly judge you for being musically stupid if a song like IRS or TWAT don't move you. they question your  ability to appreciate and "feel" music. It's so lame.

Holy shit did I agree with like 99.9% of everything you said. I happend to LOVE TWAT, but yeah, I get it overall. It's like if you don't agree with someone then you must be retarded musically. No. I don't think so. Great post and preach on.

[Bono]

Holy shit did I agree with like 99.9% of everything you said. I happend to LOVE TWAT, but yeah, I get it overall. It's like if you don't agree with someone then you must be retarded musically. No. I don't think so. Great post and preach on.

  Well the version of TWAT we've heard is a mess in my opinion but having said that I do believe it has the most potential of all the new songs to be epic and has the most room for improvement once the studio version is released

Great post preach on

Well someone's gotta take over from the real Bono someday