Based on what we have heard so far...

[Scabbie]

I can't fail on something that doesn't exist.
I can't hear something that doesn't exist.
I can't feel something that doesn't exist.

Dude, please tell us your 3 guitarist theory you explained on Sp1at. I'm interested to see the reaction.

[Skinflick]

That is the main reason GnR hit it big in the first place.? Its all about axls emotive singing style that makes guns n roses what it is.

Holy shit ... are you trying to start something?? That's antagonistic if ever I heard.? You KNOW that's not true.? As we all know, GnR was the sum of it's parts.

Axl's new band are making GREAT music.? But it's not phenomenal by any means.? I'm holding judgment on the stuff til the tunes come out on CD.

I partially agree with you but......the lead singer of ANY band is the most important component of that band. A voice representing the rest of the music....It is a lead guitarists wet dream to find a singer with a voice and stage presence. Don't believe me.....ask a guitar player...any guitar player.....the rest of the band is important also but someone like a drummer is very expendable unless he/she is lights out.......and this was brought to my attention a long time ago from people who are not big GNR fans....any musician who says otherwise is lying to your face brother.......

[robinfinckfan]

That is the main reason GnR hit it big in the first place.? Its all about axls emotive singing style that makes guns n roses what it is.

Holy shit ... are you trying to start something?? That's antagonistic if ever I heard.? You KNOW that's not true.? As we all know, GnR was the sum of it's parts.

Axl's new band are making GREAT music.? But it's not phenomenal by any means.? I'm holding judgment on the stuff til the tunes come out on CD.

I partially agree with you but......the lead singer of ANY band is the most important component of that band. A voice representing the rest of the music....It is a lead guitarists wet dream to find a singer with a voice and stage presence. Don't believe me.....ask a guitar player...any guitar player.....the rest of the band is important also but someone like a drummer is very expendable unless he/she is lights out.......and this was brought to my attention a long time ago from people who are not big GNR fans....any musician who says otherwise is lying to your face brother.......

I play guitar and I would give both of my nuts to have a singer that was comparable to axl rose, not just singing but the whole package, a ligitimate frontman. they don't exist and if they do their as fucked up as axl.

[Bono]

Where are these expectations coming from and how do yo guys justify them? there doesn't seem to be any common sense attatched to many of these comments.  Alot of you are setting yourselvess up for disapointment.

How come we can be disappointed after having felt the damn songs already? unrealistic.
and Common sense?
Instead, use your own ears. Listen to your heart rather than quibbling of the swollen head.
No word would tell it better. If not, so be it. these songs are not for you.

I wonder
How long has it been since you were touched by a piece of music last?   
When was the last time you found yourself bouncing or vibrating with music or even shedding tears of delight? Or Is there anything that goes to your heart at all, other than souvenirs of the good old days?

Remember the sensibility you used to have when you were still pimple faced.

Ha! Piss off with that last comment. yeah because I don't have these over the top expectations of CD or over the top appreciating for the new songs I can't feel music or I've never been moved by music.   What I was getting at here was comparing the new songs to things like Stairway to heaven and Teen Spirit is pretty ridiculous. I can tell you right now that Smells Like Teen Spirit is as popular in the bars today as it was when it was released. Better will never reach those heights. Not even close. Stairway to Heaven is a legendary classic(though I find it boreing) so comparing IRS to it is insane. That's what i'm getting at in terms of people's over the top expectations. If you personally love it than so be it but would it not sound ridiculous to you if I were to say that said song was the next Stairway? hell yes it would and I'd be called on it. Your personal opinion doesn't means songs are "the next" whatever songs you choose to compare it to.

 I know some of you love these new songs and I think they're good but personally for me none of these songs have a lasting quality to them. They're songs of the moment and that's it. Once CD is out I think this songs will be hard prssed to be remebered ten years down the road. Love'em all you want but I don't love them so don't be questioning my ability to feel or be moved by music because I don't share the sme enthusiasm for these specific songs. If that was indeed what you were insinuating.

[russtcb]

I know some of you love these new songs and I think they're good but personally for me none of these songs have a lasting quality to them. They're songs of the moment and that's it. Once CD is out I think this songs will be hard prssed to be remebered ten years down the road.

None of us can speak about what will be remembered 10 years from now. There seems to be a good amount of people who do see the leaks as being able to stand the test of time though.

[Skinflick]

That is the main reason GnR hit it big in the first place.? Its all about axls emotive singing style that makes guns n roses what it is.

Holy shit ... are you trying to start something?? That's antagonistic if ever I heard.? You KNOW that's not true.? As we all know, GnR was the sum of it's parts.

Axl's new band are making GREAT music.? But it's not phenomenal by any means.? I'm holding judgment on the stuff til the tunes come out on CD.

I partially agree with you but......the lead singer of ANY band is the most important component of that band. A voice representing the rest of the music....It is a lead guitarists wet dream to find a singer with a voice and stage presence. Don't believe me.....ask a guitar player...any guitar player.....the rest of the band is important also but someone like a drummer is very expendable unless he/she is lights out.......and this was brought to my attention a long time ago from people who are not big GNR fans....any musician who says otherwise is lying to your face brother.......

I play guitar and I would give both of my nuts to have a singer that was comparable to axl rose, not just singing but the whole package, a ligitimate frontman. they don't exist and if they do their as fucked up as axl.

Yup...

[requiem156]

That is the main reason GnR hit it big in the first place.? Its all about axls emotive singing style that makes guns n roses what it is.

Holy shit ... are you trying to start something?? That's antagonistic if ever I heard.? You KNOW that's not true.? As we all know, GnR was the sum of it's parts.

Axl's new band are making GREAT music.? But it's not phenomenal by any means.? I'm holding judgment on the stuff til the tunes come out on CD.

I partially agree with you but......the lead singer of ANY band is the most important component of that band. A voice representing the rest of the music....It is a lead guitarists wet dream to find a singer with a voice and stage presence. Don't believe me.....ask a guitar player...any guitar player.....the rest of the band is important also but someone like a drummer is very expendable unless he/she is lights out.......and this was brought to my attention a long time ago from people who are not big GNR fans....any musician who says otherwise is lying to your face brother.......

A lead singer is the most recognizable member of a band, not the most important - there is a difference. People may not react to the musicians in the same way that they do to a vocalist, but that doesn't mean that they are interchangeable.

Anyone who thinks that drummers are expendable hasn't heard good drummers. A singer might be what you recognize, but a good drummer is what makes your hips move. Why do you think Led Zeppelin broke up after Bonham died?

[Naupis]

Why do you think Led Zeppelin broke up after Bonham died?

Well, Robert Plant has said many times he thought it would have been disrespectful to John Bonham to replace him and continue on as Led Zepplin when Led Zepplin was the 4 of them. They easily could have done so and made a lot of money, I admire him though for having such a high level of integrity about the whole thing.

[madagas]

Didn't the Who once proclaim..."It's the singer not the song that makes the music move along." I trust their take on rock and roll. I too believe it is much easier to find drummers, bassists and guitar players than an original lead singer with distinctive voice, songwriting ability, and charisma. Axl would have been a star with or without the original Gnr. Maybe not as big as he was, but definitely more high profile than say Slash or Izzy if they never would have met Axl. As for Duff and Popcorn, just along for the ride. Just my opinion.

[Skinflick]

That is the main reason GnR hit it big in the first place.? Its all about axls emotive singing style that makes guns n roses what it is.

Holy shit ... are you trying to start something?? That's antagonistic if ever I heard.? You KNOW that's not true.? As we all know, GnR was the sum of it's parts.

Axl's new band are making GREAT music.? But it's not phenomenal by any means.? I'm holding judgment on the stuff til the tunes come out on CD.

I partially agree with you but......the lead singer of ANY band is the most important component of that band. A voice representing the rest of the music....It is a lead guitarists wet dream to find a singer with a voice and stage presence. Don't believe me.....ask a guitar player...any guitar player.....the rest of the band is important also but someone like a drummer is very expendable unless he/she is lights out.......and this was brought to my attention a long time ago from people who are not big GNR fans....any musician who says otherwise is lying to your face brother.......

A lead singer is the most recognizable member of a band, not the most important - there is a difference. People may not react to the musicians in the same way that they do to a vocalist, but that doesn't mean that they are interchangeable.

Anyone who thinks that drummers are expendable hasn't heard good drummers. A singer might be what you recognize, but a good drummer is what makes your hips move. Why do you think Led Zeppelin broke up after Bonham died?

All the band members are important....but a drummer is expendable UNLESS HE IS LIGHTS OUT......In other words, if your drummer is an asshole, or is unreliable at times or has a drug issue...another drummer is easier to find than a guitarist or singer. But the vocalist is the most important part dude....I know what you are saying but like I said....ask a guitarist....or the guitarist above who completely agreed with me......

[journey]

Axl would have been a star with or without the original Gnr.

There's no way to know that.

As for Duff and Popcorn, just along for the ride.

They were just as involved and vital as the rest in making AFD.

It's really obnoxious when people give the lead singer the quarterback treatment. He's important, but it's a team, which means every member is valuable. ?Go back and listen to the songs.

[russtcb]

Axl would have been a star with or without the original Gnr.

There's no way to know that.

As for Duff and Popcorn, just along for the ride.

They were just as involved and vital as the rest in making AFD.

It's really obnoxious when people give the lead singer the quarterback treatment. He's important, but it's a team, which means every member is valuable.  Go back and listen to the songs.

I have to agree with you here. I really do like alot of the new members, but the old band was truly great too. To just discount them based on your love of Axl would just be wrong.

[madagas]

I am not doing that....read my post again. It is not my "love" for Axl. It is an objective view of talent. Please spare me the Duff and Popcorn contributed the same as Axl to their success....please. Any band with Axl, Slash, and Izzy, no matter who the bass and drums were, was going to be phenomenal. Those three made Gnr in to what they were. Axl was a good 50% responsible for their mass appeal. He was the voice...and a VERY UNIQUE voice at that. Axl 50% of the Gnr brand...the music was the other 50%. From a public persona stanpoint, you could boil it down to Axl/Slash. It cracks me up when someone like Nesquick says fans want Duff-nobody on a general level knows who fucking Duff is! The public, not hardcore fans, know Gnr by that voice and by the signature riffs. Yes, it takes a team effort but certain players are the leaders and take the team to the next level.

[ShotgunBlues1978]

If the leaks and songs we've heard live are any indication of the new album as a whole, I don't think it will be this huge success that some of you think it will be.  I agree with the poster that stated that Better is the only song that measures up to the old GNR material.  And, I agree with the poster that said that there is something very tangibly missing in the guitar playing.  The guitar on the demos/live tracks is boring and meaningless to me.  It's emotionless.  The new music misses that Slash bluesy mastery for sure. I think if you gave IRS to Slash and asked him to rework it, it would be phenominal.

I'm sure I'm in the minority around these parts, but you can't replace a wold class guitar genius with session and  studio musicians and a guy who plays 200 notes a second without emotion.  I think the demos show you why.

Not only IRS, but Slash would also do a fantastic job on the TWAT outro for sure... 1st solo (Robin) is great, but on the second solo (outro) played by Buckethead, Slash would DESTROY him. Just hear the Outros of Paradise City, November Rain or Locomotive (2nd part with the wah-wah), hear Slash play... give him the TWAT instrumental and let him write, create and play his own guitar melodies... I'm sure he would create something unique that would bring that song to another dimension...

Take the earplugs out please.  Buckethead's TWAT outro is perfect.  I know that it must bother you that the hated Buckethead has recorded a great solo that's full of emotion and that your complaints about him being only a shredder were proven false.  Your endless complaining about shredding is so old.  Slash had some solos that were reminiscent of Buckethead's on IRS.  Like his short, fast solos on songs like Garden Of Eden or Perfect Crime they weren't shredding but they're short solos where Slash plays fast that aren't that emotional either.  They sound cool, they fit the songs, but they aren't dripping with emotion.  Buckethead's solo on IRS fits the song and the moment very well.  You need to get over it, Buckethead's solos will be on there and you're not going to change anyone's opinion by continuing to say the exact same thing over and over again

[requiem156]

That is the main reason GnR hit it big in the first place.? Its all about axls emotive singing style that makes guns n roses what it is.

Holy shit ... are you trying to start something?? That's antagonistic if ever I heard.? You KNOW that's not true.? As we all know, GnR was the sum of it's parts.

Axl's new band are making GREAT music.? But it's not phenomenal by any means.? I'm holding judgment on the stuff til the tunes come out on CD.

I partially agree with you but......the lead singer of ANY band is the most important component of that band. A voice representing the rest of the music....It is a lead guitarists wet dream to find a singer with a voice and stage presence. Don't believe me.....ask a guitar player...any guitar player.....the rest of the band is important also but someone like a drummer is very expendable unless he/she is lights out.......and this was brought to my attention a long time ago from people who are not big GNR fans....any musician who says otherwise is lying to your face brother.......

A lead singer is the most recognizable member of a band, not the most important - there is a difference. People may not react to the musicians in the same way that they do to a vocalist, but that doesn't mean that they are interchangeable.

Anyone who thinks that drummers are expendable hasn't heard good drummers. A singer might be what you recognize, but a good drummer is what makes your hips move. Why do you think Led Zeppelin broke up after Bonham died?

All the band members are important....but a drummer is expendable UNLESS HE IS LIGHTS OUT......In other words, if your drummer is an asshole, or is unreliable at times or has a drug issue...another drummer is easier to find than a guitarist or singer. But the vocalist is the most important part dude....I know what you are saying but like I said....ask a guitarist....or the guitarist above who completely agreed with me......

I am a guitarist. So, acording to your theory, if Axl was in a band, it wouldn't matter what the skill level of the other members was, because he is the most important part? In any case, the most important part of any band is the person who writes quality songs. Pete Townsend wrote almost everything that the Who ever recorded - Roger Daltrey barely wrote at all - do you think Townsend is more replaceable than Daltrey? On the other hand, David Coverdale replaced Ian Gillan in Deep Purple, Dio replaced Ozzy in Sabbath, Bruce Dickinson replaced Paul Dianno in Iron Maiden, and probably most famously, Brian Johnson repaced Bon Scott in AC/DC.

Point #2- a new guitar player or singer is usually easier to find than a drummer because good drummers are hard to come by and generally in demand. If you had been in bands, you would know that. Drums are not the attractive instrument to learn because they take more coordination, even at rudimentary levels, than any other instrument in a rock band(all things being equal), consequently there are a lot less drummers around, nevermind talented ones.

Bottom line, you really can't generalize these things because any quality band has individual strong points.

[Mikkamakka]

Generally people recognize a band mostly by the singer. But. It's not because te singers would be so out-of-the-world talented but cause people know jack shit about music. They don't understand it all. They're functionally deaf. Some of them (most of them?  ) can't even tell which instrument plays what. They hear it as a mess. But they can understand that the vocalist sings about his tortured soul, past loves, gettin' high etc. And they can reproduce the vocals without any musical knowledge, they can sing it in the bathroom, in the toilet, in the streets. (Well, it'll be out-of-tone as hell, but won't hear it.) They can't do it with an instrument.

Those people who overestimate the importance of the singers should listen to some opera and classical music. Who was the genius: Mozart who wrote everything (instrumental pieces or music & vocals), or the actual primadonna? Most lead singers don't have any clue about music and know some chords at best so they need musicians to write songs or to explore their (singers...) primitive ideas into real songs.

[WARose]

Generally people recognize a band mostly by the singer. But. It's not because te singers would be so out-of-the-world talented but cause people know jack shit about music. They don't understand it all. They're functionally deaf. Some of them (most of them?  ) can't even tell which instrument plays what. They hear it as a mess. But they can understand that the vocalist sings about his tortured soul, past loves, gettin' high etc. And they can reproduce the vocals without any musical knowledge, they can sing it in the bathroom, in the toilet, in the streets. (Well, it'll be out-of-tone as hell, but won't hear it.) They can't do it with an instrument.

Those people who overestimate the importance of the singers should listen to some opera and classical music. Who was the genius: Mozart who wrote everything (instrumental pieces or music & vocals), or the actual primadonna? Most lead singers don't have any clue about music and know some chords at best so they need musicians to write songs or to explore their (singers...) primitive ideas into real songs.

yeah.... that`s madagas`point      that`s why axl was so important to gnr?s succes...

[Skinflick]

That is the main reason GnR hit it big in the first place.? Its all about axls emotive singing style that makes guns n roses what it is.

Holy shit ... are you trying to start something?? That's antagonistic if ever I heard.? You KNOW that's not true.? As we all know, GnR was the sum of it's parts.

Axl's new band are making GREAT music.? But it's not phenomenal by any means.? I'm holding judgment on the stuff til the tunes come out on CD.

I partially agree with you but......the lead singer of ANY band is the most important component of that band. A voice representing the rest of the music....It is a lead guitarists wet dream to find a singer with a voice and stage presence. Don't believe me.....ask a guitar player...any guitar player.....the rest of the band is important also but someone like a drummer is very expendable unless he/she is lights out.......and this was brought to my attention a long time ago from people who are not big GNR fans....any musician who says otherwise is lying to your face brother.......

A lead singer is the most recognizable member of a band, not the most important - there is a difference. People may not react to the musicians in the same way that they do to a vocalist, but that doesn't mean that they are interchangeable.

Anyone who thinks that drummers are expendable hasn't heard good drummers. A singer might be what you recognize, but a good drummer is what makes your hips move. Why do you think Led Zeppelin broke up after Bonham died?

All the band members are important....but a drummer is expendable UNLESS HE IS LIGHTS OUT......In other words, if your drummer is an asshole, or is unreliable at times or has a drug issue...another drummer is easier to find than a guitarist or singer. But the vocalist is the most important part dude....I know what you are saying but like I said....ask a guitarist....or the guitarist above who completely agreed with me......

I am a guitarist. So, acording to your theory, if Axl was in a band, it wouldn't matter what the skill level of the other members was, because he is the most important part? In any case, the most important part of any band is the person who writes quality songs. Pete Townsend wrote almost everything that the Who ever recorded - Roger Daltrey barely wrote at all - do you think Townsend is more replaceable than Daltrey? On the other hand, David Coverdale replaced Ian Gillan in Deep Purple, Dio replaced Ozzy in Sabbath, Bruce Dickinson replaced Paul Dianno in Iron Maiden, and probably most famously, Brian Johnson repaced Bon Scott in AC/DC.

Point #2- a new guitar player or singer is usually easier to find than a drummer because good drummers are hard to come by and generally in demand. If you had been in bands, you would know that. Drums are not the attractive instrument to learn because they take more coordination, even at rudimentary levels, than any other instrument in a rock band(all things being equal), consequently there are a lot less drummers around, nevermind talented ones.

Bottom line, you really can't generalize these things because any quality band has individual strong points.

I see what you're saying but I am a singer and have played with bands and all of that shit...I know plenty of guitar players....I didn't say the other musicians were not important....you are taking it WWWWAAAAYYYY to literally bro. I can't tell you how many times I have gotten asked to join a band because either they hated their singer or didn't have one and they can't FIND anyone else to fit the bill. But a drummer.....forget about it.....they ask around for 2 days and have 7 trying out for the band.....I can't play a guitar ( I wish that I could) but I am very aware of the talent it takes to be a good one....believe me. They are NOT easy to find either. There is a lot of chemistry that has to be involved.....

[madagas]

That was my point although I think Axl has fairly good songwriting skills as well.

[Mikkamakka]

Generally people recognize a band mostly by the singer. But. It's not because te singers would be so out-of-the-world talented but cause people know jack shit about music. They don't understand it all. They're functionally deaf. Some of them (most of them?? ) can't even tell which instrument plays what. They hear it as a mess. But they can understand that the vocalist sings about his tortured soul, past loves, gettin' high etc. And they can reproduce the vocals without any musical knowledge, they can sing it in the bathroom, in the toilet, in the streets. (Well, it'll be out-of-tone as hell, but won't hear it.) They can't do it with an instrument.

Those people who overestimate the importance of the singers should listen to some opera and classical music. Who was the genius: Mozart who wrote everything (instrumental pieces or music & vocals), or the actual primadonna? Most lead singers don't have any clue about music and know some chords at best so they need musicians to write songs or to explore their (singers...) primitive ideas into real songs.

yeah.... that`s madagas`point ? ? ?that`s why axl was so important to gnr?s succes...

I don't think so since he can't write songs alone. One (NR) takes 8 years for him - without the magic solos. 

Axl is a genius but he needs others to write the music.