How has Axl managed to stop(slow) the leaks so much?

[Gargh!]

The idea that the album has been recorded in the past two years is obviously wrong.  Was IRS not recorded as far back as 1999?

[estrangedpaul]

I remember the leaks started with a simple post by a guy called Wes on MyGnRForum:

http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?showtopic=61733

I'm certain there was no mention of these leaks before this on any forum.
It was his first post and he just said he's had IRS, Better and There Was A Time demos. He didn't seem to realise the significance of it, it was casual. Nobody believed him, I posted on page 2 calling it bullshit but the next day, I think, IRS leaked.

You guys probably know about him already but what is interesting is that he said he's had them since November 2004. Why would he have them if management leaked them. Has it ever been proved who this Wes guy is?

Incidentally, everyone's reaction, including mine is so funny in hindsight.

I should have been a bit clearer in my response.

I know Wes and Saint Saiya were, pretty much, the "sources" for the original material, in that they were the ones who initially brought it to the net.? What I meant when I said "I don't know who the original source of the materisl is" is that I don't think Wes and the Saint were the ORIGINAL source.? Someone(s) got the tracks and eventually they got to those 2 people.? Add to that fact I don't know Wes or the Saint, personally.? But I do find the "original strip club" story that Wes has told a bit....well....lets just say I don't believe it and think Wes is covering for someone.

Catcher is an animal of a different color.? It did NOT come from the same source at IRS, Better, and TWAT.? It's the enigma, of all the leaks, for me.

It's been confirmed that the IRS version we have is the same as the one Trunk played.? If you listen the the "crappy" version of IRS (with radio static, etc) that leaked about 6 months (maybe a year) prior to the "clean" version leaking, you can tell they're the same version, too.

Even if it is the same recording of IRS it came from a different source. The original leak was recorded of the radio. The leak in February clearly wasn't the same version just cleared it up, it must have came direct from the original CD or a different CD with the same version of IRS.

The only thing that adds weight to the theory that management leaked the songs is the fact that the three songs leaked that were played live came from the same source, like it was planned. Whereas Catcher In The Rye came from a different source and coincidentally wasn't played live. It's like management may have leaked the three songs and someone else, thinking that everything was gonna leak decided to leak Catcher seperately. When management tried to track down the leaker, they were really trying to get the CITR leaker, fearful he would leak more songs.

However, if the first three were leaked by management, why would Wes have the songs from Nov 2004. Plus leaking songs in that fashion just doesn't seem Axl's style.

The idea that an auditioning guitarist had the demos is a good one and would explain why the three songs that leaked were the same three songs which were played live, which were the ones the guitarist would have to learn. But I doubt Axl had decided on which songs to play live as far back as Nov 2004, when Wes first got the songs. But who knows?

[Voodoochild]

Maybe he lied about having the songs since 2004.

[pilferk]

Even if it is the same recording of IRS it came from a different source. The original leak was recorded of the radio. The leak in February clearly wasn't the same version just cleared it up, it must have came direct from the original CD or a different CD with the same version of IRS.

Note that I said, in my post, same version, not same source.? I don't think it was the same source.? But the "version" (ie: it is the same recording, the same track, from the same "studio session", if you want to call it that) is the same as the one Trunk played.

I'm not going to open up the huge can of worms that was this discussion, before, but I will say this:

Eddie Trunk said Better was not on the CD that he had that contained IRS.

People have argued with me over his credibility as a source on the matter but...well, I believe him.? Take that for what you will.

[pilferk]

Maybe he lied about having the songs since 2004.

Not to throw them under the bus, but I suspect that's the case.  But I think the reason for the fabricated story, using bits of widely available information, was to protect whoever the original source of the tracks is.  But that's just my speculation....

[phi_kai_phi]

Well,was it coincidence that Gnr leaked tracks was tracks which they played on tour

something strange

I don't think that it proves anything one way or another.  A very possible scenario is that the band wanted to play some new songs that havn't been heard before.  Let's assume CD will have 15 tracks.  3 leaks plus 3 new songs would mean that there'd be 6 that've already been heard.  Include the "old" new songs we've heard and the whole album may not have many new songs left to reveal. 

It makes a lot more sense to just play the songs that have been leaked.

[estrangedpaul]

Even if it is the same recording of IRS it came from a different source. The original leak was recorded of the radio. The leak in February clearly wasn't the same version just cleared it up, it must have came direct from the original CD or a different CD with the same version of IRS.

Note that I said, in my post, same version, not same source.? I don't think it was the same source.? But the "version" (ie: it is the same recording, the same track, from the same "studio session", if you want to call it that) is the same as the one Trunk played.

I'm not going to open up the huge can of worms that was this discussion, before, but I will say this:

Eddie Trunk said Better was not on the CD that he had that contained IRS.

People have argued with me over his credibility as a source on the matter but...well, I believe him.? Take that for what you will.

I know I didn't want to argue over the different recordings of IRS,  just wanted to clarify myself coz I was a little unsure. I know about Trunk's claims and I don't believe the songs came from him. I think the theory that it came from another guitar player makes sense and it explains why the three songs that leaked were the three songs played live. Because they were the songs Axl told that guitar player to learn and so he gave him them three songs. If they came from somewhere else, I doubt Axl would have allowed the leaks to influence his song selection. Just my opinion. So the guitarist thing makes sense. Also, October 2004 is around the time Bumblefoot first auditioned with Guns. If you look at the news archive, GnR management denied they had taken on another guitarist yet, but its clear they were audtioning people around that time. Wes claims he has them since one month after that so it adds up. I doubt Wes lied about when he got the songs, it was just a casual comment made when he first announced he had the songs.

[madagas]

Management would never leak songs that sound, from a production standpoint, that BAD. If that is the production and final version of IRS, TWAT.....this album will be a terrible disappointment. Who cares where the leaks came from...just as long as they did not come from management. I don't think there is any way in hell that management leaked this stuff.

[Voodoochild]

If BBF had to go to Sanctuary's office to listen to the new songs to learn how to play it, why would the band give 3 unheard new songs back in 2004 for unreliable people? Also, they could give any of the new songs already played live back then, there was no need to show new stuff - remember we're talkin' about GN'R, it's not like any other band who doesn't care much about leaks...

Management would never leak songs that sound, from a production standpoint, that BAD. If that is the production and final version of IRS, TWAT.....this album will be a terrible disappointment.

Of course it's not the case. I can tell just by hearing the mixing on those demos, but if you don't believe me, just listen to IRS live and compare with the demos we have.

[1badapple]

did anyone ever check wes's ip addy to see where he's from? not that it really matters, but i was kinda curious.

i think it's something that was orchestrated. by whom, i don't know, but i just think it's too weird that a dude pops into a GnR forum one day, says he has new songs, and then turns around and proves it! Then we start getting show announcements within weeks of the leaks. i find it really hard to swallow that it's all some big coincidence.

Maybe this wes dude is someone that Axl knows and trusts, and he has had the songs since 04, and was given the nod on when to do it, and how to go about gettin it done.

[W. Adam S]

I was thinking it was a big coincidence that straight after the songs were leaked they anounced the European shows, as if maybe Axl had leaked them intentionaly but then I thought what if the promoter or someone else connected with running the tour had asked for some proof Axl had some new stuff to do and it wasn't just going to be another "lets play some appetite, make some money then lay low for another 4 years" kind of gig. If this is the case then lots of new people may have had access to the tracks.

[estrangedpaul]

If BBF had to go to Sanctuary's office to listen to the new songs to learn how to play it, why would the band give 3 unheard new songs back in 2004 for unreliable people?

They obviously changed policy after the leaks. Back in 2004 they may have trusted the auditioning guitarists. Now, after the leaks, they don't, hence BBF having to go to Sanctuary's office to listen to the new songs to learn how to play them.