Paradox : how would you argue ...

[2NaFish]

the idea of the cult of hitler means that most of the country was co-erced into the position. in their minds they were doing what they wanted but were only free to do as they were told.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

yeah, but if you go down to local minds, and also at the begining of the issue

it always start will local, simple free will choice

" hi i'm hitler, what's going on? "
" i'm good, how r u ? "
" good, i hate jews, you too ? "
" yeah, lets go talk to that guy over there ... "

 down > top

[2NaFish]

thats too simple. if it was continually one-on-one then you'd have a point, but the sheer volume of people involved means that they were subconscioulsy pressured into accepting nazi values.

your point also doenst deal with anything in the middle or the end. it doesnt necessarily follow that simply because you start something (the nazi party) that its going to take off.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

the sheer of people grows with time

but locally the inter-action between the actors have a huge effect.
in every organisation, the simple link and power-relation between an actor and another structures the global output.

yes, the number growing, it is hard to define how 1 link, 1 relation can have an impact, but it does.

there might not be a nazi party, but there at sometime starting points.
(theorically, there must be a UNIQUE starting point, cause 2 events cannot happen at the same time in some theories in our dimension ...)

[Axls Locomotive]

not that i want to try to prove that a god exists or not,

maybe gods lifespan has...ceased

maybe youve put god on a far higher pedestal than maybe he should be on...maybe god created the universe but does now no longer have the ability to change it in any significant way...you assume he would have the power to do anything when that may not be necessarily so...if mighty power is seen by those that do not understand it then it will always be interpreted as godlike behaviour...therefore the paradox is too simple

[Jim]

Zarathustra? Is that you?

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

not that i want to try to prove that a god exists or not,

maybe gods lifespan has...ceased

maybe youve put god on a far higher pedestal than maybe he should be on...maybe god created the universe but does now no longer have the ability to change it in any significant way...you assume he would have the power to do anything when that may not be necessarily so...if mighty power is seen by those that do not understand it then it will always be interpreted as godlike behaviour...therefore the paradox is too simple

the paradox is too simple because we don't understand it ....



(man i think my brain just snapped ...)

[Axls Locomotive]

Zarathustra? Is that you?

uhhh yea sure that me ...ehhh youve read ma book?

the paradox is too simple because we don't understand it ....



(man i think my brain just snapped ...)

i was just trying to...take things out of a 2 dimensional plain...i thought my points were valid...what dont you understand about the paradox? do you think it impossible for humans to deal with more than 2 variables?

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

Zarathustra? Is that you?

uhhh yea sure that me ...ehhh youve read ma book?

the paradox is too simple because we don't understand it ....



(man i think my brain just snapped ...)

i was just trying to...take things out of a 2 dimensional plain...i thought my points were valid...what dont you understand about the paradox? do you think it impossible for humans to deal with more than 2 variables?

well ... you know .... what you said .... talked about .... a power that has no power .... anymore .... on earth and stuff ... so it does not apply to .... the paradox .... anymore .... you know .... the paradox .... apply to the classical religious god .... you know .... omnipotent .... almighty .... all good .... voil? ....

[Izzy]

thats too simple. if it was continually one-on-one then you'd have a point, but the sheer volume of people involved means that they were subconscioulsy pressured into accepting nazi values.

Pressured?

Subconciously?

C'mon just face the fact that a significant number of Germans embraced considerable chunks of Nazi ideology - there propoganda was damn good, but they were pushing on an unlocked door, European society was saturated with nationalist and anti semitic sentiment

German support for the Nazi's wasn't some magic spell and nor was it purely obedience from terror

And attitudes in the 30's and 40's were so corrupt that with similiar socio economic conditions he could have taken over just about anywhere

PC attitudes have history altered so it was a handful of maniacs enslaving a peace loving, jew loving society - thats not what happened

[Izzy]

Let's start with the paradox
a famous one

The Epicurean paradox is a famous argument against the existence of an all-powerful and providential God. The paradox is quoted as this:

"God either wants
 to eliminate bad things and cannot,
or can but does not want to,
or neither wishes to nor can,
or both wants to and can.

If he wants to and cannot, he is weak -- and this does not apply to god.
If he can but does not want to, then he is spiteful -- which is equally foreign to god's nature.
If he neither wants to nor can, he is both weak and spiteful and so not a god.
If he wants to and can, which is the only thing fitting for a god, where then do bad things come from?

Or why does he not eliminate them?"--Epicurus

let's talk about that and then we can discuss other paradox you invent or famous ones?

That overcomplicates things

If God knows all and sees all then he knows who will sin before they have even been created

Therefore creating Hitler was a pre-meditated excercise - God knew what would happen and created him anyway

God also knew who the good lot were going to be

So therefore - what would then be the purpose of creating people - a sinner was always going to be a sinner and had no chance of altering that!

Religion makes no sense other than as a tool to excercise control over others

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

i think the definition of God limits to almighty and allgood. no seeing the future. ?

[Danny Top Hat]

If God knows all and sees all then he knows who will sin before they have even been created

Do you not believe in free will all of a sudden?

[Izzy]

If God knows all and sees all then he knows who will sin before they have even been created

Do you not believe in free will all of a sudden?

No - i dont believe in a god (other than Robbie Fowler )

We have full control of our lives within the confines of our physical/economic environment. If you rob a bank that was ur choice (or the consequence of some strange tropical disease )

Henry scored because he applied the right amount of power and swerve - not because God wanted it

(ps. though maybe the Korean betting agency that had paid the ref wanted it too....)

[Axls Locomotive]

i think the definition of God limits to almighty and allgood. no seeing the future. ?

changing the rules again are you?

If God knows all and sees all then he knows who will sin before they have even been created

Do you not believe in free will all of a sudden?

was it your choice to be born?

[MCT]

The problem of course with this argument is that we are human and unable to escape the nutshell of being human. Much in the same way I suppose that a seagull can never be...say, a sea urchin. Meaning that the poor bird is fundamentally limited to the nature of its existence. It HAS to be what it is.

Therefore, anything that we are capable of conceiving as individuals or as a species - in this case, an argument for the existence of God as a concept - is fundamentally confined to the boundary of our existential nutshell. The very nature of which dictates that we are incapable of true empathy regarding a being such as "God", and what this "God" is supposed to be - a "higher" being than us.

Mustard seeds, His image and getting stoned with a whore...sounds like fun! Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!