Paradox : how would you argue ...

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

Let's start with the paradox
a famous one

The Epicurean paradox is a famous argument against the existence of an all-powerful and providential God. The paradox is quoted as this:

"God either wants
 to eliminate bad things and cannot,
or can but does not want to,
or neither wishes to nor can,
or both wants to and can.

If he wants to and cannot, he is weak -- and this does not apply to god.
If he can but does not want to, then he is spiteful -- which is equally foreign to god's nature.
If he neither wants to nor can, he is both weak and spiteful and so not a god.
If he wants to and can, which is the only thing fitting for a god, where then do bad things come from?

Or why does he not eliminate them?"--Epicurus

let's talk about that and then we can discuss other paradox you invent or famous ones 

[Danny Top Hat]

Is God does exist, all he did was put us here.  The rest is up to us.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

Is God does exist, all he did was put us here.  The rest is up to us.

are you talking about a GOD in the terms of " all powerfull and super very nice" god ?
but the paradox is that, if he is omnipotent (one of is characteristic) he sees us suffering, why doesn't he stop this suffering?
he is perfect sense of goodness cannot tolerate him testing us or letting us deal with our suffering?

[AxlsMainMan]

He chooses not to end our suffering because the greatest gift he gave you was free will, and freedom of choice.

He therefore chooses not to end you're suffering probably because it was through you're own choices that you began too suffer, and only you're decision to end the suffering, will ever in fact truly end it.

God will never intervene in our lives, no matter how complex or trying the situations we are faced with may be...

He wants us to think and care for ourselves, while loving thy neighbor

[Genesis]

About the same as what AxlsMainMan said, plus the fact that us mere mortals wouldn't understand his plan whatever it is...

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

so letting someone struggle with difficulties while you have the power to help is tolerated by the concept of "perfect goodness" ?

would a father let his daughter being raped in front of him if *she* got herself in trouble ?

i'm just trying to understand some point of views ...

[AxlsMainMan]

A large majority of the world's population surely suffers on a daily basis, so is God supposed to help everyone who is feelin' blue, or down on their luck?

If the girl being raped "got herself into trouble", dont you see a slight chance of her getting herself into trouble yet again?

What I mean by that is that past trends have a habit of repeating themselves, so why would God help someone see the error of their ways, only for them to do it again..

If God taught you, and told you everything you'd need to know in life, the world would quite a boring place would it not?

& I much rather learn from my own mistakes, then learn even from a higher power who does not walk in my shoes.

Everyone was put here for a reason, it's just a matter of time before you find out what you're own reason for being here with us today was.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

so God is not perfect goodness.
because pure goodness could not restrain from helping someone in difficluty?

i see what you think, i see how it applies to a "man's mind" but aren't we projecting "our" views and concept INTO God's concept ... isnt that afterall ... arent all these gods TOO humans ...

see how the ancient greek gods shared human traits and personalities, reactions and feelings ...


take any religion, what is the point of a young girl born in africa, who suffers from birth to her death (around 5 years old, being raped and killed by 20 men) ... i dont understand the plan behidn that ? or am is supposed not to understand ... ?

[AxlsMainMan]

God will always be interpreted a thousand different ways by anyone who has faith, so no I dont view it as "projecting OUR views into God's concept" since it is our own person collection of beliefs that compose this "God" in our thoughs and prayer.

It's just fucking ironic that over in the Middle East, the conflict always originates from religion.

I mean, even if everyone who composed the world's population were to read the Bible, it would be ridiculous to think that they are all going to take away from it's teachings, the exact same principles and concepts.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

God will always be interpreted a thousand different ways by anyone who has faith, so no I dont view it as "projecting OUR views into God's concept" since it is our own person collection of beliefs that compose this "God" in our thoughs and prayer.

It's just fucking ironic that over in the Middle East, the conflict always originates from religion.

I mean, even if everyone who composed the world's population were to read the Bible, it would be ridiculous to think that they are all going to take away from it's teachings, the exact same principles and concepts.

yeah, you kinda right.
but religion is not the source in my opinion. the issues, all over the world, middle east or not, are classic issues related to our nature.

[AxlsMainMan]

God will always be interpreted a thousand different ways by anyone who has faith, so no I dont view it as "projecting OUR views into God's concept" since it is our own person collection of beliefs that compose this "God" in our thoughs and prayer.

It's just fucking ironic that over in the Middle East, the conflict always originates from religion.

I mean, even if everyone who composed the world's population were to read the Bible, it would be ridiculous to think that they are all going to take away from it's teachings, the exact same principles and concepts.

yeah, you kinda right.
but religion is not the source in my opinion. the issues, all over the world, middle east or not, are classic issues related to our nature.

You dont think our own personal beliefs, religious or not aren't apparent in our nature, or our day to day routines?

You might have a point in regards to the world outside of the Middle East, but over there, religion is supreme, and obviously worth dying for...just see kamikazee pilots, or carbombings for further details..

[2NaFish]

He chooses not to end our suffering because the greatest gift he gave you was free will, and freedom of choice.

He therefore chooses not to end you're suffering probably because it was through you're own choices that you began too suffer, and only you're decision to end the suffering, will ever in fact truly end it.

God will never intervene in our lives, no matter how complex or trying the situations we are faced with may be...

He wants us to think and care for ourselves, while loving thy neighbor

that only covers bad things done by humans, what about suffering that doesnt occur from humans? like natural disasters?

They are clearly not soul building nor necessary? Why does God allow them?

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

God will always be interpreted a thousand different ways by anyone who has faith, so no I dont view it as "projecting OUR views into God's concept" since it is our own person collection of beliefs that compose this "God" in our thoughs and prayer.

It's just fucking ironic that over in the Middle East, the conflict always originates from religion.

I mean, even if everyone who composed the world's population were to read the Bible, it would be ridiculous to think that they are all going to take away from it's teachings, the exact same principles and concepts.

yeah, you kinda right.
but religion is not the source in my opinion. the issues, all over the world, middle east or not, are classic issues related to our nature.

You dont think our own personal beliefs, religious or not aren't apparent in our nature, or our day to day routines?

You might have a point in regards to the world outside of the Middle East, but over there, religion is supreme, and obviously worth dying for...just see kamikazee pilots, or carbombings for further details..

yes our religious believes, religion in extenso, are just a written-down map of our nature.
we created our gods, beliefs and such from our inner nature and inter dependencies.

therefore god does not exist, or not in the religious/biblical sense of the term.

yes religion is a huge part of the middle east. they just didnt replace it with money and sex yet.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

They are clearly not soul building nor necessary? Why does God allow them?

no invisible hand.
if there is a god he just created earth, humans, space, rules and disapeared.
therefore there is no god.
the only way there can be a god (or more) is if it's not the almighty/pure-goodness religious god.

[2NaFish]

so tecniqually your statement of "therefore there is no god" is fallacious. it should be if there is a God, then He can't be all-knowing, all-powerful and all-good.

[Danny Top Hat]

Is God does exist, all he did was put us here.? The rest is up to us.

are you talking about a GOD in the terms of " all powerfull and super very nice" god ?
but the paradox is that, if he is omnipotent (one of is characteristic) he sees us suffering, why doesn't he stop this suffering?
he is perfect sense of goodness cannot tolerate him testing us or letting us deal with our suffering?

I don't know anything about God. ?All I know is we're here and pain and suffering are just another set of realities that we have to accept. ?There's no point in questioning them because it won't get us anywhere - the world is wonderful but it's not perfect, just like life.

[AxlsMainMan]

He chooses not to end our suffering because the greatest gift he gave you was free will, and freedom of choice.

He therefore chooses not to end you're suffering probably because it was through you're own choices that you began too suffer, and only you're decision to end the suffering, will ever in fact truly end it.

God will never intervene in our lives, no matter how complex or trying the situations we are faced with may be...

He wants us to think and care for ourselves, while loving thy neighbor

that only covers bad things done by humans, what about suffering that doesnt occur from humans? like natural disasters?

They are clearly not soul building nor necessary? Why does God allow them?

Ive often read theories that describe these "natural" disasters are in fact pre-determined by a higher power, be it God or not, because the world's population is rapidly escalating on a daily basis even at such an astronomical increment, that there simply isn't enough food, or natural resources to support all these people, therefore "natural" disasters must occur to kill off a few hundred to a few thousand people every few weeks.

It's a very far out there theory, but I am inclined to believe it is very much accurate.

[pebbles]

its all so confusing and hard to understand,i think this life that we deal with everyday is part of the punishment for sin. jmo. its hard for me to put into words.

[2NaFish]

Ive often read theories that describe these "natural" disasters are in fact pre-determined by a higher power, be it God or not, because the world's population is rapidly escalating on a daily basis even at such an astronomical increment, that there simply isn't enough food, or natural resources to support all these people, therefore "natural" disasters must occur to kill off a few hundred to a few thousand people every few weeks.

It's a very far out there theory, but I am inclined to believe it is very much accurate.

not that i agree with that (i think it proves God as not all-loving. the amount of devastation is unnecessary for an omnipotent being) but what happens with things like the Holocaust?

Whilst it is man-made it doesnt simply come under free-will as it took the coercion of millions to follow through. It is not character building (so the original free will argument goes out the window) it is clearly unnecessarily cruel (God not loving) so therefore God can't stop it. Following Epicurus this means He isnt omnipotent.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

i dont follow you

hollocaust is derived from free will ... just a composition of inter dependant freewills.