Very upsetting topic about babies and death

[Kaybee]

reading my own posts makes me realise that I have some serious issues.

Yeah... It was... strange and kind of disturbing to read.

[Sin Cut]

I'm with rubber bullets on this one.

I'll explain.

I was at the bar and there was this girl in a wheelchair and me and my friend were the only ones to keep her company, everyone else stayed away like she got some plauge or something.

We both felt really fucked 'cos of this girl, she knew what's going to happen and that she'd die in a couple of yers to her disease (it's something that first her muscles stop to work, or nerves actually and it slowly destroys her brain). And if that would ever happen to me, I would be grateful for someone to put me outta my misery. I'm still trying to keep in touch with the girl, since frankly I might be the only guy she knows, next week I planned I'll take my calmer dog who shouldn't flip out when seeing a wheel chair (my other dog gets nervous when something new happens).

Also if I'd have a handicapped kid I'd give it away, I just couldn't let my life be ruined like that. And how painful would it be to live to look someones misery, it's not like they don't get that they're different.

But this is just when someone is badly handicapped.

EDIT:
but if they really let them starve to death.. that just wrong. why just not give them a big electric shock if that has to be done. No pain.

[anythinggoes]

why just not give them a big electric shock if that has to be done. No pain.

have you ever had an electric shock

no pain

fuck that

they hurt like a motherfucker

at the end of the day whether or not you agree what they are doing is illegal

[Sin Cut]

why just not give them a big electric shock if that has to be done. No pain.

have you ever had an electric shock

no pain

fuck that

they hurt like a motherfucker

at the end of the day whether or not you agree what they are doing is illegal

I have, but I'm talking of a bit higher voltage here, the same they kill animals at the butcher

[Shirell]

I've heard of this happening at other hospitals as well.  It happens in care home for the elderly too.  It's too horrible to even think about.

[anythinggoes]

why just not give them a big electric shock if that has to be done. No pain.

have you ever had an electric shock

no pain

fuck that

they hurt like a motherfucker

at the end of the day whether or not you agree what they are doing is illegal

I have, but I'm talking of a bit higher voltage here, the same they kill animals at the butcher

the difference being they are humans not animals and they have the same rights to life as you or me regardless of what they cant do

[2112]

poison then?

[Duffsangel]

I work in a uk hospital too. ?

I'm sitting here looking a baby about 3 months who has just been bought down from ICU on the way to neo natal care. ?
She's a cute little thing - How can anyone play God to that extreme, Doctors and nurses are about saving and giving life - not taking.

[GNR_Green]

why just not give them a big electric shock if that has to be done. No pain.

have you ever had an electric shock

no pain

fuck that

they hurt like a motherfucker

at the end of the day whether or not you agree what they are doing is illegal

I have, but I'm talking of a bit higher voltage here, the same they kill animals at the butcher

the difference being they are humans not animals and they have the same rights to life as you or me regardless of what they cant do

I have an issue with the point in bold.  Legally we are humans yes and there are laws etc, but we're also animals the same as the cow on your dinner plate.  Some people (I'm not saying you particularly) seem to find that hard to grasp.  I really can't understand how letting a 'vegetable' (for want of a better word) basically suffer is any nicer a way to go about things than ending it all for them.  Does a horse that breaks its legs get to have extremely expensive ways of keeping it going?  No they just go "hey ho, we'll have to get another one to race around on now" and shoot it right there.  Euthanasia is fine by me and I'd sign myself up to it if I could.  I don't wanna be a person who has to be spoon fed and can't get it together to go to the toilet.

It's up to the parents in the case of babies.  If they'd like to look after it no matter what I don't mind.  What a morbid conversation 

[anythinggoes]

Does a horse that breaks its legs get to have extremely expensive ways of keeping it going?  No they just go "hey ho, we'll have to get another one to race around on now" and shoot it right there.

which is also something i disagree with as well 

[Mr. Dick Purple]

This is just disturbing I dont agree at all, anyway is not even parents decission, they (doctors) have taken the choice of kill somebody else without consulting him/her if he/she wants to live or not.

[Annie]

I work in PICU in Chicago and we spend millions of dollars to keep all kinds of kids alive. I Have never heard of that happening in a US hospital. There would be major lawsuits! We only withdraw life support when a patient suffers irreversible brain damage or there is no hope of recovery. In the US we give kidsl ike that GTUBES to be fed, traches and ventilators to breathe. This can cost millions of dollars per kid!

[A Private Eye]

I find this very hard to believe, you can't just do things like that and get away with it if a baby dies like that post mortems are done and malnourishment etc would be discovered too many post mortem results like this on handicapped babies and there would be an enquiry. Besides if this was the case then no handicapped babies would survive beyond the first couple of weeks, yet most make it.

 If a child is found to be badly handicapped during scans during a pregnancy the parents are given the chance to have an abortion because it can save them years of heartache and is viewed as being kindest to the baby. I can only see this being true/possible if a baby is born and found to be badly handicapped and the doctors discuss the option off the record with the parents of allowing the baby to pass away for the same reasons as the abortion then perhaps. I cannot believe that half the doctors on baby wards are cold hearted murderers who allow babies to starve because they feel like it. 

[Walk]

Just out of curiosity, who here is pro-abortion? I have always been confused with people who are pro-abortion, yet anti-eugenics. It's hypocritical.

[Guns N RockMusic]

Just out of curiosity, who here is pro-abortion? I have always been confused with people who are pro-abortion, yet anti-eugenics. It's hypocritical.

Amen Walk.  How some people can't see the hypocrisy in not being responsible for a healthy, normal child but plain old out-raged at the idea of killing a mutant/abnormal child.  I guess there's some arbitrary value that's bestowed upon a child once it's seen light and taken its first breath.  However, seconds before then it would be alright to suck its brains out. 

[GunnerOne 84]

Just out of curiosity, who here is pro-abortion? I have always been confused with people who are pro-abortion, yet anti-eugenics. It's hypocritical.

Amen Walk.  How some people can't see the hypocrisy in not being responsible for a healthy, normal child but plain old out-raged at the idea of killing a mutant/abnormal child.  I guess there's some arbitrary value that's bestowed upon a child once it's seen light and taken its first breath.  However, seconds before then it would be alright to suck its brains out. 

Are you on Fing crack? Seconds before then? People can't have abortions that late in the US, it's illegal. In fact most abortions in the us are performed very early in the pregnancy, before any brainwaves start. Don't give me this BS, as it's a scientific fact, and i can go get my sources very quickly on this. I can understand not liking it, but let's not  compare it to murder.

[Guns N RockMusic]

Just out of curiosity, who here is pro-abortion? I have always been confused with people who are pro-abortion, yet anti-eugenics. It's hypocritical.

Amen Walk.? How some people can't see the hypocrisy in not being responsible for a healthy, normal child but plain old out-raged at the idea of killing a mutant/abnormal child.? I guess there's some arbitrary value that's bestowed upon a child once it's seen light and taken its first breath.? However, seconds before then it would be alright to suck its brains out.?

Are you on Fing crack? Seconds before then? People can't have abortions that late in the US, it's illegal. In fact most abortions in the us are performed very early in the pregnancy, before any brainwaves start. Don't give me this BS, as it's a scientific fact, and i can go get my sources very quickly on this. I can understand not liking it, but let's not? compare it to murder.

We're not just talking about the US are we?? In fact, we were talking about hospitals in Europe.? But my point remains the same.? Why is a 3 month old fetus not a human life?? Any answer you give me is arbitrary.? But let's say you go with the most rational response and say because a 3 month old fetus isn't a fully developed human being.? In that case, the same justification can be given to a severely deformed or retarded infant that is born.? That particular child shares about as much in common with the human race as a chimp, maybe even less so.? Ignoring the few comments from the wack jobs, most people find it humane to put down a dog, horse or other animal that is suffering and beyond help.? So if we as humans show enough compassion to put an "animal" out of its misery, why do we seclude ourselves from that kind of compassion?? It's a double standard that is based entirely on subjective, arbitrary beliefs and are entirely emotional and reactionary.? I love my dog enough to put him down if he was ever suffering and there was nothing I could do to stop it.? You bet your ass I'd hope someone would do the same to me.? I'm talking strictly about voluntary euthanasia.? I have a hard time believing that Doctors in Europe are euthanizing infants as standard practice.? That story would have broke along time ago and people would have put an end to it.

[Rex]

Just out of curiosity, who here is pro-abortion? I have always been confused with people who are pro-abortion, yet anti-eugenics. It's hypocritical.

Amen Walk.  How some people can't see the hypocrisy in not being responsible for a healthy, normal child but plain old out-raged at the idea of killing a mutant/abnormal child.  I guess there's some arbitrary value that's bestowed upon a child once it's seen light and taken its first breath.  However, seconds before then it would be alright to suck its brains out. 

Are you on Fing crack? Seconds before then? People can't have abortions that late in the US, it's illegal. In fact most abortions in the us are performed very early in the pregnancy, before any brainwaves start. Don't give me this BS, as it's a scientific fact, and i can go get my sources very quickly on this. I can understand not liking it, but let's not  compare it to murder.

We're not just talking about the US are we?  In fact, we were talking about hospitals in Europe.  But my point remains the same.  Why is a 3 month old fetus not a human life?  Any answer you give me is arbitrary.  But let's say you go with the most rational response and say because a 3 month old fetus isn't a fully developed human being.  In that case, the same justification can be given to a severely deformed or retarded infant that is born.  That particular child shares about as much in common with the human race as a chimp, maybe even less so.  Ignoring the few comments from the wack jobs, most people find it humane to put down a dog, horse or other animal that is suffering and beyond help.  So if we as humans show enough compassion to put an "animal" out of its misery, why do we seclude ourselves from that kind of compassion?  It's a double standard that is based entirely on subjective, arbitrary beliefs and are entirely emotional and reactionary.  I love my dog enough to put him down if he was ever suffering and there was nothing I could do to stop it.  You bet your ass I'd hope someone would do the same to me.  I'm talking strictly about voluntary euthanasia.  I have a hard time believing that Doctors in Europe are euthanizing infants as standard practice.  That story would have broke along time ago and people would have put an end to it.

I'll let George Carlin explain this to you: "Now, is a fetus a human being?  This seems to be the central question.  Well, if a fetus is a human being, how come the census doesn't count them?  If a fetus is a human being, how come when there's a miscarriage they don't have a funeral?  If a fetus is a human being, how come people say, 'We have two children and one's on the way,' instead of saying we have three children?"

[Guns N RockMusic]

Just out of curiosity, who here is pro-abortion? I have always been confused with people who are pro-abortion, yet anti-eugenics. It's hypocritical.

Amen Walk.? How some people can't see the hypocrisy in not being responsible for a healthy, normal child but plain old out-raged at the idea of killing a mutant/abnormal child.? I guess there's some arbitrary value that's bestowed upon a child once it's seen light and taken its first breath.? However, seconds before then it would be alright to suck its brains out.?

Are you on Fing crack? Seconds before then? People can't have abortions that late in the US, it's illegal. In fact most abortions in the us are performed very early in the pregnancy, before any brainwaves start. Don't give me this BS, as it's a scientific fact, and i can go get my sources very quickly on this. I can understand not liking it, but let's not? compare it to murder.

We're not just talking about the US are we?? In fact, we were talking about hospitals in Europe.? But my point remains the same.? Why is a 3 month old fetus not a human life?? Any answer you give me is arbitrary.? But let's say you go with the most rational response and say because a 3 month old fetus isn't a fully developed human being.? In that case, the same justification can be given to a severely deformed or retarded infant that is born.? That particular child shares about as much in common with the human race as a chimp, maybe even less so.? Ignoring the few comments from the wack jobs, most people find it humane to put down a dog, horse or other animal that is suffering and beyond help.? So if we as humans show enough compassion to put an "animal" out of its misery, why do we seclude ourselves from that kind of compassion?? It's a double standard that is based entirely on subjective, arbitrary beliefs and are entirely emotional and reactionary.? I love my dog enough to put him down if he was ever suffering and there was nothing I could do to stop it.? You bet your ass I'd hope someone would do the same to me.? I'm talking strictly about voluntary euthanasia.? I have a hard time believing that Doctors in Europe are euthanizing infants as standard practice.? That story would have broke along time ago and people would have put an end to it.

I'll let George Carlin explain this to you: "Now, is a fetus a human being?? This seems to be the central question.? Well, if a fetus is a human being, how come the census doesn't count them?? If a fetus is a human being, how come when there's a miscarriage they don't have a funeral?? If a fetus is a human being, how come people say, 'We have two children and one's on the way,' instead of saying we have three children?"

How come if I someone murders a pregnant woman, they're charged with two counts of murder?  George Carlin went off the deep end a long time ago.  He's not even funnny anymore, he just stands there and makes social commentary.   But hey, anything you need to say in order to get through your day and rationalize bullshit and hypocritical ideas.

[Olorin]

Years ago, when i was at drama school, this girl in my class told us her sister worked in a british hospital in the maternity ward.

Apparently, when babies were physically or/and mentally severely handicaped, they would stop feeding them and it would take up to a week for them to die, of starvation.

I didn't want to believe it.

But my mother has started to work in a hospital in Bristol ( GB) in the kid's cardiac ward.

She said the same thing.

My mother is very upset.

So am i...

So like, what you do is post about it on a Guns N' Roses forum?

If you really are that upset about it why don't you take some action that could prevent this from happening now, and in the future.
Speak to authorities, go to to the tabloids or do something instead posting futile comments in a GN'R forum.

Go to the tabloids, they love getting the opportunity to gloat in the revelation of some "scandal".

At least you, or your mother could give the filthy scumbags some information that isn't about shaming some arsehole "celebrity" or politcian,? and would lead to the nation being alerted to crimes against they're children!!

Fuck sake!!