Libanon - Israel - Iran - Syria - 3rd world war (no politics, promise!)

[Mal Brossard]

Looks like some people have gone off their meds.

Is this directed toward me or someone else?

[SLCPUNK]

Looks like some people have gone off their meds.

Is this directed toward me or someone else?

It can't be me, my doctor only uses shock treatment.........

[The Dog]

Alright, I'll weigh in on this.

Let me first say this: I am by no means an anti-Semite.  I am only anti-Zionism.

That being said, I sympathize with Palestine-- they were essentially pushed off their land by England in 1948 so the Jews could move in-- the ultimate culmination of the Zionist movement of 1880-1950.  How would you feel if you were essentially pushed off your land and told "Hey, move over so your biggest enemy of the last 2000 years can move in on this land"?  Then when you try to fight back, you get annhilated by a superior military backed by the major powers of the world and get restricted even further.

The only reason Israel exists is because of excessive guilt felt by most of the world for treating Jews as a separate race, eventually allowing them to be condemned under Hitler in the Holocaust. (By the way, the comment was made that Iran's leader denies the Holocaust happened.  I suggest you look into this further.  There is almost NO ONE who denies there was excessive persecution, imprisonment, and killing of Jews in Nazi Germany.  What is consistantly called "Holocaust denial" is really "Holocaust revisionism."  All that has been questioned on any basis is how many were killed, how they died, and why.  No one that I can find will refute the fact that the Holocaust happened, just to what extent.)

However, the Arab nations have gone on about this all wrong, as has really everyone involved.  The reason Arab countries have to resort to terror is because it's all they know.  When you have nothing to use to fight, you have to rely on anything you can get your hands on.  If that means guerilla warfare or even solo warfare (terrorism), so be it.

Since June 28, Israel has re-occupied Gaza, cut off their electricity and water, bombed an Islamic University, may have used biological or chemical weapons in Gaza, bombed the Beirut airport, bombed the Beirut-Damascus highway, bombed the bridges over the Awali and Litani rivers, bombed all over the Israel-Lebanon border, bombed Baalbek, sets up a blockade against Lebanon, and sank a Cambodian ship in Lebanese waters.  All Lebanon has done is see Hezbollah kidnap an Israeli troop or two, bomb Haifa (after being attacked), and bomb an Israeli warship.

On April 4, 2003, a European Union (EU) poll named Israel as the ?greatest threat to world peace.?  The American media wants to portray this as the innocent victim (Israel) defending itself against evildoers, while nearly turning a blind eye to any injustices by Israel that have led to retaliation.  On June 27, 2006, the Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF) proved the EU right by reoccupying Gaza, savagely terrorizing the civilian population, blowing up their electric/water generating facilities, conducting a mass arrest of their elected officials, and also, without just cause, provoking the Syrians. In response to the repeated shelling by the IOF of Gaza, Israel?s Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, wisecracked, ?Nobody dies from being uncomfortable!? When he addressed a Joint Session of the U.S. Congress, on May 24, 2006, Olmert received 38 breaks of applause and 18 standing ovations from that entity of mostly lapdogs. This is also the same Israeli leader, who, paraphrasing George Orwell's ?Animal Farm,? said that he had a ?deep regret? about the effects of some IOF?s operations which had killed 14 innocent Palestinians in just nine days, but that the lives of Israeli citizens were ?even more important.?

What would have happened if Israel hadn't been created?

* 1. The U.S. would not have any enemies in the Islamic World because we would have no Israel to support and be despised by the neighboring Arab countries
* 2. There would be no Al-Qaeda Terrorist Network as they would not have an enemy like Israel and its allies.
* 3. There would be no 9/11 attacks.
* 4. There would be no USA Patriot Law.
* 5. There would be no Homeland Security Agency.

Not necessarily, what pissed bin laden off was when we were given the right to use Saudi Arabia as a base of operations in the first gulf war.  Bin Laden considered this an insult and thought the US's presence tainted his holy land.  With or without Israel, there would still be oil in the region and we would still have a vested interest in the land and would still be getting involved I'm sure.  Don't blame 9-11 on Israel, blame it on the fanatics who flew the planes.

I also wouldn't blame the Israeli people for Britain handing the land over to them.  If the Palestinians should be pissed at anyone, it should be for Britain for displacing them in the first place.

I respect your opinion, but your logic is flawed.  You are saying Israel's existance gave birth to the terror groups?  Nobody forced them to strap bombs on themselves and kill innocent civilians....there were plenty of peaceful things they could have done to get their land back or at least make concessions.  Instead, they chose violence. 

[Surfrider]

Alright, I'll weigh in on this.

Let me first say this: I am by no means an anti-Semite.? I am only anti-Zionism.

That being said, I sympathize with Palestine-- they were essentially pushed off their land by England in 1948 so the Jews could move in-- the ultimate culmination of the Zionist movement of 1880-1950.? How would you feel if you were essentially pushed off your land and told "Hey, move over so your biggest enemy of the last 2000 years can move in on this land"?? Then when you try to fight back, you get annhilated by a superior military backed by the major powers of the world and get restricted even further.

The only reason Israel exists is because of excessive guilt felt by most of the world for treating Jews as a separate race, eventually allowing them to be condemned under Hitler in the Holocaust. (By the way, the comment was made that Iran's leader denies the Holocaust happened.? I suggest you look into this further.? There is almost NO ONE who denies there was excessive persecution, imprisonment, and killing of Jews in Nazi Germany.? What is consistantly called "Holocaust denial" is really "Holocaust revisionism."? All that has been questioned on any basis is how many were killed, how they died, and why.? No one that I can find will refute the fact that the Holocaust happened, just to what extent.)

However, the Arab nations have gone on about this all wrong, as has really everyone involved.? The reason Arab countries have to resort to terror is because it's all they know.? When you have nothing to use to fight, you have to rely on anything you can get your hands on.? If that means guerilla warfare or even solo warfare (terrorism), so be it.

Since June 28, Israel has re-occupied Gaza, cut off their electricity and water, bombed an Islamic University, may have used biological or chemical weapons in Gaza, bombed the Beirut airport, bombed the Beirut-Damascus highway, bombed the bridges over the Awali and Litani rivers, bombed all over the Israel-Lebanon border, bombed Baalbek, sets up a blockade against Lebanon, and sank a Cambodian ship in Lebanese waters.? All Lebanon has done is see Hezbollah kidnap an Israeli troop or two, bomb Haifa (after being attacked), and bomb an Israeli warship.

On April 4, 2003, a European Union (EU) poll named Israel as the ?greatest threat to world peace.?? The American media wants to portray this as the innocent victim (Israel) defending itself against evildoers, while nearly turning a blind eye to any injustices by Israel that have led to retaliation.? On June 27, 2006, the Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF) proved the EU right by reoccupying Gaza, savagely terrorizing the civilian population, blowing up their electric/water generating facilities, conducting a mass arrest of their elected officials, and also, without just cause, provoking the Syrians. In response to the repeated shelling by the IOF of Gaza, Israel?s Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, wisecracked, ?Nobody dies from being uncomfortable!? When he addressed a Joint Session of the U.S. Congress, on May 24, 2006, Olmert received 38 breaks of applause and 18 standing ovations from that entity of mostly lapdogs. This is also the same Israeli leader, who, paraphrasing George Orwell's ?Animal Farm,? said that he had a ?deep regret? about the effects of some IOF?s operations which had killed 14 innocent Palestinians in just nine days, but that the lives of Israeli citizens were ?even more important.?

What would have happened if Israel hadn't been created?

* 1. The U.S. would not have any enemies in the Islamic World because we would have no Israel to support and be despised by the neighboring Arab countries
* 2. There would be no Al-Qaeda Terrorist Network as they would not have an enemy like Israel and its allies.
* 3. There would be no 9/11 attacks.
* 4. There would be no USA Patriot Law.
* 5. There would be no Homeland Security Agency.
* 6. The Israeli Lobby?s "unmatched power" over U.S. foreign policy, for over four decades, would not had existed (its support for the Iraqi War was deemed by experts to be "critical").
* 7. There would also not have been any Neocon ideologues; like Paul Wolfowitz, William Kristol, Richard Perle, et al, to help, (along with other "Special Interests"), to push the U.S. into a quasi-legal war with Iraq.
* 8. Iran would not be the next target for U.S. aggression. (No Israel means no "A Clean Break" document, meaning no Israeli Lobby, which means no Neocons, and therefore no need for the U.S. to attack Iran.)
* 9. Jonathan Pollard, wouldn?t be in prison for stealing U.S. military secrets and hawking them to Israel.
* 10. The three million-plus Palestinians, who were forcefully dispersed from their homeland, since 1948, by the IOF, would, instead, be living happily there today, in a free and independent state of Palestine. There would be no Apartheid Wall, or as a corollary, no Hamas organization.
* 11. Jerusalem would have a vibrant Christian population.
* 12. The 2,544 Americans who have died in Iraq would be alive; and the 18,777, who have been seriously wounded there, would be fully participating in our Republic. U.S. taxpayers would have an additional $295 billion, (the cost of the war), in the treasury to use to serve the social needs of the people. Universal Health Care would be a real possibility and Social Security would not be in jeopardy. Iraq would be at peace. There would be no Gitmo Bay detention center, or an Abu Ghraib Prison, or a reason for the Bush-Cheney Gang to gut Habeas Corpus. No need for it to also employ torturers, or chemical weapons, or hold detainees without charges or trial. The Geneva Convention would be respected. The tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis, who have died as a result of the war, would instead be alive today.
* 13. The battle to save our planet, its fragile ecosystem, its fast vanishing animal life and plants and to combat global warming, would be issue#1. Instead, we are perpetually bombarded with propaganda about defending ?Israel?s security.?
* 14. If there was no Israel, then the "five dancing Israelis" on 9/11 wouldn?t have been arrested. They were nailed after ?celebrating? in NJ, while watching the Twin Towers collapsed.
* 15. U.S. taxpayers would be $140 billion richer! This is the staggering amount they have shelled out over the last 58 years to support the interests of the Zionists.
* 16. On June 13, 2006, the IOF killed ten Palestinians, including three medical workers and two children, in the Gaza Strip. The Palestinian President, Mahmoud Abbas, labeled the missile attack an example of "state terrorism." Only God knows how many Palestinians the Israelis have actually wasted since 1948; or exactly how many refugees it has created, or how many homes, a la Oliver Cromwell, the IOF have demolished. None of this would have been possible without the country of Israel.
* 17. One of the reasons the Warren Commission failed to properly investigate the murder of JFK was because of Arlen Specter (R-PA). He was then a "Special Counsel" to the Commission. He concocted the preposterous ?Magic Bullet? theory, which shut down any real conspiracy-type probe. It is also interesting to note, that Jacob Rubenstein, AKA, "Jack Ruby," Lee Harvey Oswald?s murderer, had close ties to Meyer Lansky?s National Crime Syndicate. I believe the answer to who really plotted JFK?s killing, died with Oswald. In any event after JFK?s death, Israel?s nuclear weapons program, which Kennedy had opposed, went ahead. U.S. aid to Israel also increased dramatically.
* 18. There would have been no reason for a French Ambassador to refer to Israel as "that shitty little country."? In fact, the Jews of the world would have been liberated to fulfill their deepest spiritual quest, as embodied in their religion - Judaism. According to the highly respected Orthodox Rabbi, Dovid Yisroel Weiss, "Zionism has hijacked Judaism." The Rabbi insists that, "Zionism creates anti-Semitism.? And we know, Zionism is the root cause for the pain, suffering, and bloodshed of the Jewish people, and, [the Zionists] are the greatest factory of anti-Semitism worldwide.? Judaism and Zionism are not one and the same. They are diametrically opposite.? We should not mistake one for the other.? And, we shouldn?t be responsible for the actions of what the Zionists do.? Now, another of the problems that emanate actually from the Zionist Movement is the fact that they are encroaching upon the rights of the Palestinian people, the indigenous people, who are living there. And, this is terribly wrong. It is against every concept of the Torah.? So, whatever they are doing is totally wrong!"
* 19. Thousands of Israelis have died attempting to build a nation in a land, Palestine, which belonged to another people, the Palestinians. Their deaths would have been avoided.
* 20. The widespread spying on Americans, without a court order, by operatives of the Bush-Cheney Gang, would have never happened. (No Israel. No 9/11. No spying on U.S. citizens.)

Like I said, I have no problem with Judaism.? I have no problem with people who identify themselves as Jewish.? The problem stems from the Zionists and the creation of Israel.? And I do realize Israel isn't going anywhere-- I can certainly accept that.? But that doesn't mean that every side involved has to keep making the same mistakes over and over again.? Unfortunately, it all has gone too far and we are now standing on the verge of armageddon.

Perhaps the Mayan calendar is right.

Aren't you the same guy that said the United States inflicted 911 upon itself?

[Guns N RockMusic]

And for a so called libertarian to be advocating social programs such as nationalized medicine leaves me wondering just how confused he might be.

[SLCPUNK]

And for a so called libertarian to be advocating social programs such as nationalized medicine leaves me wondering just how confused he might be.

See now both of you have started with personal attacks instead of substance...........

Did you really have to go there?

[Guns N RockMusic]

It's not personal at all.  I see his argument as a regressive argument which is a flawed argument as best proven by the great philosopher Thomas Aquinas.  It's a continuing problem I see; people debating the past and playing monday night quarterback.  The issue at hand it complex and involved, but only one side's position is the eradication of the other.  Israel wasn't "created" in 1948.  It's existed in some form as far as recorded history goes.  Judaism didn't sprout up in Europe you know.  In fact, Judaism predates Islam by a few thousand years and before formal borders were even really established and recognized.  Jews have just as much a right to that land as the Palestinians; both have a historic and religious interest in the region. 
   To all those who argue that violence and war have never established anything, have you completely forgotten WWII?  How about every other border establishment or claim and rise to power.  Rome didn't conquer the known world through negotiations over tea.  China didn't unite over a candlelit dinner.  War is a horrendous thing and in today's "civilized" age should be used as a last resort.  But if the 20th century has taught us anything it's that appeasement is a fools game the only results in greater death and carnange, but should the appropriate steps been taken sooner it could/is greatly reduced.  Iran is working on nuclear weapons, anyone who argues otherwise is a fool.  Iran has ties with the same terrorist organizations that run rampant in Lebanon, Syria and the Palestine to name a few.  Those nations interested in the longevity of their survival are obligated to neutralize the threat before it becomes reality.  The Arab world by and large wants Israel off the map and for the life of me I can't see how some of you expect Israel to negotiate peace and treaties with a culture/region that wishes their destruction.  If Israel gave half of their country to the Palestinians/Jordanians/whomever, the violence would still rage on because it would never be enough.  To those fanatics it will never be enough until the rest of the world praises Allah and accepts their warped/ass backwards views on society and the world.  If you think born again Christians are loony and living in the past, you should really begin to examine the beliefs and practices of the majority of the Islam world.  If you're looking for human rights and peace you couldn't be further off target.

[Guns N RockMusic]

Blair, Annan call for troops in Israel By MARTIN CRUTSINGER, AP Economics Writer
 32 minutes ago
 


British Prime Minister Tony Blair and U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan called Monday for the deployment of international forces to stop the bombardment of Israel.

"The blunt reality is that this violence is not going to stop unless we create the conditions for the cessation of violence," Blair said after talks with Annan on the margins of the Group of Eight summit. "The only way is if we have a deployment of international forces that can stop bombardment coming into Israel."

Annan appealed to Israel to abide by international law, spare civilian lives and infrastructure.

He also said that the United Nations was considering evacuation plans for U.N. dependents from Lebanon, while Blair said Britain was looking at the possibility of creating an air bridge for its citizens.

Their comments came a day after world leaders forged a unified response at their G-8 summit to the crisis in the Middle East, blaming Hezbollah and Hamas for the escalating violence and recognizing Israel's right to defend itself ? although they called on the Jewish state to show restraint.

"We cobbled together a very important statement," President Bush told reporters on Monday.

"I am most pleased the leaders came to say that we condemn violence. We honor innocent life," Bush said before heading into a meeting with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. "For the first time, we've really begun to address with clarity the root causes of the conflict ... and that is terrorist acts."

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

Blair, Annan call for troops in Israel By MARTIN CRUTSINGER, AP Economics Writer
 32 minutes ago

finally.

as for your previous post. what can i say.
It lacks hope and respect. It lacks understanding.
and as usual it's 100% oriented. see we might be defending palestine and lebanon, but we are aware of the atrocities and the problem of HZB and terrorism.
on the other hand, israel protector lack to find any flaw in their loved country.


Israel deserve its land. alright. i guess americans need to move now and give the land back to the indians, i mean naive, native american.

[jameslofton29]

This isn't some game. The only way to get rid of terrorism is to destroy it. Not buy it off with weapons, money, drugs, land,etc. This shit is pure evil, and you don't pamper it. The decades of pampering is why its so out of control now. These groups aren't interested in peaceful co-existence. They wish for the annihilation of democracy, freedom, civilization,etc. I don't know about you guys, but I'm not interested in going back to the Dark Ages, and hopefully the leaders of the civilized world aren't either.

These groups have to be destroyed and wiped off the map. If that requires a few innocents getting killed, then so be it. Let the bombs drop. Countries like the US, Russia, UK, France, Germany,etc. need to form an alliance and kill off this cancer once and for all. To not take such drastic measures would in essence be admitting defeat.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

so,

HZB is indeed present in Lebanon.
The population was not on the HZB side.
Some were, as it was democratically placed in the parlments.

The HZB has, indeed, attacked Israel, but you cannot talk about provocation here, as the issue between these 2 forces go back long.
Israel cannot pretend to be provoked or attacked, cause you can always go back to something prior.

Anyway, Israel chose to attack. That's their choice.

Objective : destroy the HZB.
Mean : bomb airport, harbor, roads, city
Chance of success: 0%

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

If that requires a few innocents getting killed, then so be it. Let the bombs drop.

hey, not to be mean, but your parents are calling, they say they forgot to educate you
and they're sorry for all the slapping while you were young, turned out it didnt help

no really. read what you wrote. makes to sense.

killing terrorism by bombing cities ? ahahhaha. ahahhaha . that was funny.

[jameslofton29]

If that requires a few innocents getting killed, then so be it. Let the bombs drop.

hey, not to be mean, but your parents are calling, they say they forgot to educate you
and they're sorry for all the slapping while you were young, turned out it didnt help

no really. read what you wrote. makes to sense.

killing terrorism by bombing cities ? ahahhaha. ahahhaha . that was funny.

Would you rather pamper them and give them everything they want? They like to speak with violence, so it must be given to them in very large doses. Once they get tastes of their own medicine, they always run like cowards. Now they have to be killed when they run. There is no pretty solution to this mess.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

If that requires a few innocents getting killed, then so be it. Let the bombs drop.

hey, not to be mean, but your parents are calling, they say they forgot to educate you
and they're sorry for all the slapping while you were young, turned out it didnt help

no really. read what you wrote. makes to sense.

killing terrorism by bombing cities ? ahahhaha. ahahhaha . that was funny.

Would you rather pamper them and give them everything they want? They like to speak with violence, so it must be given to them in very large doses. Once they get tastes of their own medicine, they always run like cowards. Now they have to be killed when they run. There is no pretty solution to this mess.

are you a religious man ?

[AxlsMainMan]

I was just talking to my old man about this situation over breakfast this morning...

Personally, If I had my way, Id just have a huge wall seperate us in North America entirely from the Middle East.

The whole thing with Israel has been goin' on since the end of WW2, and it got fuckin' ridiculous a few decades ago.

As James said, terrorism is like a cancer that needs to be killed, and I have no side on this matter.

Israel will bomb the living hell out of Lebanon, but guess what Lebanon will do in retaliation...

[jameslofton29]

are you a religious man ?

What does that have to do with it? Oh yeah, I forgot. This is a holy war.

[AxlsMainMan]

are you a religious man ?

What does that have to do with it? Oh yeah, I forgot. This is a holy war.

 

Now that was priceless...

If anything this "holy war" should teach people, and in particular the youth of today, that religion is perhaps best practiced in you're own home..free of judgement and violent retaliation..

[Danny Top Hat]

Amen!

You're doing well kids, keep it up.

[Markus Asraelius]

I don't usually get into talking about Middle East Conflicts but I just want to say that it's sad that we can't find peace in today's world.

[AxlsMainMan]

I don't usually get into talking about Middle East Conflicts but I just want to say that it's sad that we can't find peace in today's world.

I was just thinking about that.

Even just a decade ago, you really didn't hear about nearly as much global conflict as we have today.

Life is really to short isn't it?