A Reason for no CITR?

[ROSE22]

The song uses lines from Salinger's book. Those who know about Salinger know about his absolute refusal to allow permission for anything related to the book to be used. While the actual title of the book might be able to be used, there is no way this song can be released without the approval of Salinger.

Could this be one of the reasons for CD's delay? As we know, its a powerful song, and a polished version will be absolutely amazing. Maybe Axl had hopes for the song to be on CD, but then dropped the idea and is saving it for later. When Axl first went to NY, wasn't there a rumour he was trying to secure rights to the Madagascar quotes? If so, its safe to assume he was also trying to get permission for CITR. Now that it has pretty much been ruled out for CD, he must not have got permission. Unfortunately, this song may never see the light of day.

very interesting james. i to am a fan of this song and whatever is going on behind the scenes....i hope it all gets worked out so we can add this to the album and the north american tour. if for whatever reason it does not get worked out, i hope we can get some answers about this issue as well as numerous others.........by the way, good post and great to read your shit.   

[Mal Brossard]

For those saying it was set to be the third single, I could have sworn Axl had said to a female fan backstage after the December 2002 MSG show that CITR would be on the third ALBUM, not the third SINGLE.  If I could find that interview/story/whatever I would post it, but don't know where I can find it.

Anyone?

[kyrie]

There is no copyright holding up Catcher as fair use allows Axl to create a derivitive work from the existing story. Look up a court case regarding "The Wind Done Gone" (take-off on Gone with the Wind). Not only that, there is very little reference to the book in the song aside from the title and that one line someone else already posted - not enough to bring about a copyright suit.

The reason it's not being played is likely because Brian May isn't around to play it and his parts are remaining. If I recall, it was printed on the setlist for one of the Hammersmith shows but later dropped.

I'm willing to bet it's on the album.

[ROSE22]

There is no copyright holding up Catcher as fair use allows Axl to create a derivitive work from the existing story. Look up a court case regarding "The Wind Done Gone" (take-off on Gone with the Wind). Not only that, there is very little reference to the book in the song aside from the title and that one line someone else already posted - not enough to bring about a copyright suit.

The reason it's not being played is likely because Brian May isn't around to play it and his parts are remaining. If I recall, it was printed on the setlist for one of the Hammersmith shows but later dropped.

I'm willing to bet it's on the album.

i sure hope so

[DunkinDave]

The song uses lines from Salinger's book.

Such as?

[AxlRose4eva1]

There is substance to this, although I dont htink its true.  Field Of Dreams comes from the Book Shoeless JOe Jackson, in the book J.D. Salinger is the writer who is played int he movie by James Earl Jones.  Salinger threatened suit if his character was portrayed in that movie so Costner and them decided to change a name and choose an actor as far away from Sallinger as possible.

Salinger is reclusive, but not crazy.  Based on my knowledge he doesnt mind so much people writing about him or his works, its when they do so for mindless profit that he gets upset.  He used to grant interviews to highschool students years ago, but when they started getting published in papers he stopped.  I dont think a song referencing his book would make him upset, nor do i think he has heard of the song, nor do i think even if he had and he cared could he do anything to stop it.  Not too mention Axl apparently plans to have 3 cd's come out, so if it was tied up in litigation then he could always bump it to the 2nd cd.  Also the song has been written and recorded on demo for years, they woulda came to some agreement by now if this really was "holding" up the record.

[themovieaddict.com]

Unlikely I say. I doubt Salinger has any clue of what goes on in the world. Hes like the biggest recluse ever. Plus he hasnt shown himself to be litigious in the past ... has he?

Salinger has sued over matters relating to his name and writing over the years. I think he even sued to stop the release of his daughter's memoirs about him, which did nothing - the book came out anyway.

IMO the reason it hasn't been played is because the first three leaks were deliberate and CITR was not. CITR is from the Trunk tape. The reason the quality is shitty is because somebody didn't do a direct rip, it was recorded through another source. I think Axl planned on leaking IRS, TWAT and Better to help hype the tour and to give him something new to play. It isn't just coincidence that he mentioned Better, TWAT and The Blues in RS - the only three titles mentioned as his favorites - and, lo and behold! A few weeks after the interview (or was it days?) they are both online, along with IRS, which we had already heard - it was basically a throwaway, they knew people had heard it anyway.

CITR was not planned and that's why right after it was leaked management began participating undercover on the forums (mainly here and MyGNR) looking for the leaker. They found him and that's why nothing else has been leaked.

[Bevo_Francis]

I'm pretty sure the line "the young folks" is a Salinger reference as well although not from CITR.

[Bevo_Francis]

I'm pretty sure the line "the young folks" is a Salinger reference as well although not from CITR.

[Mr.Intensity]

I'm pretty sure the line "the young folks" is a Salinger reference as well although not from CITR.

[kyrie]

I'm pretty sure the line "the young folks" is a Salinger reference as well although not from CITR.

That, however, is a common phrase and not something copyrightable even with America's fucked up copyright system.

[axlsalinger]

I could have sworn Axl had said to a female fan backstage after the December 2002 MSG show that CITR would be on the third ALBUM, not the third SINGLE.

Yeah, this is what I was referring to. I am pretty sure this was said to someone after the MSG show, but whether it is true or not is still up in the air.

[KeVoRkIaN]

Perhaps the reason is that Ron Thal never rehearsed it yet

[whiny]

yeah, but that doesn't answer anything; the question is why ron thal and the band didn't rehears it...

[faldor]

I think there are a couple reasons for now CITR yet.  Most notably, I think Axl is keeping the new songs to a minimum.  He gave us 5 new songs back in 2001/02.  He's given us 3 new songs so far this year but TWAT hasn't been played much.  IRS and Better have been played at most of the shows.  Despite the fact that everyone on this board has heard all 4 of the leaked songs they still remain obscure to the masses.  I tell everyone I know about them but only a handful of people have bothered to take a listen.  The non-hardcore fans are just not gonna take the time to find the songs, never mind listen to them.  And I'd estimate about 75% of the people at each show haven't heard any of the new songs going into the show.  So TWAT and CITR still remain unknown by the masses. 

And of course since Brian May plays lead on CITR I'm sure they'd like to debut that song with him playing along.  He was supposed to join them for one show already but didn't have time to rehearse.  I wouldn't be surprised if he hooked up with them next time around the UK and we finally hear the song live.  At least I hope. 

[codenameninja]

A Reason for no CITR?

er, becuase the song is no good  ok so that was slighyl harsh, but, this is one song i would be happy not to see on CD, well atleast not on CD disc 1. CITR sounds like CD disc 3 material.

I bet they leaked Better, TWAT, CITR to get a reaction and decided which of the 3 to put onto CD disc 1, as the disc is filled and they could not have all 3 

[sic.]

This is something from last years, before the leaks. Take it for what it is, Dizzy's credibility has already been discussed to death here.

"- The epic track ?Catcher in the Rye? will be on Chinese Democracy and is written by Axl based upon the book of the same name and will have a different sound from UYI epics."  -  8th Oct, '05

[ShotgunBlues1978]

There's nothing in the song that they'd be able to prevent Axl from releasing it, besides perhaps the title itself.  They could change the title and no issue.  The song is mostly about Mark David Chapman, and while it does incorporate some themes from the book it doesn't quote the book directly from what I can remember.  You can't prevent someone from using the title of your book in song lyrics, copyright isn't that strong.  The title of the song itself may be an issue, but if they just changed the title there's nothing within the song itself that couldn't be used

[oldgunsfan]

A Reason for no CITR?

er, becuase the song is no good? ok so that was slighyl harsh, but, this is one song i would be happy not to see on CD, well atleast not on CD disc 1. CITR sounds like CD disc 3 material.

I bet they leaked Better, TWAT, CITR to get a reaction and decided which of the 3 to put onto CD disc 1, as the disc is filled and they could not have all 3?

yeah, that song was the weakest of the leaked tracks
i was glad they didn't play it

[LaTeRaLuS]

catcher has amazing potential, however, ive listend to it a lot and just cant get into it