A Reason for no CITR?

[Tomorrows]

Unlikely I say. I doubt Salinger has any clue of what goes on in the world. Hes like the biggest recluse ever. Plus he hasnt shown himself to be litigious in the past ... has he?

He has stated he will never allow CITR to be used for anything, but I think he is referring to a movie based on the book, although I am sure a song using parts of the book would fall into that category. But apparently I was wrong in thinking there are any direct quotes from the book, although CITR definitely paraphrases lines from the book. That in and of itself might cause some problems. Not sure though. I am definitely going to read the book again. Anyone here read it recently?

The song isnt using the book as such (aside from the title). IMO its only tie to the book is that its making a highly allusive parallel between Holden and the dude who shot Lennon. GnR could scrap the title and any potential lawsuit would disappear.

Quotes from the book? Not that I remember.

Edit: This thread is totally moot anyway. The only thing we have ever heard from Axl about CITR is that Brian May's parts might not be only the final cut.

Not only is this speculation, but its speculation about something that hasnt even happened. Whats the point?

[jameslofton29]

The point was to try and start a thread that might create some interesting discussion. But since I am wrong, lets go back to the repetitive noob dipshit threads.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

they are playing some of the new songs because
- it woud mood down the crowd as they don't know them
- when songs are too long and calm (CITR, TWAT ...) it's risky with the basic audience
- axl and the band just don't want to spoil us with new songs before cd's out

and that comes out of the mouth of band members and such.

[jimmythegent]

I agree, it absolutley needs to be on CD - not future release (if they happen) but on his first CD. All his best songs must be there, and if theres room for the plodding Madagascar, then Catcher must be there - its a gem

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

I agree, it absolutley needs to be on CD - not future release (if they happen) but on his first CD. All his best songs must be there, and if theres room for the plodding Madagascar, then Catcher must be there - its a gem

madagascar is the best song evah !

[badapple81]

When they asked if the song will be on the album on Trunk he seemed very sketchey about it.. he was like ahhh.. ahh we haven't decided yet.. so that makes me think it won't be making the cut and might be why they aren't bothering with it anymore. Just a thought.

[sic.]

The song isnt using the book as such (aside from the title). IMO its only tie to the book is that its making a highly allusive parallel between Holden and the dude who shot Lennon. GnR could scrap the title and any potential lawsuit would disappear.

I was under the impression that book titles and such, as intellectual properties, are basically free, meaning that GNR might have a song named after a book with no problem. Note that they also alledgedly have the Ayn Rand novel Atlas Shrugged as a title.

[AxlsMainMan]

I agree, it absolutley needs to be on CD - not future release (if they happen) but on his first CD. All his best songs must be there, and if theres room for the plodding Madagascar, then Catcher must be there - its a gem

That's where Axl has to be careful though...

It goes without saying that the first album has to loaded with Gems, and Big Guns, but I think it would be in Axl's best interest to evenly distribute the gems over the 3 albums so that one album isn't lacking, or one album isn't stealing all the thunder from the other two.

In the Trunk interview, Axl said they were shuffling songs between the albums, so that is essentially the most time consuming task awaiting closure, and then the album(s) will be off for the mastering process...

[Neemo]

The song uses lines from Salinger's book. Those who know about Salinger know about his absolute refusal to allow permission for anything related to the book to be used. While the actual title of the book might be able to be used, there is no way this song can be released without the approval of Salinger.

Could this be one of the reasons for CD's delay? As we know, its a powerful song, and a polished version will be absolutely amazing. Maybe Axl had hopes for the song to be on CD, but then dropped the idea and is saving it for later. When Axl first went to NY, wasn't there a rumour he was trying to secure rights to the Madagascar quotes? If so, its safe to assume he was also trying to get permission for CITR. Now that it has pretty much been ruled out for CD, he must not have got permission. Unfortunately, this song may never see the light of day.

possibly james...i just read an interview that Axl says there will be a tribute to lennon on the album...i think it was the 99 RS interview...so quite possible for one of the delays is permission for the title of the song...not the whole reason though i don't think...or maybe conflict with the up coming movie about the same theme

[25]

The song uses lines from Salinger's book. Those who know about Salinger know about his absolute refusal to allow permission for anything related to the book to be used. While the actual title of the book might be able to be used, there is no way this song can be released without the approval of Salinger.

They don't need copyright approval to use a few lines from the book in a song. Small quotations are allowed under the "fair use" clause. It could be that the record company insists on a formal agreement to use the quotes so that they're not dragged into a frivolous lawsuit though, so that could be a stumbling block. Book titles aren't copyrightable anyway, so that part isn't a problem.

The quotes in Madagascar are a different story since they're using snippets of other people's recordings, which are a seperate copyright issue and usually have to be "cleared" for use for any commercial purpose. 

[whiny]

please stop the copyright disussion... this is hardly the reason for citr not being played...

[Athena]

I have a completely different theory on that one. I thought they were saving the song to be played with Brain May on stage. Remember he was going to play in London but then decided not to cause he didn't have enough time to rehearse and Brian didn't want to fuck it up?

[deanaxlrose]

THEY JUST SAVE THE BEST FOR LAST.

[whiny]

I have a completely different theory on that one. I thought they were saving the song to be played with Brain May on stage. Remember he was going to play in London but then decided not to cause he didn't have enough time to rehearse and Brian didn't want to fuck it up?

think this theory is not so "strong", for tommy said that citr will definitely not be played during this leg of the tour...

[liesin]

Santa Carla has a song called "the catcher in the rye".

The Ataris' uses the line: "Don't ever tell anyone anything or else you'll wind up missing everybody".  That is fucking close to the original : Don't ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody." And these songs are out there.

Billy Idol also refers to "The catcher in the rye" in his song "We didn't start the fire".

Since Axl doesn't use any exact qoutes there's no way that he's not allowed to publish CITR. There's a lot of other songs alluding to Salingers novel in a much more exact way. I think that your toughts of CITR not being played are wrong, allthough It's a really interesting topic.

Like so many other have said, you don't want to waste all good songs!

[LaTeRaLuS]

I have a completely different theory on that one. I thought they were saving the song to be played with Brain May on stage. Remember he was going to play in London but then decided not to cause he didn't have enough time to rehearse and Brian didn't want to fuck it up?

think this theory is not so "strong", for tommy said that citr will definitely not be played during this leg of the tour...

when did he say that?

[whiny]

when he signed my citr book along with dizzy and robin...

[LaTeRaLuS]

when he signed my citr book along with dizzy and robin...

kool!

[chinesedemocracy05]

It would truly be a let down if CITR isn't on CD, but we'll always have the studio-quality leak which will be enough for me.

I agree. I want a finished version of this song more than any other. It is truly a masterpiece. If Salinger doesn't give permission, it would be a crime. Axl isn't trashing the legacy of CITR, so I see no logical reason for Salinger to deny permission. Hopefully, he at least heard the song before making his decision.

I agree it would be a crime if CITR was not allowed to be released. The thing is, what's wrong with the name Catcher in the rye and the sentences in the song? Does Sallinger have the name Catcher in the rye Copyrighted. I think it would be strange, but I guess if Axl is copying Sallinger's words I guess its plagarism, even if the song is completely genius and beauitiful and is probably, the best thing Axl has done in a while.

James now that youve gotten me thinking about Axl on this song, im realizing again just how genius the new Guns songs are. All of them are fantastic.

[kingaxl]

The song uses lines from Salinger's book. Those who know about Salinger know about his absolute refusal to allow permission for anything related to the book to be used. While the actual title of the book might be able to be used, there is no way this song can be released without the approval of Salinger.

Could this be one of the reasons for CD's delay? As we know, its a powerful song, and a polished version will be absolutely amazing. Maybe Axl had hopes for the song to be on CD, but then dropped the idea and is saving it for later. When Axl first went to NY, wasn't there a rumour he was trying to secure rights to the Madagascar quotes? If so, its safe to assume he was also trying to get permission for CITR. Now that it has pretty much been ruled out for CD, he must not have got permission. Unfortunately, this song may never see the light of day.

It is not reason for the delay because the reason for the delay is "axl"

  you damn right!!!!