A Reason for no CITR?

[jameslofton29]

The song uses lines from Salinger's book. Those who know about Salinger know about his absolute refusal to allow permission for anything related to the book to be used. While the actual title of the book might be able to be used, there is no way this song can be released without the approval of Salinger.

Could this be one of the reasons for CD's delay? As we know, its a powerful song, and a polished version will be absolutely amazing. Maybe Axl had hopes for the song to be on CD, but then dropped the idea and is saving it for later. When Axl first went to NY, wasn't there a rumour he was trying to secure rights to the Madagascar quotes? If so, its safe to assume he was also trying to get permission for CITR. Now that it has pretty much been ruled out for CD, he must not have got permission. Unfortunately, this song may never see the light of day.

[theillusion]

The song uses lines from Salinger's book. Those who know about Salinger know about his absolute refusal to allow permission for anything related to the book to be used. While the actual title of the book might be able to be used, there is no way this song can be released without the approval of Salinger.

Could this be one of the reasons for CD's delay? As we know, its a powerful song, and a polished version will be absolutely amazing. Maybe Axl had hopes for the song to be on CD, but then dropped the idea and is saving it for later. When Axl first went to NY, wasn't there a rumour he was trying to secure rights to the Madagascar quotes? If so, its safe to assume he was also trying to get permission for CITR. Now that it has pretty much been ruled out for CD, he must not have got permission. Unfortunately, this song may never see the light of day.

It is not reason for the delay because the reason for the delay is "axl"

[jameslofton29]

It is not reason for the delay because the reason for the delay is "axl"

I dont think there is one big specific reason for the album not being out yet. I believe it is a series of reasons, with not securing rights to CITR quotes as being one of those reasons.

[LookingThruThisPOV]

It is not reason for the delay because the reason for the delay is "axl"

I dont think there is one big specific reason for the album not being out yet. I believe it is a series of reasons, with not securing rights to CITR quotes as being one of those reasons.

Not trying to be an ass, but the main reason would still be Axl.  Its been well-documented and I'm sure the members here don't need a re-hash.  At this point, Axl should move on if its due to unoriginal content in his lyrics.  Would it be right for him to delay CD any further, just so he can use someone else's words in one song?  No, its not right, but it would not be out of the norm for Axl...

[Lord Kayoss]

Unfortunately, this song may never see the light of day.

It would truly be a let down if CITR isn't on CD, but we'll always have the studio-quality leak which will be enough for me.

[jameslofton29]

It is not reason for the delay because the reason for the delay is "axl"

I dont think there is one big specific reason for the album not being out yet. I believe it is a series of reasons, with not securing rights to CITR quotes as being one of those reasons.

Not trying to be an ass, but the main reason would still be Axl.  Its been well-documented and I'm sure the members here don't need a re-hash.  At this point, Axl should move on if its due to unoriginal content in his lyrics.  Would it be right for him to delay CD any further, just so he can use someone else's words in one song?  No, its not right, but it would not be out of the norm for Axl...

CITR is a very powerful song. I think its brilliant how he incorporates Salinger's words into what he is trying to convey. In my opinion, one of Axl's finest moments.

POV, this isn't a bash Axl thread. Find another thread to do that.

Unfortunately, this song may never see the light of day.

It would truly be a let down if CITR isn't on CD, but we'll always have the studio-quality leak which will be enough for me.

I agree. I want a finished version of this song more than any other. It is truly a masterpiece. If Salinger doesn't give permission, it would be a crime. Axl isn't trashing the legacy of CITR, so I see no logical reason for Salinger to deny permission. Hopefully, he at least heard the song before making his decision.

[axlsalinger]

I believe it is a series of reasons, with not securing rights to CITR quotes as being one of those reasons.

I would be EXTREMELY shocked if this was the case. The song does not quote from the book, it only vaguely refers to themes from it. First of all, there is absolutely no way JD Salinger could prevent GNR from playing this song live. As for it being on the album, I still highly doubt it, but perhaps it could be blocked because of the title. But Axl did say at one point that it wouldn't be on the first record anyway. There are more than enough finished songs (according to Axl) to replace 1 or 2 that can't make it for whatever reasons.

Lastly, JD Salinger is one of the most reclusive people in the world, and even his lawyers could not prevent books from being published that are all about him! Or displaying his mailbox on the cover. (see below) I would be stunned if Salinger has any knowledge of this song at all. The movie Conspiracy Theory shows and mentions the book, as will (I am sure) the upcoming movie about Mark David Chapman called Chapter 27. Lawyers can only do so much.

....

[jameslofton29]

Well, maybe the song has a special meaning to him, so he wanted it to be on the first CD. It does quote from the book, or if not, it paraphrases quotes from the book, which still might require some sort of approval on Salinger's part. I will reread the book this week to make sure, but I'm pretty sure he is using some exact quotes. Maybe a member here who has read it recently could back me up on that. But with your name being AxlSalinger, I guess you would know.

I dont think the song title itself is the problem. I used to believe that, but someone(dave2k?) pointed out that there is a song in existence called CITR. I dont remember the name of the band.

[killingvector]

I didn't at all remember an exact quote from the book; therefore, there shouldn't be a problem.

[axlsalinger]

http://It does quote from the book, or if not, it paraphrases quotes from the book

The only direct reference I noticed refers to a poem in the book (that itself was written by Robert Burns) that has a special meaning for Holden Caulfield.

"You know that song 'If a body catch a body comin' through the rye'? I'd like?"
"It's 'If a body meet a body coming through the rye'!" old Phoebe said. "It's a poem. By Robert Burns."
"I know it's a poem by Robert Burns."
She was right, though. It is "If a body meet a body coming through the rye." I didn't know it then, though."

In the song, Axl refers to that part of the book with "How a body took a body, gave that boy a gun".

[dave-gnfnr2k]

I believe it is a series of reasons, with not securing rights to CITR quotes as being one of those reasons.

I would be EXTREMELY shocked if this was the case. The song does not quote from the book, it only vaguely refers to themes from it. First of all, there is absolutely no way JD Salinger could prevent GNR from playing this song live. As for it being on the album, I still highly doubt it, but perhaps it could be blocked because of the title. But Axl did say at one point that it wouldn't be on the first record anyway. There are more than enough finished songs (according to Axl) to replace 1 or 2 that can't make it for whatever reasons.

Lastly, JD Salinger is one of the most reclusive people in the world, and even his lawyers could not prevent books from being published that are all about him! Or displaying his mailbox on the cover. (see below) I would be stunned if Salinger has any knowledge of this song at all. The movie Conspiracy Theory shows and mentions the book, as will (I am sure) the upcoming movie about Mark David Chapman called Chapter 27. Lawyers can only do so much.

....

Again Axl never said it would not be on the first album,he said CITR was set to be the 3rd single. I dont know why people get this mixed up. Also, about the quote axl uses in the song, what is the exact quote that axl uses? If its not exact then axl can use it

[JDA]

It's a great song and it's a shame they haven't been playing it in concerts.  Would also be a bid shock if it's not on the cd.  Great song. 

[dave-gnfnr2k]

It's a great song and it's a shame they haven't been playing it in concerts.? Would also be a bid shock if it's not on the cd.? Great song.?

To be honest who cares if its not on the  album, that is just one more song that we have not  heard we will get for CD. Since CITR is almost a finished product its good enough for me, but I would only let to slide to the next album if there is a song better than it.

[RichardNixon]

It's a great song and it's a shame they haven't been playing it in concerts.? Would also be a bid shock if it's not on the cd.? Great song.?

To be honest who cares if its not on the? album, that is just one more song that we have not? heard we will get for CD. Since CITR is almost a finished product its good enough for me, but I would only let to slide to the next album if there is a song better than it.

But it deserves to be heard.

[kever20]

It is not reason for the delay because the reason for the delay is "axl"

I dont think there is one big specific reason for the album not being out yet. I believe it is a series of reasons, with not securing rights to CITR quotes as being one of those reasons.

I understood the references to the book, but I don't recall any actual quotes... Would you be a dear and cite the quotes with page numbers for us all??

[jameslofton29]

http://It does quote from the book, or if not, it paraphrases quotes from the book

The only direct reference I noticed refers to a poem in the book (that itself was written by Robert Burns) that has a special meaning for Holden Caulfield.

"You know that song 'If a body catch a body comin' through the rye'? I'd like?"
"It's 'If a body meet a body coming through the rye'!" old Phoebe said. "It's a poem. By Robert Burns."
"I know it's a poem by Robert Burns."
She was right, though. It is "If a body meet a body coming through the rye." I didn't know it then, though."

In the song, Axl refers to that part of the book with "How a body took a body, gave that boy a gun".

Bingo. Thats the part I was referring to. Obviously Axl paraphrased it instead of using a direct quote. Good detective work Salinger. When hearing that line in the song, it made me think it was a direct line from the book. They are so close in similarity, thats why I thought it was a direct quote. There is another part of the song that I thought was a line from the book, but maybe I should read it again first.

[A Private Eye]

It's a shame Brian May didn't get the chance to play with Axl at Hammersmith, had the song been played then I think it would suggest the song is still in Axls plans if they hadn't of played it then I would guess we wouldn't hear that song on CD and perhaps not even on any album after that.

If this song is banned from being used by Salinger which I don't think is possible I'm glad it leaked, it would be a travesty had never been heard at all.

[Tomorrows]

Unlikely I say. I doubt Salinger has any clue of what goes on in the world. Hes like the biggest recluse ever. Plus he hasnt shown himself to be litigious in the past ... has he?

[jameslofton29]

Unlikely I say. I doubt Salinger has any clue of what goes on in the world. Hes like the biggest recluse ever. Plus he hasnt shown himself to be litigious in the past ... has he?

He has stated he will never allow CITR to be used for anything, but I think he is referring to a movie based on the book, although I am sure a song using parts of the book would fall into that category. But apparently I was wrong in thinking there are any direct quotes from the book, although CITR definitely paraphrases lines from the book. That in and of itself might cause some problems. Not sure though. I am definitely going to read the book again. Anyone here read it recently?

[whiny]

citr is either

a) too complex (in axl's opinion) to be played live before the release of cd, or

b) too much of a big gun (3rd single?) to be "wasted" right now, or

c) not gonna be on chinese democracy (but the promised record after or the record after): which would be quite a sad thing, 'cause "catcher" and "better" are my favourite new gnr tracks