Robin Fink: 10 Years Apparently Arent Enough

[Neemo]

Also, rejecting all of Slash's material, his general disdain for fans etc probably didnt help.

actually Duff reportedly walked out on those sessions first, before Axl

So Duff rejected all of Slash's material?

I wasnt aware of that.

So why did Duff leave then?

duff was the last to leave wasnt he??

duff couldnt have rejected it when he ended up playing some on its 5 oclock somewhere

He played one song on 5 O'Clock...but there is an interview with Axl somewhere where he says that that was supposed to be the 'next' gnr record...but even Duff refused to do it and actually walked out on the sessions...then later axl walked out on it...then Slash got Mike Inez and Eric Dover, I think overall that GnR was in a bad situation at the end in '95...none of them could see eye to eye...they had unravelled.

you are correct Duff was the last to leave...but he left only after Finck and Vrenna had been brought in from NIN for the fabled "Industrial" record...Jarmo has a great history of GnR section ya know check it out some time

And yet you understand how one can like GnR and HATE Axl with passion? Or Robin.
That would be puzzling to me.

Nah I don't hate robin but i do hate the way robin plays the old songs...especially patience and i dislike NIN so that part of his background doesn't impress me much...and his mysterious attitude to fans is puzzling to me (ie the time where he just walked away from somebody asking and NIN question without a word, and Tonya's recollection of the weird look and creepy vibe) but at the same time .... I love There Was a Time (yes it has grown on me )and Better and IRS and Maddy. The Blues is OK but to me the writing process with May is clouding things up at the moment for me

Also no i don't understand how one can hate Axl and love GnR at the same time but we don't get much Axl bashing on here....just the media the rest get banned

One band i DO hate is AC/DC

[Locomotive98]

IMHO slash is awsome and finck is average!!he has done nothing to associate why he should even be in the same league as slash!!i mean example, slash wrote scom, wether you're a GNR fan or not 99% of people have heard of it.i havnt heard on of fincks songs outside of GNR.slash is a rock god. finck is average/good IMHO

Yeah and if slash had his way that SCOM we all know and love would have been scrapped.

But you never would have known about it so it wouldnt matter.

So what do you have against Slash then? Go on, tell us!

Like I just said, some of you need to get a clue. Just because we think Finck is great doesnt mean we think slashs work in sucks. Where do you people come up with this shit? All I am saying is Finck is great and not crap like some of your claim and his work on the demos and live stuff so far is on par with a lot of the work slash did in gnr.

A few songs and a bunch of live shows is not on a par with slash's work in GNR. Have you noticed that the old line up released a few albums and did the biggest tour ever whilst Slash also managed to establish himself as a lengendary rock n roll icon?
 
As well as writing some awesome stuff - Slash helped build Guns from nothing to the biggest band in the world. He didnt just hop aboard some established name. Albeit one that has long since been dragged through the mud. To suggest that what Finck has done with GNR is on a par with Slash is a blatent insult to the intelligence of everyone who posts here.

But at least you said Slash's work doesnt suck. Cos if you did.....

As for slash just not ?hopping on the est. gnr name and dragging it through the mudd, you know what he did do right?
He quit the band that he helped built and left Axl hanging. He also bad mouths the band every chance he gets.

Are you actually Axl? If so, please get this fucking album out so we can criticise that instead.

I think the general story of why Slash quit was because Axl was a megolomanic who wanted to change the bands style to whatever was fashionable at the time, be it NIN or whatever. Plus, I think making them sign over the band name whilst threatening to leave during a massive tour didnt help. Its not like that worked for him though - 13 years down the line and hes still not done anything really worthy with that name.

Also, rejecting all of Slash's material, his general disdain for fans etc probably didnt help.

So does Slash really bad mouth the band at all? Please provide examples.....

As far as I see he doesnt really care that much, and rightly so. Its not like hes tarnished the GNR name or anything. He quit whilst he was ahead. If someone rejected everything I put forward Id leave too.

But we've been over this all a million times so theres not much else to say.

First off Slash quite because he did not want to evolve the band. The funny thing is he refused to work on axl songs yet you get pissed when ?you say Axl rejected slashs material which is not true. Axl told slash his songs needed work and slash refused to fix them up. That is why axl later asked for the songs because axl thought slash fixed them up but he didnt and instead used them for snake pit. ?

As for Axl making the band sign over the name, that is because they were ?wasted back then and Axl did not want them fucking up the band.

How does Axl has disdain for the band, please explain that one?

The fact is slash and duff quit over the musical direction of the band yet when they went to VR instead of sounding like gnr they ended up sounding llike STP which is not the direction they wanted to go in with axl ?

First of all, I didnt say Axl has disdain for the band. I said his fans. Hopefully I dont need to explain that point to you. Seems pretty obvious.

If Axl said Slash's songs need some work then why not help him out? Isnt that what bands do - they collaborate. Maybe thats why CD isnt out yet. More of a dictatorship than a band perhaps. Surely when you present someone in your band with a song its not the finished song. Axl wasnt his boss, they were in a band together and he should have behaved that way. As for Slash rejecting Axl's material - Well, if it was anything like Silkworms or whatever back then, then good for Slash.

Axl then did what - Didnt he try and sue Slash for the Snakepit songs that he'd previously rejected? Oh so you did like them then did you, just being difficult were you? What a surprise.

As for the part of saying he took over the band name because they were too wasted - thats ridiculous surely. Again hes being a control freak. Why hasnt he given them whats rightfully theirs now that theyre sober and gone on to do the 'Axl Rose Connection' or whatever?

Most of the time I like to think that I can have an unbiased conversation on this board, but with you Dave it seems that what Axl says is the absolute truth, everyone else is a liar. Whys that? Do you know something we dont....?

[Neemo]

I agree with Neemo's posts.?

thanks boss!! ...finally some support i was feeling a bit

[25]

Robin's, apparently. You see, there's this new line-up of GNR now and they're out touring and. . . Well, you can see were that argument kind of falls flat

Well they are playing mostly old tunes from the orig band so i guess you're referring to those 3 "new" songs they play each night? you can see were that argument kind of falls flat

Well, no.
Because Slash isn't playing guitar in GNR anymore, therefore his guitar playing isn't part of the live equation. They could go out and play Prince covers all night long and you'd still be listening to Robin's guitar-playing. I guess what you mean is that, since they're playing a set of old GNR songs, it's the old material which is bringing people to the shows. Which is probably less true than the fact that the GNR name is what's getting the shows to happen in the first place and bringing the people in. That's certainly true, I have no arguments there.   

But the question of whether Robin is a good guitarist doesn't really have anything to do with that baggage. The name of the band and the fact that they're limited to playing mainly established material from a different line-up isn't his fault, and has nothing to do with his abilities. In NIN he was playing someone else's music every night and his talent was still readily apparent.

In fact, look at blues or jazz musicians. They have a long and storied tradition of using particular song structures and covering standards, and no-one would  say "Oh yeah, Coltrane's version of 'My Favorite Things' was amazing but he didn't write the tune, so fuck him, he's a hack."  It would be laughable.

I know that the cognitive dissonance is the result of having to weigh intangible momentary live performances by Robin against the established recorded back-catalogue of material. the reason that he's compared against Slash is because he's playing the songs Slash used to play, we all realize that. But it will always be that way, for as long as he's in GNR he'll have to play those songs. And it seems doubly silly to judge him by how closely he sticks to Slash's style and phrasing on those songs when Robin probably has no inclination to emulate Slash's playing anyway. It's a tad unfair to judge someone by what they aren't rather than what they are. So, he's not Slash. But he is Robin Finck, and that ought to be worth something.  At the very least, it ought to allow him the right to be judged by his own contributions.

He may well be a second-rate Slash, but he's a first-class Robin Finck. It's clear that he has more to offer than blurry photocopies of Slash's lines. I have no problem with people disliking him, or disliking his playing. That's fine. If you hear him play and decide that you think he's a piece of shit , then good for you. It's your head, you're entitled to your own thoughts. But those who immediately assert that he's crap because he's not someone else are flushing the entire thought process down the toilet. It's setting an impossible goal, deliberately designed to be unachievable.








I'll go out on a limb here; I like Robin. And I like Slash. I think they're both good guitarists. I have my preference of the two, and it has nothing to do with who is in the band right now or who has the most credits on the most records, or even which is the better guitarist. It's entirely based on which one I prefer to listen to today. And that has absolutely no effect on the quality of the other guy's playing. He's still just as good as he was yesterday.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

neemo why do you hate how robin play patience, he plays it just like the old band did in 88/89

[Neemo]

Well, no.

Great post 25!! and I'm not saying that Robin has no talent..I'm disputing the posters that say he's the best guitarist GnR has ever had...cuz to me it's impossible to me with no official material under his belt...also some posters say that he plays the old tunes better than Slash did...hmm i beg to differ...but that's my opinion...i can equally voice it as much as the ones who swing the robin direction..sadly I'm one of the few who seems to defend Slash around here lately. Most people prolly can't be bothered but I can't help myself

as to Robin's playing bringing in the fans to the shows....hmmm...somehow i don't think so, maybe the diehard Robin fans around these boards...But I doubt the average person has easy access to bootlegs or leaks...most people know the songs as they appear on the albums or in the GH or live era disks...that is a big strike against your argument there because Robin isn't on an officially released GnR track yet...so in going to a concert avereage people prolly expect to hear GnR tunes as they are heard on GnR albums...which is Slash's playing...sorry to say somebody should do a poll at the next GnR show...

I'm doing a Survety for a GnR website can i ask you a question? Are you excited to see Robin tonight? a) Yes b) No c) Who the fuck is Robin?

just for shits and giggles

neemo why do you hate how robin play patience, he plays it just like the old band did in 88/89

I dunno...I just don't like the way he plays the last solo It's one of the few GnR tunes i can play and he's bending notes and shit everywhere and he's off on them IMO...just pluck 'em man, like it's supposed to be done....but he does it the same everyday so i know he means to do it....I just don't like it to tell you the truth that is a big cornerstone of my dissapointment...I kinda wish they would stop playing it

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Here is a clean slash playing patience
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Za7mqvuoTQ&search=guns%20n%20roses%20patience




I dont see much difference in how they play it.

[JAC185]

Slash being great doesn't make Finck necessarily bad, yes Slash wrote great riffs and solos, we all know that

And to the same extent, to prove Finck is good, don't try to prove hes better than Slash. Slash isn't great coz hes better than Finck, hes great coz hes great, if you want to try and show Finck is great, bring up something hes done that is great on its own, not just in comparison to Slash's work

I tried to make that sound as simple as possible but now im not sure it makes sense

[Neemo]

Here is a clean slash playing patience
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Za7mqvuoTQ&search=guns%20n%20roses%20patience




I dont see much difference in how they play it.

Man are you serious? Look at the whole solo slash plays there, he picks ever note and flourishes more notes in there...that's the way i like it...Robin doesn't play like that...he bends his notes and goes to far with the bends IMO and when he does pick it's all stuttery stoppy like....he's not a smooth player (I coined Sloppy a while ago ) ....watch that you tube one from 3:30 to 4:30 that whole minute...Robin doesn't play it like that

see here i go again I try not to compare the two cuz they play totally different but you go and do that and make me miss slash again

if you're gonna play a tune...play it right IMO

[25]

I'm not saying that Robin has no talent..I'm disputing the posters that say he's the best guitarist GnR has ever had...cuz to me it's impossible to me with no official material under his belt...also some posters say that he plays the old tunes better than Slash did...hmm i beg to differ...but that's my opinion...i can equally voice it as much as the ones who swing the robin direction..sadly I'm one of the few who seems to defend Slash around here lately. Most people prolly can't be bothered but I can't help myself

as to Robin's playing bringing in the fans to the shows....hmmm...somehow i don't think so

Oh, I agree that people aren't going to the shows to see Robin. I said that the GNR name was bringing them, I'm sure that a large percentage of the people at the shows have no idea who Robin or any of the other guys are.

And if anyone is calling Robin "the best" anything they they should probably be ignored, or delivered to an institution capable of dealing with fanboy nutswingers. They're just as bad as the detractors for blindly taking sides. I don't even understand why there are "sides," but that's the way of things among fanboys, I guess. Regardless, Robin's a good guitar player and in time will likely come into his own. But even if he becomes completely accepted and utterly adored by GNR fans, Slash still won't need defending. Slash is big enough and ugly enough to get by on his own. And anyone who needs to take pot-shots at one of those guys to make the other look better is either deluded or thoroughly insecure in their position.

For those who feel the need to slight Slash: You might want to check out the albums he did with this one band, it was called Guns N Roses. He was pretty fucking good at what he did.

For those who feel the need to slight Robin: You might want to check out the shows he's doing with this one band, it's called Guns N Roses. He's pretty fucking good at what he does.

For those who feel the need to compare the two ad infinitum: I hate to pop your little unreality bubble, but these are two different guys. They have different styles. Yes, I know that you prefer one to the other, that's what life is made up of - things you like, things you don't like, and the things in between. It's different for everyone. It's okay to like more than one thing. Really. I swear. "Two opinions in one head? Who can live at that speed?!" I know, it might take some getting used to. But it can be done. You have my word. 

[slashisvr]

im supporting locomotive98.spot on!!

[Locomotive98]

im supporting locomotive98.spot on!!

Aaahhh thanks mate! At least I'm not alone. 

[Neemo]

im supporting locomotive98.spot on!!

Aaahhh thanks mate! At least I'm not alone.?

also from memory i seem to recall reading that Slash was unwilling to budge from his own 'vision'

[slashisvr]

slash seems to do what he feels is right, he always has, he doesnt let others get in his way

[Origen]

im supporting locomotive98.spot on!!

Aaahhh thanks mate! At least I'm not alone.?

also from memory i seem to recall reading that Slash was unwilling to budge from his own 'vision'

Slash didn't have a "vision" he just wanted to keep writing/playing Rock N Roll. Axl was the one who wouldn't budge from his industrial/try everythink vision.

[Neemo]

slash seems to do what he feels is right, he always has, he doesnt let others get in his way

same with Axl

Origen....the Industrial vision didn't happen until Vrenna came into the picture...after Slash left

[Locomotive98]

im supporting locomotive98.spot on!!

Aaahhh thanks mate! At least I'm not alone.?

also from memory i seem to recall reading that Slash was unwilling to budge from his own 'vision'

Also from memory I believe that Slash wanted to do what GNR were doing and thats being a rock n roll band. Thats what they all signed up for and thats what they were.

I cant imagine he wanted to go from being GNR to NIN overnight. And why should he?

If Axl wanted to do Industrial/Piano ballads etc couldnt he have set up a side project or released a solo album? The others managed quite easily.

I can only imagine that hes carrying as GNR because hes worried he'd fail if he was in a band with another name. If thats the case it becomes more about money and fame than the music itself and I reckon thats why its taking an absurd amount of time to get it released.

[the dirt]

Axl's admiration for Trent and the way he ran things in NIN grew when the old band completely disolved. (and yeah, he also liked NIN's sound...)

Axl wants to be the wizard behind the curtain like Reznor is. He has a vision and wanted everything to take the shape of this idea, exactly the way he wants it. So, he sees Robin in NIN- a guitarist that can help Trent acheive exactly what he wants. We all know who is responsible for all of NIN's music.

Axl then goes hey, if Robin can be manipulated in a sense, maybe I can get out of him what Trent was capable of getting out of him for my CD.

[slashisvr]

slash seems to do what he feels is right, he always has, he doesnt let others get in his way

same with Axl

Origen....the Industrial vision didn't happen until Vrenna came into the picture...after Slash left

yes but slash was never controlive about it!!he didnt say look you have to do this or get out of my band!!!

locomotive98 once again spot on!!

[ppbebe]

@ the dirt, I doubt your NIN theory. According to Tommy Axl doesn't have a particular vision but just the goals.

@ Neemo I wasn't reffering to you, I meant do you understand the hatred toward robin ron or Axl (yep there are. did you not read the drunk bite thread?) seen in this thread or other.

I tried to make that sound as simple as possible but now im not sure it makes sense

It's does. competition ruins music.
Song A won't be better or worse because of song B.
Your sister won't be less pretty because your gf is gorgeous.
You won't be more intellectual or less than you're because your GFs brother is in Harvard.