MLB - Discuss Yesterday's action or anything you want

[GeorgeSteele]

Ryan Howard and the Phillies are starting the scare the hell out of me.  Last night, he led off the bottom of the ninth of a tie game - and was intentionally walked (it worked, the Phillies didn't score that inning).  Unreal. 

Also, their starting 5 (Myers, Lieber, Hamels, Moyer and Wolf) is actually not bad.  Hope the Mets won't have to face them in the playoffs...

Nice to hear that Ortiz was cleared to play again... hopefully all is now well with him healthwise.  Varitek and Ramirez are back too.  Mark my words, just when Boston fans are making peace with this season being a lost cause, the team will go on another winning streak to come within reach of the division lead. 

[pilferk]

Mark my words, just when Boston fans are making peace with this season being a lost cause, the team will go on another winning streak to come within reach of the division lead.?

With the upcoming 4 game stint against the Yanks in NYC, anything is possible.  But with an 8 game lead, and 25 to play, the odds aren't great.  I think the Sox need to set their eye on the Wild Card race, to start, and if they can snag the division lead so much the better.

If the Yanks played just over .500 ball for the rest of the year (say 13 wins, 12 losses), the Sox would have to play .840 ball just to tie.  I mean, it's sure possible that the Yanks will play WORSE than .500 ball, and give the Sox an in, but the Red Sox are fighting against the clock now...and the wild card race is a bit more attainable right now.  We'll see what the next 25 games brings.

[GeorgeSteele]

Mark my words, just when Boston fans are making peace with this season being a lost cause, the team will go on another winning streak to come within reach of the division lead.?

With the upcoming 4 game stint against the Yanks in NYC, anything is possible.? But with an 8 game lead, and 25 to play, the odds aren't great.? I think the Sox need to set their eye on the Wild Card race, to start, and if they can snag the division lead so much the better.

If the Yanks played just over .500 ball for the rest of the year (say 13 wins, 12 losses), the Sox would have to play .840 ball just to tie.? I mean, it's sure possible that the Yanks will play WORSE than .500 ball, and give the Sox an in, but the Red Sox are fighting against the clock now...and the wild card race is a bit more attainable right now.? We'll see what the next 25 games brings.

I have no doubt the Yankees will win the division, but I do think the Sox will make just enough of a run to torture their fans for one more month.  So forget the Red Sox, just hope that the Angels don't go on a late run to win the Wild Card.   

[cotis]

Something you don't see everyday, days after Ramon Ortiz lost his bid for a no-hitter in the 9th inning, Anibal Sanchez of the Florida Marlins, just tossed a no-hitter against the Arizona Diamondbacks. The 22 year old rookie is the first rookie since 2001 (Bud Smith) to toss one.

He's one of only THREE I believe in Marlins history. He was called up earlier this year from AA and pitched a great game against the Yankees earlier this season. Used to be a member of the Red Sox farmsystem if I'm not mistaken.

CONGRATS!!!?

[Mal Brossard]

Fourth in Marlins history-- Kevin Brown, Al Leiter, A.J. Burnett, and now Sanchez.

Anyone care to join the Theo Epstein lynch mob with me?  The douche traded Sanchez (7-2, ERA around 3, VORP of 27.3, can't find his WARP1 though) and Hanley Ramirez (.285, 13 HR, 49 RBI, 44 steals, VORP of 41.7, and WARP1 of 5.4 as a rookie) for Josh Beckett (14-10 record and ERA over 5, a VORP of only 14.6, and a WARP1 of only 4.0) and Mike Lowell (decent numbers, .288 with 17 HR, 67 RBI, WARP1 of 4.8, and VORP of 17.8 ).

Smooth move, Ex-lax.

[pilferk]

Fourth in Marlins history-- Kevin Brown, Al Leiter, A.J. Burnett, and now Sanchez.

Anyone care to join the Theo Epstein lynch mob with me?? The douche traded Sanchez (7-2, ERA around 3, VORP of 27.3, can't find his WARP1 though) and Hanley Ramirez (.285, 13 HR, 49 RBI, 44 steals, VORP of 41.7, and WARP1 of 5.4 as a rookie) for Josh Beckett (14-10 record and ERA over 5, a VORP of only 14.6, and a WARP1 of only 4.0) and Mike Lowell (decent numbers, .288 with 17 HR, 67 RBI, WARP1 of 4.8, and VORP of 17..

Smooth move, Ex-lax.

Theo's becoming quite the goat, this season, for the Boston fans.

And now the lead for the Yanks is back up to 9, and the magic number is 15.

The Sox have scored 5 runs in 28 innings.....that's not going to win you many ball games.? It managed to win them 2 out of 3 against the White Sox, though.....but I wouldn't hold out hope that the Sox pitching staff, mangeled as it is, would be able to hold the majority of teams to the kind of power outage they held Chigago to.

[mikegiuliana]

Mets are fucking awesome.... Kicked the first place dodger's ass last night.. They;ve given up 1 run in their last 27 innings (mets)

see reyes hit that inside the park homerun,. not even a throw, he can fly.. 87 wins...

[pilferk]

Mets are fucking awesome.... Kicked the first place dodger's ass last night.. They;ve given up 1 run in their last 27 innings (mets)

see reyes hit that inside the park homerun,. not even a throw, he can fly.. 87 wins...

You gotta peg the Mets as the team to beat, right now.  The only concern I'd have, if I were a Mets fan, is their interleague record...especially against the top of the AL.  Because, unless they fall apart in the playoffs (and I dont' think they will), that's going to be their only real obstacle for a WS championship.

Damn I hope and pray we get a subway series.  The Yanks are only, I think, a game and a half away (tied in the loss column) from having the best record in the AL.

[GeorgeSteele]

Mets are fucking awesome.... Kicked the first place dodger's ass last night.. They;ve given up 1 run in their last 27 innings (mets)

see reyes hit that inside the park homerun,. not even a throw, he can fly.. 87 wins...

You gotta peg the Mets as the team to beat, right now.? The only concern I'd have, if I were a Mets fan, is their interleague record...especially against the top of the AL.? Because, unless they fall apart in the playoffs (and I dont' think they will), that's going to be their only real obstacle for a WS championship.

Damn I hope and pray we get a subway series.? The Yanks are only, I think, a game and a half away (tied in the loss column) from having the best record in the AL.

Complimenting the Mets?  You're obviously going for the reverse jinx.  Seriously, I think the Yanks and Mets are the best teams in their leagues, so a Subway Series should happen - but as you know, the best teams don't always win in the playoffs.  Still, I like the chances of it happening.  The only NL team I'd be concerned about for the Mets are the Phillies, while the Yankees probably don't want to face either the Angels or the White Sox.  Great thing is, probably none of those teams will make the playoffs.

Anyway, Mets-Yankees would be a great matchup. Yankees are great at working pitchers, getting into deep counts, and getting starters out of the game early.  But that might not work against the Mets because they generally don't rely on any of their starters to go deep into games, given the strength of their bullpen.  Plus, Randolph will run circles around Torre.

[pilferk]

Complimenting the Mets?? You're obviously going for the reverse jinx.? Seriously, I think the Yanks and Mets are the best teams in their leagues, so a Subway Series should happen - but as you know, the best teams don't always win in the playoffs.? Still, I like the chances of it happening.? The only NL team I'd be concerned about for the Mets are the Phillies, while the Yankees probably don't want to face either the Angels or the White Sox.? Great thing is, probably none of those teams will make the playoffs.

Anyway, Mets-Yankees would be a great matchup. Yankees are great at working pitchers, getting into deep counts, and getting starters out of the game early.? But that might not work against the Mets because they generally don't rely on any of their starters to go deep into games, given the strength of their bullpen.? Plus, Randolph will run circles around Torre.

The Mets are probably my 2nd favorite team, especially since '86.  I mean, what Yankee fan didn't just fall in love with the Mets for what they did to the Red Sox, eh? You can still make Red Sox fans CRY with 2 words (Bill Buckner), even post 2004.

 And with the former Yankee, Willie Randolph, at the helm...what's not to like. They're a stunningly good mix of young talent and veteran leadership. You just gotta love that whole story....Randolph has done a GREAT job (as has their front office, of late).  I think he should be (but isn't, largely) mentioned for NL Manager of the Year. 

As for Willie running rings around Joe...given that Joe basically mentored Willie on coaching and managing while Willie was sitting on the Yankee coaching staff....I (and I'm sure Joe) would take that as a compliment.

[GeorgeSteele]

As for Willie running rings around Joe...given that Joe basically mentored Willie on coaching and managing while Willie was sitting on the Yankee coaching staff....I (and I'm sure Joe) would take that as a compliment.

I was kidding about that.  Though I have never liked the Yankees, Joe Torre is by far my favorite manager/coach in any sport.  100% class.

[Mal Brossard]

As for Willie running rings around Joe...given that Joe basically mentored Willie on coaching and managing while Willie was sitting on the Yankee coaching staff....I (and I'm sure Joe) would take that as a compliment.

I was kidding about that.  Though I have never liked the Yankees, Joe Torre is by far my favorite manager/coach in any sport.  100% class.

As much as I hate the Yankees and often think Clueless Joe lives up to his name at times, I have to agree.  As many know, I'm a big autograph collector and in 2004, I was working on a Yankees team-signed ball (originally to sell when I figured they'd win the WS, then it became for keeps when I got A-Rod on it).  Anyways, just before ALCS game 5, the last game in Boston, there was a huge crowd at the hotel, some autograph seekers, some just slackjawed gawkers from Buttscrew, Montana who had never seen a celebrity before, with ropes out to try to control the crowd.  The scene pretty much resembled the mosh pit at the Dropkick Murphys show I was at a month before.  Anyways, I wasn't having the best luck this time-- missed Sheffield and Giambi, couldn't get to a few other players, but I eventually got to a decent spot near the front.

Last one out was Torre.  People were nearly knocking over the barriers to try to get to him to have him sign.  I just stood off to the side as he didn't sign for a single person pushing toward him.  He stepped back, as I thought he was about to get on the bus.  Calmly (unlike the animals up front), I just asked "Mr. Torre, would you mind signing my ball?"  And goddamn, he took it, stepped back, signed it, handed it back, and got on the bus.  Didn't sign anything for anyone except me, the one guy not pushing everyone out of the way.

If only more collectors acted calm and more players just ignored the crazy ones...

BTW, for anyone who cares, the ball is signed by Torre, Mattingly, Stottlemyer, Flaherty, Clark, Cairo, A-Rod, Sierra, Navarro, Lieber, Sturtze, Gordon, Quantrill, Hernandez, and Loaiza.

I had a Red Sox ball too, but sold it the day after they won the World Series ($300, but it had none of the big names, so I did pretty well-- had Varitek, Millar, Bellhorn, Mueller, Reese, Damon, Kapler, Youkilis, Mirabelli, McCarty, Nixon, Crespo, Burks, Lowe, Foulke, Embree, Mendoza, DiNardo, and coaches Ron Jackson, Lynn Jones, and Brad Mills).

[mikegiuliana]

pitching might be the downfall of both the mets and yankees.. At least the mets for me, guys like maine, OH, pedro perez williams, they have moments of greatness then look like batting practice pitchers another night,,, I have zero worries about offense ,then mets lineup is superb.. Wright is smoking hot now, reyes is doing his thing, delgado is jacking homers... Can't all hit at once but there's enough to pick up the slack... FU to floyd, fucking scrub bitch, iof he hit like last year the mets would be unstoppable offensively

[pilferk]

pitching might be the downfall of both the mets and yankees.. At least the mets for me, guys like maine, OH, pedro perez williams, they have moments of greatness then look like batting practice pitchers another night,,,

You just described MLB pitching in general.

I think both the Mets and the Yanks have a solid top 3.  The number 4 spot is questionable on both teams.....but that's less of a factor in the playoffs, so.....

And as of this morning, NYC has the two best teams in baseball...It's hard to believe Detroit has fallen so far.  I know that most of the baseball analysts predicted it after the All Star break but....I didn't think they'd be in an actual pennant race, with the YANKEES having a bigger lead in their division, come September, and the better record (well, by 1/2 game, but still). 

[pilferk]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2582790

So, Big Papi obviously doesn't know baseball. Or maybe he just doesn't know when to not comment on baseball.

You know, maybe he has a point about the fact it's not fair that, given the Red Sox slide, he's fallen off the de facto MVP "ballot".? I can see his point on that one.? I don't, necessarily, agree with him, but I see his point.

But to basically say Jeter is undeserving because he's not going to hit 40 HR and knock in 120+ RBI's is just insane.? It demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding on Ortiz part not just of the Yanks, but of baseball in general.? Jeter isn't SUPPOSED to hit 40 HR and knock i 120+ RBI's.? That's not his job.? It's not his place in the lineup (usually 2nd).? Jeter is supposed to get on base and/or move Damon along on the base paths.? That's why he's in the top part of the order.? And he does a damn good job.? It would be like me saying Ortiz doesn't deserve to be considered because he doesn't hit .340 and he doesn't steal 20 bases+ a year.? To arbitrarily say that HR's and RBI's are the most important categories to look is ludicrous.

Not to mention...the FACT of the matter is that Ortiz is only responsible for 6 more runs than Jeter is (182 to 176).  For those wanting to play along at home  (or just wanting to check my math), that number comes from taking Runs Scored, subtracting out the number of HRs so as not to duplicate them, and adding that total to RBI's.  Ortiz: (103-48)+127= 182.  Jeter (98 - 13)+91 = 176.

Also, whether Ortiz likes it or not, playing a position has to be taken into account.? He's a DH.? All he needs to do is hit.? And that's fine...he does it well..he "plays" his position very well and I stand firmly on the side of those that think a DH SHOULD be considered for MVP.? But Ortiz needs to allow for the fact that the opposite is true.? How many runs has Jeter saved with an awesome play at short?? How many hits has he robbed the other team of?

Now, I'm not saying Jeter deserves to win.? Maybe he doesn't.? But to belittle his contributions to the Yanks, and to say, basically, he doesn't derserve consideration....or to somehow use his numbers for Ortiz to say "look, I'm better than this guy"....that's just crazy talk.

I understand Ortiz is a bit burnt up over what's happened with the Sox.? But to make the type of comments he did on the subject....not cool.

[GeorgeSteele]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2582790

So, Big Papi obviously doesn't know baseball. Or maybe he just doesn't know when to not comment on baseball.

You know, maybe he has a point about the fact it's not fair that, given the Red Sox slide, he's fallen off the de facto MVP "ballot".? I can see his point on that one.? I don't, necessarily, agree with him, but I see his point.

But to basically say Jeter is undeserving because he's not going to hit 40 HR and knock in 120+ RBI's is just insane.? It demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding on Ortiz part not just of the Yanks, but of baseball in general.? Jeter isn't SUPPOSED to hit 40 HR and knock i 120+ RBI's.? That's not his job.? It's not his place in the lineup (usually 2nd).? Jeter is supposed to get on base and/or move Damon along on the base paths.? That's why he's in the top part of the order.? And he does a damn good job.? It would be like me saying Ortiz doesn't deserve to be considered because he doesn't hit .340 and he doesn't steal 20 bases+ a year.? To arbitrarily say that HR's and RBI's are the most important categories to look is ludicrous.

Not to mention...the FACT of the matter is that Ortiz is only responsible for 6 more runs than Jeter is (182 to 176).? For those wanting to play along at home? (or just wanting to check my math), that number comes from taking Runs Scored, subtracting out the number of HRs so as not to duplicate them, and adding that total to RBI's.? Ortiz: (103-48)+127= 182.? Jeter (98 - 13)+91 = 176.

Also, whether Ortiz likes it or not, playing a position has to be taken into account.? He's a DH.? All he needs to do is hit.? And that's fine...he does it well..he "plays" his position very well and I stand firmly on the side of those that think a DH SHOULD be considered for MVP.? But Ortiz needs to allow for the fact that the opposite is true.? How many runs has Jeter saved with an awesome play at short?? How many hits has he robbed the other team of?

Now, I'm not saying Jeter deserves to win.? Maybe he doesn't.? But to belittle his contributions to the Yanks, and to say, basically, he doesn't derserve consideration....or to somehow use his numbers for Ortiz to say "look, I'm better than this guy"....that's just crazy talk.

I understand Ortiz is a bit burnt up over what's happened with the Sox.? But to make the type of comments he did on the subject....not cool.

I love how Ortiz throws his teamates under the bus with the "come hit in this lineup, see how good you can be" line.  He does have a point though about the unfairness of A-Rod getting MVP with a last-place team.  Overall, though, his comments were lame.  2 words in response to HRs and RBI being everything:  Rickey Henderson.

[pilferk]

I love how Ortiz throws his teamates under the bus with the "come hit in this lineup, see how good you can be" line.? He does have a point though about the unfairness of A-Rod getting MVP with a last-place team.? Overall, though, his comments were lame.? 2 words in response to HRs and RBI being everything:? Rickey Henderson.

Yeah, I noticed that, too.  Nothing like dissing your team mates.

Again, like I said, I can see his point about dropping off the "list" because of the Sox woeful 2nd half.  I don't agree (as I didn't agree when A-Rod got it in Texas) but I can see his point.

The rest was, as you said, lame.

[Mal Brossard]

Alright, time for my sabermetric analysis of it all.  The big three in the AL MVP race are Derek Jeter, David Ortiz, and Travis Hafner.  Honestly, Justin Morneau should get consideration too, but I really only feel like looking up three players.

Before getting to the numbers, let me just say that as of right now, Jeter has played 136 games, Ortiz 132, and Hafner 127.  Many of these stats are normalized to eliminate factors of the ballpark each plays his home games in, and the stats dealing with a "replacement player" (VORP, RARP, and WARP1) deal with the average numbers of a potential replacement player at that player's position, not necessarily his true backup at that position.  Anyways, on to the numbers.

On-base plus slugging (OPS-- tells a player's ability to gain bases)
Ortiz 1.035, 4th in the AL
Jeter .912, 14th in the AL
Hafner 1.097, best in all of MLB

Runs Created per game (Just like it sounds-- how many runs the player has created, with weighted hits, walks, sacrifices, and steals as positives, and GIDP, caught stealing, and all other outs as negatives; if you want, I can give you the formula to show hos it's calculated)
Ortiz 8.4
Jeter 9.2
Hafner 10.7 (best in MLB)

VORP (Measures value to one's team compared to his replacement-- Value Over Replacement Player)
Ortiz 64.5, 9th in MLB
Jeter 73.4, 4th in MLB
Hafner 80.1, best in MLB

WARP1 (Measures value to one's team compared to his replacement in terms of winning, weighted for a single season-- Wins Above Replacement Player)
Ortiz 6.5
Jeter 8.5
Hafner 7.7

Win Shares (Determines how responsible a player is for his team winning)
Ortiz 23
Jeter 27
Hafner 24

Equivalent Average (EqA, A measure of total offensive value per out)
Ortiz .327
Jeter .320
Hafner .352 (Best in MLB)

Runs Above Replacement Player (RARP, Shows a player's equivalent run total as compared to his replacement, another stat showing value to his team)
Ortiz 55.8
Jeter 63.4
Hafner 67.3 (Best in MLB)

Going by these, it should be no contest.  Forget Jeter, forget Ortiz.  Travis Hafner should be the 2006 AL MVP.  He gets heavily punished for being a DH on a non-playoff team.

[mikegiuliana]

I think during the met game they said reyes has the best totals combined ever.. Something that his number equal have never been done before.. I don't know the exact combo between doubles hits hrs rbi triples steals etc.. Said he was the first player ever to achieve this..

[pilferk]

I agree, Hafner gets penalized for being a great player on a mediocre (at best), relatively poorly covered, team.? But he's also going to drop out of contention because he's not going to finish the season...that injury pretty much eliminates him from contention, I think (fairly or unfairly).

And, again, I'm not thinking Jeter deserves the AL MVP.? At least not yet. There's still too much baseball left, and the race is too tight, to make that distinction.? I think Dye and Morneau deserve equal cosideration and, depending on how the rest of the season plays out, I'd be pretty content seeing either of those 3 guys win it.

Edit: Oh, and it looks like we're not the only ones who dislike Ortiz's comments:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14791298/