Atlas Shrugged

[mr.lance]

leave my name out of any post on this topic.

[ironfin]

I posted this in response to a message on the MyGNR forum, but since it required some critical thought and reflection I thought it might be worthy of the attention of the superior board. Feel free to rip away if you think I was wrong. If not, I think it would be good for people to read this.....

By nunchuck on Jun 16 2006, 08:42 PM:

Fuckin hell, 'Atlas Shrugged'?!. Like, what the fuck is that supposed to mean?!
Where do people get this shit? i mean, really?!

It's from Greek mythology. Atlas was on the side of the Titans, so when the Olympians took over they punished him by making him hold up the heavens on his shoulders so they wouldn't touch the earth. He's a victim accepting of an unfair punishment, but even worse is the fact that his suffering only works to reinforce the world of those punishing him. If he stopped holding up the heavens, the Olympians could fall. Atlas shrugging would signify a revolt against the oppressor's command and a refusal to be a slave, pretty much the central idea behind everything 'Chinese Democracy' is about.

The analogous situation would be musicians who prostitute out their talents to the record companies. The record companies are absolutely nothing without the musicians who make the music they sell. Yet, far too often today, it is the musicians who submit to what kind of music the record companies tell them they have to make and how much time they have to create it. So an 'Atlas Shrugged' in this example might be someone who takes 14 years to make the record they want, as opposed to other musicians who meet the record companies' demands of about 8 months.

I think I figured out 'Patience' and it is suggestive of the same idea. Figuratively, the girl is representative of the record company eager to cash in, while the speaker in the song is the artist who needs patience in order to be able to create something original and lasting (not 'stuck in the crowd' of ordinary, transitory songs). And if you're willing to accept that interpretation, then the whistling at the beginning becomes a pretty funny inside joke - because it is sort of like suggesting GN'R was so rushed to produce the song that they didn't even have time to write lyrics for the first verse. Axl needing to read the words in the music video would be the same idea.

Man thats a really intresting insite, thanks! I think your right about the oppression side of Chinses  Democracu but I dont think he's refereing to the record companies. But anyway again thanks!

[Ellroy]

I posted this in response to a message on the MyGNR forum, but since it required some critical thought and reflection I thought it might be worthy of the attention of the superior board. Feel free to rip away if you think I was wrong. If not, I think it would be good for people to read this.....

By nunchuck on Jun 16 2006, 08:42 PM:

Fuckin hell, 'Atlas Shrugged'?!. Like, what the fuck is that supposed to mean?!
Where do people get this shit? i mean, really?!

It's from Greek mythology. Atlas was on the side of the Titans, so when the Olympians took over they punished him by making him hold up the heavens on his shoulders so they wouldn't touch the earth. He's a victim accepting of an unfair punishment, but even worse is the fact that his suffering only works to reinforce the world of those punishing him. If he stopped holding up the heavens, the Olympians could fall. Atlas shrugging would signify a revolt against the oppressor's command and a refusal to be a slave, pretty much the central idea behind everything 'Chinese Democracy' is about.

The analogous situation would be musicians who prostitute out their talents to the record companies. The record companies are absolutely nothing without the musicians who make the music they sell. Yet, far too often today, it is the musicians who submit to what kind of music the record companies tell them they have to make and how much time they have to create it. So an 'Atlas Shrugged' in this example might be someone who takes 14 years to make the record they want, as opposed to other musicians who meet the record companies' demands of about 8 months.

I think I figured out 'Patience' and it is suggestive of the same idea. Figuratively, the girl is representative of the record company eager to cash in, while the speaker in the song is the artist who needs patience in order to be able to create something original and lasting (not 'stuck in the crowd' of ordinary, transitory songs). And if you're willing to accept that interpretation, then the whistling at the beginning becomes a pretty funny inside joke - because it is sort of like suggesting GN'R was so rushed to produce the song that they didn't even have time to write lyrics for the first verse. Axl needing to read the words in the music video would be the same idea.

Interesting interpretation man. Gave me something to think about, especially your theory on Patience. "Atlas Shrugged" is a pretty cool title (especially if the lyrics don't contain those words) but I always really hated that book. More of an essay on why unions are evil and industrialist are really flawless heroes than a novel (perhaps she was more than a little scarred from her childhood in revolutionist Russia), but cool title for a song.

[georgie_beans]

Hi all. I always check this site, but I think this is only my second post in 2 years!

Was bored in work and found a reference on the BBC website to Atlas Shrugged being made into a movie.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7555679.stm

If this song is ready, do you think Axl would put it forward for the soundtrack?

[mnsotapop]

Well Atlas Shrugged was published in the 1950's and people have been trying to make it into a movie for years, so it does have other similarities w/ Chinese Democracy 

[Voodoochild]

If this song is ready, do you think Axl would put it forward for the soundtrack?

Judging for the release date of the other movie (late 2010), I sure hope it's not on the first album.

[legolas]

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged) Atlas Shrugged is, at approximately 645,000 words, one of the longest novels ever written in any European language. #15 actually http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_novels
So it took some time to read it probably

[leatherebel]

AdZ,


May I dare speculate that the following paragraph from the book might have stuck in Axl's head   

"You will follow me, she thought ? and felt as if the thought were not in words, but in the tension of her muscles, the tension of her will to accomplish a thing she knew to be outside her power, yet she knew with certainty that it would be accomplished and by her wish?no, she thought, not by her wish, but by its total rightness. You will follow me ? it was neither plea nor prayer nor demand, but the quiet statement of a fact, it contained the whole of her power of knowledge and the whole of the knowledge she had earned through the years. You will follow me, if we are what we are, you and I, if we live, if the world exists, if you know the meaning of this moment and can't let it slip by, as others let it slip, into the senselessness of the unwilled and unreached. You will follow me ? she felt an exultant assurance, which was neither hope nor faith, but an act of worship for the logic of existence."


Not only is this one of the longest books but it also one of the most difficult to read. Almost every page is that philosophical and the word choice is sometimes really heavy and complex.
 

[D]

Yeah u had me till u brought up Patience. Patience first was written by Izzy, second, that song is not metaphorical its a pretty straightforward love song.


So Chinese Democracy is also a metaphor, it isnt rallying for freedom for China.

[AdZ]

AdZ,


May I dare speculate that the following paragraph from the book might have stuck in Axl's head   

Go ahead, why would you need my permission?

[Groghan]

I posted this in response to a message on the MyGNR forum, but since it required some critical thought and reflection I thought it might be worthy of the attention of the superior board. Feel free to rip away if you think I was wrong. If not, I think it would be good for people to read this.....

Why the rip against the mygnr forum? The majority of regular posters, post at both sites.

Can you tell me why you feel that htgth has the  more "critical" thinkers?

Both boards have their advantages and disadvantages.
Mygnr allows more discussion and allows people to discuss more things - especially concerning leaks and conversations that might not just be kissing Axl's butt.

HTGTH is like your straight and narrow friend, star athlete, drinks his milk, toes the straight and narrow. Mygnr is like the hot, slutty girl at school, who get's A's in class, but also wears her skirt a little bit too short . . . .

The fact that a leak can come out and you can't talk about it on this forum says it all.

SO MY QUESTION for you, is how come you think this forum has the more critical thinkers than the other forum? I'm just curious, as I read both.

[jarmo]

The fact that a leak can come out and you can't talk about it on this forum says it all.

Yes it does.

It's pretty obvious who we support.

Thank you for noticing.




/jarmo

[AdZ]

Mygnr is like the hot, slutty girl at school, who get's A's in class, but also wears her skirt a little bit too short . . . .

More like the slutty girl with STD's who's still in 3rd grade even though she's 24.

[freddiebrph]

The fact that a leak can come out and you can't talk about it on this forum says it all.

Yes it does.

It's pretty obvious who we support.

Thank you for noticing.

 


/jarmo

Can you explain how not being able to talk about something, THAT WE ALL GET THE MINUTE IT IS OUT, is supporting GNR? I am not being sarcastic, or ripping this board, I really want to know why pretending something isnt happening is supporting the band?

[Groghan]

The fact that a leak can come out and you can't talk about it on this forum says it all.

Yes it does.

It's pretty obvious who we support.

Thank you for noticing.




/jarmo

Hello Jarmo,
Can I ask you here . . . or would PM be better?
I'm not trying to argue with you or anything like that.
I appreciate both forums.
Just for my own curiosity . . . .
Because mygnrforum allows it's members to talk about leaks . . . . and your forum doesn't . . . . that means you guys support the band more than they do?  Can you explain to me the thinking behind that?
Because I listened to a leak, that means somebody who chose not to listen to it is a bigger or better fan than I am???
I've been to several GnR shows. Bought several GnR t-shirts. Have purchased all their CDs at least twice. And even if every song off of Chinese Democracy was leaked tomorrow - I'm still going to buy the CD when it comes out.

I guess the question that most people have is that yes . . . people who leak new songs suck and it's a shitty thing to do to the band. But how can a GnR board not allow people to talk about GnR songs that we've heard?

Thanks in advance for your answers. ANd again, if you want to talk about this in PMs instead of on the board, I understand!!!! Thanks man.

[Jim Bob]

Why the rip against the mygnr forum? The majority of regular posters, post at both sites.

Can you tell me why you feel that htgth has the  more "critical" thinkers?

Both boards have their advantages and disadvantages.
Mygnr allows more discussion and allows people to discuss more things - especially concerning leaks and conversations that might not just be kissing Axl's butt.

HTGTH is like your straight and narrow friend, star athlete, drinks his milk, toes the straight and narrow. Mygnr is like the hot, slutty girl at school, who get's A's in class, but also wears her skirt a little bit too short . . . .

The fact that a leak can come out and you can't talk about it on this forum says it all.

SO MY QUESTION for you, is how come you think this forum has
 the more critical thinkers than the other forum? I'm just curious, as I read both.

what are you talking about?  half the posters at mygnr don't even support the band, they are just there to rip on them and talk about how much they love the old band more.

this forum is for supporting Guns N' Roses, not bringing them down and trashing anyone and everyone whose associated with the band.    Maybe the management here keeps the leaks on the d/l because they don't wish to have any part in spreading them.

critical thinkers might not be the right term, I would say "respectful".

[Groghan]

Respectful . . . . or mindless sheep?
Haha - just kidding!!!

I agree, it is annoying to listen to people who can't get over the past and do nothing but talk about wishing the old band was back together.

I think I get the philosophy difference in the two boards.

Mygnr allows all comments and thinking - good or bad - as long as your talking about GnR. They allow honest discussion - be it good, bad, positive or negative - about the band that we all grew up loving.

HTGTH only wants and allows positive comments about the band we all grew up loving.

And both boards think they are superior to the other.

I can see both sides and the merits of both forum policies.

THATS why I check out both.

Though, you have to admit, there are a lot of the same posts at both sites!

I tend to post a lot more at the other site, as personally I don't think that forums and message boards should be censored or regulated to the point where you can't say anything negative about the main topic of the forum. That seems a little un-rock-n-roll to me!!!

But again - I read both forums. I enjoy them both. And really can't understand why some people have such anger and resentment towards the other!

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

You also haven't posted here in two years.

Freedom of speech advocate?

I wouldn't put my money on it.

[Jim Bob]

I tend to post a lot more at the other site, as personally I don't think that forums and message boards should be censored or regulated to the point where you can't say anything negative about the main topic of the forum. That seems a little un-rock-n-roll to me!!!

i can see that POV, but i myself have no desire to share a site with a bunch of people who hate the band and anyone associated with it.   I know there are good GnR fans on that site, but you have to sift through spam about Axl being a pirate and how great slash is, and its just not everyone's cup of tea.    This site maintains a level of respect for the band that I appreciate, yours does not.  It took 60 pages before they locked a thread that was made to trash Axls personal assistants and thats just not cool AT ALL.

[jarmo]

Can you explain how not being able to talk about something, THAT WE ALL GET THE MINUTE IT IS OUT, is supporting GNR? I am not being sarcastic, or ripping this board, I really want to know why pretending something isnt happening is supporting the band?

We don't support or promote stealing the band's music.

It's pretty simple.


By talking about something you stole, it's like saying "don't steal, but let's talk about the stuff you stole anyway".

That's my opinion.

HTGTH only wants and allows positive comments about the band we all grew up loving.

We want people who are true fans to come here and not feel threatened that they'll get attacked by some "objective fans" for actually believing in the band and supporting them.

We don't try to cater to the negative masses, who's only interest is bashing the band and/or their fans, and acting tough on an Internet message board.







/jarmo