Time for A-Rod to say Bye-Bye to NY?

[oldgunsfan]

"3 -1.? Here's the pitch.? The ball is up, going back, Langerhans looks up at it...that ball is GONE. The YANKEES WIN!? THE YANKEES WIN! There go the boos and here come the cheers. A-Rod hits a walk off, 2 run blast to end the game and give the Yanks a 4-3 win."

I'd say that was about the clutchest piece of hitting anyone could ask for, eh?

"An A-Bomb from A-Rod"?

All's I can say is it's about fucking time

If he could do that or something to the equivalent about 30% of the time rather than the 2% in clutch situations A-Rod might actually get some love from the NY faithful....but as it stands now.....once every 2 months or so won't cut it

To be completely fair and accurate:
From the numbers ESPN put up yesterday (late inning hits, with a lead/deficit of 3 runs or less, I THINK with men on base but I'm not sure), he gets a hit about 22% (.218, to be exact) of the time, with 6 home runs, this season.? That's in a possible 40-something at bats, they said.? Off his .280 average, to be sure.? But nowhere near 2%.

You would hope he hit at or slightly above his average.? But in the grand scheme of the numbers, you're talking? about 6% to, at most, 10% difference over what you'd want to see him do.? And that's taking into account his AWFUL slump that lasted most of June.

Quote those stats to any Yankees fan, and they'll look at you like you have 3 heads

If you have a 3 run lead, with the prospect of having Rivera pitch at least 1inning for you late in the game, you're pretty well set....

Now, if ESPN wanted to show the Stats that Yankees fans really care about, the number of hits A-ROD has from the 7th inning on, with the Yankees trailing from 1-3 runs, with runners on base, w/ at least 1 out?    I don't know what the number would be, but I'd bet he has more strikeouts than hits, and more DPs than hit, with 1 HR (that being yetserday)

Cause I know the HR's ESPN is talking about, and there the one where he pads an already established lead the Jeter got for them

A_ROD puts up great number, but to most Yankees fans, their empty numbers, when the game's been decided

[pilferk]

Quote those stats to any Yankees fan, and they'll look at you like you have 3 heads

If you have a 3 run lead, with the prospect of having Rivera pitch at least 1inning for you late in the game, you're pretty well set....

Now, if ESPN wanted to show the Stats that Yankees fans really care about, the number of hits A-ROD has from the 7th inning on, with the Yankees trailing from 1-3 runs, with runners on base, w/ at least 1 out?? ? I don't know what the number would be, but I'd bet he has more strikeouts than hits, and more DPs than hit, with 1 HR (that being yetserday)

Cause I know the HR's ESPN is talking about, and there the one where he pads an already established lead the Jeter got for them

A_ROD puts up great number, but to most Yankees fans, their empty numbers, when the game's been decided

Well, given I AM a Yankees fan, and have been for the last...oh, I don't know...about 30 years... and I'd say they're compelling numbers.

The FACTS are, whenever anyone puts up ANY numbers, they're not nearly as bad as SOME Yankees fans think they are.? Perception is not reality (evidenced by the fact you don't KNOW the numbers, but ASSUME they? aren't very good), no matter how much you'd like it to be.? Is there room for improvement? Sure there is.? Jeesh...something for the best player in the game to work on to get BETTER.? Using ESPN's numbers, he needs to get just about 3 more hits, in those 40-something at bats, to be converting AT his average.? I'm sure he's hard at work on scrounging up those 3 extra hits.....given his performance the other night it looks like he's making some progress, eh?

And the numbers ESPN showed DID include the number's you're talking about.? It was a combined "lead/defecit" number. Both sides are, really, just as important. But, if you're suggesting all his hits came with a lead...well, I'd love to see some proof of that.? 'Cause, quite frankly, I doubt it's true.? And the numbers people have been putting up, of late, defending A-rod back that doubt up. Your "anecdotal" memory just isn't as compelling, all things considered.

And there's no way "great numbers" can be "empty numbers".? A statement like that can only come from someone who doesn't really know the game of baseball, or hasn't put much thought into the statement.? It's ludicrous. You hit 300+, with 40+ homers and 120+ RBI's every year and it's impossible for them to be "empty" numbers.? ?You can "percieve" them to be empty numbers, but the truth is perception is not reality.

Many Yankees fans are fickle.? They don't need actual evidence to support their opinions.? They percieve something to be true, so it's true....to them.? But from every number you can look at, A-rod is a benefit to that team.? And he just proved it, again, the other night with that blast to beat Atlanta.? Maybe that will change perception, a bit, in the stands.

[COMAMOTIVE]

Hey comative or whatever your name is...the point of this thread is that some selfish guy (you) was not happy with a-rod's performance. I don't blame you, none of us yankee fans have been happy with his performance.

However, I was waiting, waiting and waiting for a-rod to do something big (and he did) just so I could rub it in your face.

BTW, you do know that in order for a-rod to be traded, he has to ask to be traded. And what team besides maybe the red sox would have the money to take on that contract?

Oh and don't be suprised if:

A) A rod is still in a yankee uniform by the time September rolls around.
B) A rod ends up putting monster numbers by the end of the year.

I'll tell you what the point of this thread was ( For the 5th time) - It's not working. No matter what he does, the fans treat him like a dog.  No problem with you waiting for him to do something big, and then rubbing it in , I actually expected that. But, again, I did'nt start this thread with a title that says " A-Rod sucks" or
Comamotive hates A-Rod.  It was more or less about the fan reaction ( which I see up-close)

To answer your questions - Yeah, I understand he has to ask to be traded. That was the point. And the money thing, How many times do I have to respond to you to tell you that I understand there are only a few teams that can handle the $$$- I think I actually said it from the start


a) Yes, he will be in uniform in September. Never said he would'nt - I said after the season he may just consider a change and the Yanks MAY listen

b)  Of course he will put up monster numbers.


Read the damn threads before you make up crap about what the thread is actually saying.  If I'm wrong, please quote any of my words to me where I ever said he will not put up Monster numbers or that he WILL be out of a Yankee uniform by September , and I will sincerely apologize.  Good luck with that Markus.

By the way, to further my point, even though he had that huge hit the other day - This is what will happen when he comes to bat tonight - I'll be there and I will be happy to report to you -  He will get cheered very loudly. But, if he get's out with men on base - they will reign down boos on his ass just like it was Tuesday - especially since it's the Mets.  This is a reality pal, face it. This is not going to go away for the guy untill he wins a playoff game against Boston or a World Series game, with a walk-off.      Later dude

[oldgunsfan]

Whatever pilferk

All's I know that whenever I watch A-rod when the Yanks are trailing I'm upset with him the majority of the time

I have 2 nicknames ofr him and there not "Mr March" or Mr June

They are Mr 6-4-3 and Mr? (I wish i could do a reverse K to signify striking out looking)

Yeah i watch the Yankees, and have been a fan since birth......

And sure, you can say his numbers aren't "empty"? it just seems he drives most of hi runs in and hits most of his HRs when the game has been decided are there is a big lead or deficit.

Who would you rather have up in a tie game, bottom of the ninth, with Damon on 2nd, Jeter or A-Rod?? 99.9% of the people that are Yankees fans that I asked this question to answered the SS.

[COMAMOTIVE]

Whatever pilferk

All's I know that whenever I watch A-rod when the Yanks are trailing I'm upset with him the majority of the time

I have 2 nicknames ofr him and there not "Mr March" or Mr June

They are Mr 6-4-3 and Mr? (I wish i could do a reverse K to signify striking out looking)

Yeah i watch the Yankees, and have been a fan since birth......

And sure, you can say his numbers aren't "empty"? it just seems he drives most of hi runs in and hits most of his HRs when the game has been decided are there is a big lead or deficit.

Who would you rather have up in a tie game, bottom of the ninth, with Damon on 2nd, Jeter or A-Rod?? 99.9% of the people that are Yankees fans that I asked this question to answered the SS.

Trying to reason with a dude that sports Batman as his logo is harder than you think

[oldgunsfan]

  that gave me a good laugh

[smishkey]

I hate the yankees, especially  PAY-ROD.  I will concede that playing in NY and that enormous contract are a lethal combination that few, if any players could ever live up to.  Look at my beloved Carlos Beltran, last year, bad year, first year of big contract and he stunk up the joint.  It's a huge weight.  But PAY-ROD is an egotistical jackass and I hate his Hamburger Helper batting gloves, so he gets NO sympathy from me.  The Evil Empire that is the Yankees is finally starting to crack.  The team has no chemistry, or character, too many big egos.  Fuck 'em!

[Cornell]

Woo hoo A-Rod rocks!    Beautiful grand slam just when the Yanks needed it! 

[COMAMOTIVE]

Woo hoo A-Rod rocks!? ? Beautiful grand slam just when the Yanks needed it!?

This is the point of the thread!  He's not deserving of the rough treatment. He single-handedly won that game yesterday. I give him 2 or 3 times tops, at home, getting out in a big spot before the boos start again. It's a shame.

[GeorgeSteele]

Woo hoo A-Rod rocks!? ? Beautiful grand slam just when the Yanks needed it!?

This is the point of the thread!? He's not deserving of the rough treatment. He single-handedly won that game yesterday. I give him 2 or 3 times tops, at home, getting out in a big spot before the boos start again. It's a shame.

For the record, they still would have won without his 7 RBI. 

Congrats on the series win and enjoy it because the division race with Boston will be brutal.  I'm content to have the Mets go back to beating the crap out of the NL East.

[cotis]

I was at the game against the Braves when A-Rod hit the walkoff, as well as last nights game versus the Mets. (Season tickets rule ...too bad we have to split them with neighbors )

But after he hit the walkoff, some people around me and while walking out were saying things to the tune of "Oh woo hoo he comes in and hits ONE homerun and wins it, big whoop, he'll just suck it up next time a big spot comes up." I mean come on. I'm a huge Yankee fan and I know A-Rod hasn't been the SUPERSTAR HOME-RUN everytime player that some and most people want, but he's clutch, no matter what people say. He may not come through everytime, but he'll come through enough times.

At the game last night vs. the Mets, people were booing and giving him shit from where I was sitting after he grounded out in the 5th inning I believe? They were yelling "boooooo!! go back to texas!!" But then again, I'm sure the rain delay plus 15 beers didn't help.

Fact is, IMO, A-Rod isn't going to be freaking jacked up 60+HR each year man. He'll hit between 35-45 a year and hit around .300 and drive in over 120 RBI in his years as a Yankee. Steve Phillips was saying on ESPN how the Yankees may look to deal him, and I just think no matter the struggles he's having, he's still having a good year. I just don't see Georgie dealing his boy A-Rod who is bringing a bunch of people to the park into the seats.

[pilferk]

Whatever pilferk

All's I know that whenever I watch A-rod when the Yanks are trailing I'm upset with him the majority of the time

I have 2 nicknames ofr him and there not "Mr March" or Mr June

They are Mr 6-4-3 and Mr? (I wish i could do a reverse K to signify striking out looking)

Yeah i watch the Yankees, and have been a fan since birth......

And sure, you can say his numbers aren't "empty"? it just seems he drives most of hi runs in and hits most of his HRs when the game has been decided are there is a big lead or deficit.

Who would you rather have up in a tie game, bottom of the ninth, with Damon on 2nd, Jeter or A-Rod?? 99.9% of the people that are Yankees fans that I asked this question to answered the SS.

Trying to reason with a dude that sports Batman as his logo is harder than you think

A good point....

if it weren't for the fact I'm the only one using actual numbers, and not anecdotal garbage.

If anyone were trying to "reason" with me, I'd listen.  But spewing fallacies (2%....??), or basing an opinion on...well...nothing of much substance...isn't reason.

[pilferk]

Whatever pilferk

All's I know that whenever I watch A-rod when the Yanks are trailing I'm upset with him the majority of the time

I have 2 nicknames ofr him and there not "Mr March" or Mr June

They are Mr 6-4-3 and Mr? (I wish i could do a reverse K to signify striking out looking)

Yeah i watch the Yankees, and have been a fan since birth......

And sure, you can say his numbers aren't "empty"? it just seems he drives most of hi runs in and hits most of his HRs when the game has been decided are there is a big lead or deficit.

Who would you rather have up in a tie game, bottom of the ninth, with Damon on 2nd, Jeter or A-Rod?? 99.9% of the people that are Yankees fans that I asked this question to answered the SS.

Being a "fan since birth" doesn't mean you know baseball.  I know (and have known) plenty of Yankees fans who don't actually REALLY understand the game.  It goes with being the most popular (and, conversely, the most hated) baseball team on the planet.

Using words like "seems" and "I'm upset with him the majority of the time", once again, speaks to basing your opinion on anecdotal information.   I gave you numbers.  There's lots of other numbers out there.  They all say the same thing: A-Rods repuation, and the way some of the fans treat him, is pretty much unfounded and not based on reality.  Not to mention you've had 2 pretty good examples, in the past week, of him having "important" homeruns and hits.

 And saying you're upset with a hitter "the majority of the time" You do realize that hitters DON'T HIT much more than 30% (and that's a good average) of the time.  And an OBP hovering around .450, which is considered pretty good, also means THEY FAIL TO GET ON BASE MORE THAN HALF THE TIME?  You can't hit .300, 40+ homers, and average 120+ RBI's for your career (and with the Yanks, too) and put up "mostly empty numbers".  It's statistically impossible.  Of course, don't let reality sway your opinion.... 

As for who I'd rather have up, it would depend.  How far behind am I? 1 run? 2? How many outs?  Who's pitching?  Rightie or Leftie? What's Jeter's avg vs the pitcher?  What's A-Rods?  How are the fielders playing?  Day game or night game?  What's their BA and OBP over the last 10 games? Slugging %? I could go ON and ON and ON and ON.  And my final answer is: I'd weigh all the numbers, just like Torre does, and make a decision based on the actual numbers.

 Oh, and to be completely honest...right now, it very likely would be neither one (especially if the lead was more than 1 run)....lets see if you can guess who it would be.  It's a pretty easy call, actually, given the numbers of the last year.

Of course, that's just one big aside.  Because the fact of the matter is, if I had a choice, I'd want BOTH Jeter AND A-Rod in my lineup.  Because there is no argument on the planet that you're a better ballclub without one of them.  And since they're both on the same team, playing different positions, it's not really all that necessary to compare them.  A better question would be: What other AL 3rd baseman would you rather have hitting in the above situation.  And I can't think of a one.

[pilferk]

I hate the yankees, especially? PAY-ROD.? I will concede that playing in NY and that enormous contract are a lethal combination that few, if any players could ever live up to.? Look at my beloved Carlos Beltran, last year, bad year, first year of big contract and he stunk up the joint.? It's a huge weight.? But PAY-ROD is an egotistical jackass and I hate his Hamburger Helper batting gloves, so he gets NO sympathy from me.? The Evil Empire that is the Yankees is finally starting to crack.? The team has no chemistry, or character, too many big egos.? Fuck 'em!

Actually, the problem is they're missing about 1/3 their team right now, at least on offense. ?The top half of the order (where "the big egos" are) has been doing pretty well (witness their BA, RBI's, and, for the power hitters, their HR total). ?The bottom half? ?Not so much. ?Which is where Sheffiled, Cano, and Matsui would be shoring things up, one would think.

Also notice that, since Cano went down, the offence (with a notable exception vs the Mets) has been much less explosive and much less potent. ?That injury (thankfully, it looks like it's not too serious) seemed to do what the injuries to Sheffield and Matsui couldn't do: crippled the Yanks. ?Well, that and the bottom part of the order stopped overachieving. ?The loss of that one last threatening bat made the bottom of the order almost a complete non-factor. You get past Posada and....well...what's left? ?It gives the opposing pitchers a nice break that may, or may not, be broken up by Bernie.

Add all that to a rotation that has been the definition of inconsistent (with the exception of Moose and, arguably, Wang), and a bullpen that's been lackluster and overused....and you have a recipe for disaster. ?The all-star break couldn't come at a better time for them, but...they're probably going to have to deal to shore up Chacon and Wright's spots, at least (and it's gonna be pricey because nobody wants to help the yanks). ?I almost wonder if, with the rash of injuries, it wouldn't be a better idea to field the best team you can this year, but lower expectations (meaning....I know, sacrelidge according to The Boss....no play-offs) and reload next year with Matsui and Sheffield back....but we know that won't happen.

But I think it's tough to blame the teams woes on anything other than the above....especially the factors you name. ?And I think it's a bit early to sound the death nell for "The Evil Empire". ?There's some pretty encouraging signs...one of which is you're still in a penant race DESPITE having 3 big bats on the DL.

[Markus Asraelius]

Oh and just like that, a-rod is now hitting .291 on the season. Had 3 hits his last game but the yankees didn't even really show up last night. Bottom Line: I think A-rod's back. He had that walk-off homer aganist the braves, that rbi single saturday aganist the mets in what was originally a close game and 2 homers and 7 rbi's on sunday aganist the mets. I think he's back.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

19-1

'nuff said.

[oldgunsfan]

Witness Melky's grand slam

Pilferk.....all I know is A-Rod didn't hit in 2004 when Boston was winning 4 straight after falling behind 3-0.....neither did Matsui, Sheffield, or anyone else for that mater but when your the best player in the game and making $25mil a year I guess your judged a bit differently

whether it's fair or not, it comes with the territory

don't ask me to quote the numbers...I'm lazy and don't feel like looking them up

for grins

I looked them up:
Games 1-3 6-14
games 4-7, 2-17 & 2RBIs

Of course, looking them up brought back really bad memories

[Cornell]

Woo hoo A-Rod rocks!? ? Beautiful grand slam just when the Yanks needed it!?

This is the point of the thread!? He's not deserving of the rough treatment. He single-handedly won that game yesterday.

I know it is and I agree! 

[pilferk]

Witness Melky's grand slam

Pilferk.....all I know is A-Rod didn't hit in 2004 when Boston was winning 4 straight after falling behind 3-0.....neither did Matsui, Sheffield, or anyone else for that mater but when your the best player in the game and making $25mil a year I guess your judged a bit differently

whether it's fair or not, it comes with the territory

don't ask me to quote the numbers...I'm lazy and don't feel like looking them up

for grins

I looked them up:
Games 1-3 6-14
games 4-7, 2-17 & 2RBIs

Of course, looking them up brought back really bad memories

Yup, he had a bad 4 games...after having a stellar first 3. As you point out, though....so did everyone else.  INCLUDING Jeter, I might add.  And you leave out the fact that, in round one vs the Twins...he hit .421, with 1 HR, in only 19 AB.  Those are pretty respectable numbers.  So, in total, for the playoffs, he hit...what.... about .320?  Yeah, I see why you'd be upset with his '04 performance...a year he was batting in an uncomfortable, and usually unproductive, 2nd spot in the order....behind an atypical lead off man in Jeter.

Now, you wanna get all over him for his '05 playoff performance?  I'm right there with you.  He stunk the place up.  He was awful.  Terrible.  And THAT is where, I think, some of the Yankee faithful decided they were not going to like A-Rod no matter what he does (barring winning them a WS with a walk off...and maybe not even then).  Me?  I don't think it's fair to judge his merit, and what he brings to the team, on a few...hell, VERY few....bad games.

As for being "judged differently", that's my point.  That's not fair.  The question is: Is he earning his paycheck?  Is he worth being the highest paid player in the game?  Well, in '05...he was the AL MVP.  So.....that speaks for itself, bad playoffs or not.  And this year?  His numbers are pretty close to last years, on a projection basis....AND they include the numbers of his awful June slump.  Of course, over the past 10 games he's hitting something like .600 (not including last night...) with 4 or 5 HR's....which always helps.  We'll have to see how (or if) he handles himself in the playoffs this year.  If they make it (and, if they do, like last year, A-rod will probably be a big reason why)...I wouldn't bet against him.

So, hey, if you wanna judge A-Rod based on 4 bad games...rather than the overall numbers he's put up since becoming a Yankee....hey, more power to ya.  I think the other 400+ games, and the numbers generated while playing in them, is a bit more "stable" of basis.  He puts up stellar numbers, year after year, after year, after year.  That's reality.  I hope he remains a Yankee for a very, very, very long time.

[pilferk]

Oh, and on the Melky grand slam...

Like I said: The Yanks are at their most productive, offensively, when the bottom of the order is actually productive and "dangerous".   Last night was a good example of that.

And I hope Damon's "soreness" isn't too serious.  That's all they need...another OF to go down to injuries.