Where do morals come from?

[Elrothiel]

Its all in the mind.

Every living thing has morals.

We are born with them.

Some just have a stronger moral sense than others.

[Sakib]

na you cant just be born with something

[Elrothiel]

You're born with a brain aren't ya!

[Ellroy]

As someone said earlier, morals probably come from a necessity to keep society functioning. If everyone steals from everyone else society can't function. If everyone kills everyone else society can't function. One day someone thinks "We better stop this killing thing before everyone is dead," but it takes a strong leader to stand up and say what most of the people are thinking. Morals can't come from nature as not all societies and people have the same morals, they must first arise from certain situations and then later generations are taught (through parents, religions, etc.) these new morals. Sometimes (most times probably) these get muddled and changed throughout the years. Sometimes the teaching of these morals becomes so screwed up that the original morals are lost (or at least the point of the original morals are lost) and twisted versions of these morals are now taught. Such is my opinion anyway.

[Chelle]

Its all in the mind.

Every living thing has morals.

We are born with them.

Some just have a stronger moral sense than others.

We're not born with morals.? Children learn from their environments what's "wrong" and "right" and try to adhere to the rules out of fear (and hopefully understand eventually).

 Maybe it is a little of both though, nature and nurture...

[misterID]

I think everyone is born with morals, depending on what your exact def. of morals are. Morals come from your conscience. No one was taught to feel guilt, loyalty or value human life, that's your basic instinct, just like no one was taught how to lie, you just do. Even tarzan had morals and he lived with the fucking apes.

[Ellroy]

I think everyone is born with morals, depending on what your exact def. of morals are. Morals come from your conscience. No one was taught to feel guilt, loyalty or value human life, that's your basic instinct, just like no one was taught how to lie, you just do. Even tarzan had morals and he lived with the fucking apes.

Good post. I guess if we do really want to talk about this we should agree upon some kind of definition for morals. Of course, that's not a terribly easy thing to do. It's like trying to define virtue or good or something. Bringing up Tarzan is interesting though. He lived without human contact and turned out to be a good person, but the kids in Lord of the Flies grew up being taught right and wrong, etc. and all but a few of them lost their morals and turned into beasts until the sight of an adult at the end brought them back to their senses. I know these are both fictional, but I think they both bring up interesting, yet varying thoughts on the matter.

[Elrothiel]

Yes, but I think that the kids in Lord of the Flies were corrupted BEFORE they were stranded... by adults... by school... because the one thing every kid yearns for in school is to be popular. They just didn't have a chance to show their corruption until left to their own devices in an inhabited and uncivilized jungle.

Adults cause corruption, but they also restrain it.

If those kids had never ever come in contact with adults, they would have been wild, but they would have had morals.

That's what I think anyway.

[mikegiuliana]

I think morals come from you too, if you care and have a heart you won't do certain things.. I think you're born with certain morals..

[The Dog]

morals are all nurture if you ask me. our most basic of instincts are to eat, sleep, fuck and stay out of harms way.

[Neemo]

well...also parents have a hand in teaching right and wrong....eg... I usually defer to older people and always say please and thankyou, it's just how i was brought up...I mean i did develope my own as time passed but in the beginning your parents define what is right and wrong...even teachers or whoever you may look up to they all have a hand in defining your morals...even society influences morals, as the boundaries are pushed i think that our limits are extended.

[Ellroy]

Yes, but I think that the kids in Lord of the Flies were corrupted BEFORE they were stranded... by adults... by school... because the one thing every kid yearns for in school is to be popular. They just didn't have a chance to show their corruption until left to their own devices in an inhabited and uncivilized jungle.

Adults cause corruption, but they also restrain it.

If those kids had never ever come in contact with adults, they would have been wild, but they would have had morals.

That's what I think anyway.

If indeed this is the case, then the corruption needs to begin somewhere. For the sake of argument I'll agree for a moment and say people are born with morals. If this is the case then how do these morals become corrupted? Some people must either not be born with morals at all or be born with lower morals than the rest of humanity. Are these people greater in number than, equal in number to, or less in number than those with morals/strong morals? If they are less in number (which seems to be the case as the world is still standing and functioning relatively well) than they can not have a great affect on the rest of humanity, for they would not be implant their morals in someone with strong morals, thus no one would be capable of being corrupted. Perhaps we can say that everyone is born with some sort of capacity for morals. These morals are then taught to us or learned through experience. However, saying this is like saying we are not born with morals, which I feel is not something you would agree with.
          Also, if the children were corrupted before they were stranded yet didn't do anything terrible before they were stranded (I think it's safe to assume the murders of Simon and Piggy on the island were the first murders they commited) that would suggest that the adults, establishment, etc. kept the children in check. Perhaps they did corrupt the children as well, but they kept this corruption from causing the children to do anything bad. As for children wishing to be popular in school that is not something that adults teach. That is something that happens on its own. No one tells a child it is desirable to be liked, you just want to be liked. But this is probably nurture as well for as a baby you see that it is good to be around others because they feed you, pay attention to you, etc. Of course the boys in the book are English which means the book could be about the repression in English society being detrimental to the health of a person. You can't be so restrained or you will abandon this to the extreme if given the proper opportunity. I think the book is probably a bit of this and a bit of discussion on human nature.

[Sakib]

You're born with a brain aren't ya!

something created are brain, didnt they?

[SLCPUNK]

You're born with a brain aren't ya!

something created are brain, didnt they?

Years of evolution............

[misterID]

I think everyone is born with morals, depending on what your exact def. of morals are. Morals come from your conscience. No one was taught to feel guilt, loyalty or value human life, that's your basic instinct, just like no one was taught how to lie, you just do. Even tarzan had morals and he lived with the fucking apes.

Good post. I guess if we do really want to talk about this we should agree upon some kind of definition for morals. Of course, that's not a terribly easy thing to do. It's like trying to define virtue or good or something. Bringing up Tarzan is interesting though. He lived without human contact and turned out to be a good person, but the kids in Lord of the Flies grew up being taught right and wrong, etc. and all but a few of them lost their morals and turned into beasts until the sight of an adult at the end brought them back to their senses. I know these are both fictional, but I think they both bring up interesting, yet varying thoughts on the matter.

I didn't think anyone would pick up on my Tarzan reference

Great point about Lord Of The Flies. the thing is, even though the kids were falling into a mob mentality, which actually changes your train of thought, thinking ext...and the fact they were sinking into very primal behavior, they still knew the difference between right and wrong. They knew what they were doing was wrong, but mob mentality, and the fact they were so young, plus they were military school cadets; strict supression lead to the way they reacted when they realized there was no one there to tell them what to do. Kind of like the 60's free love explosion from repression...  The end of the film version shows this in the most profound way when they discover the adults have come to rescue them and they burst into tears, that they knew what was right and wrong.

Knowing the difference between right and wrong is what I consider morals.

[Mandy.]

I think morals come from you too, if you care and have a heart you won't do certain things.. I think you're born with certain morals..

Best post I've read in this topic. 

[Jim]

I think that morals come from awareness. People that act morally wrong do so for one of two reasons; either they are unaware of the pain that they will cause, or else they are aware of any harm that they are going to do and as such act in a way that will cause the most anguish. Somebody who commits murder on the grounds of the first does so out of ignorance; he who commits it on the grounds of the second is morally aware of their wrongdoing.

There is more to awareness than simply knowing the consequence of an action. There is a difference between stealing, and stealing and being aware of the nature of the aftermath. In some instances, in order to be morally aware you have to engage with the consequence on a personal level.

Yes, morals are beaten into us as kids, and that is why there are few here who would be willing to kill a man tommorow. I have no doubt that those who are not taught moral standard through their upbrining can still learn, because it is part of what makes us human. While the vast majority of us are almost programed into recognising right from wrong, others will learn from experience. While a lot of the morals that we would live by do come from our parents, this is not moral origin and is only half of the story. Saying that our morals come from our parents, while true, is an almost evasive answer; it is like asking "where do apples come from?" and being told that "they come from shop." The answer is that they grow. Morals that we have, we have because of our awareness of other living things and of cause and effect. It is this which seperates us from animals, and it is our interaction with consequence that not only seperates us from animals but builds the fundamental morals that we believe in.

Morals can be taught, they can be passed on or they can be learnt, but it is the extent of our understanding that truly determines our engagement with them.

I think that it was Socrates who said that evil is bred out of ignorance; if we were omnipotent, if we were able to see all things, then we could not help but do good.

[Ellroy]

I think everyone is born with morals, depending on what your exact def. of morals are. Morals come from your conscience. No one was taught to feel guilt, loyalty or value human life, that's your basic instinct, just like no one was taught how to lie, you just do. Even tarzan had morals and he lived with the fucking apes.

Good post. I guess if we do really want to talk about this we should agree upon some kind of definition for morals. Of course, that's not a terribly easy thing to do. It's like trying to define virtue or good or something. Bringing up Tarzan is interesting though. He lived without human contact and turned out to be a good person, but the kids in Lord of the Flies grew up being taught right and wrong, etc. and all but a few of them lost their morals and turned into beasts until the sight of an adult at the end brought them back to their senses. I know these are both fictional, but I think they both bring up interesting, yet varying thoughts on the matter.

I didn't think anyone would pick up on my Tarzan reference

Great point about Lord Of The Flies. the thing is, even though the kids were falling into a mob mentality, which actually changes your train of thought, thinking ext...and the fact they were sinking into very primal behavior, they still knew the difference between right and wrong. They knew what they were doing was wrong, but mob mentality, and the fact they were so young, plus they were military school cadets; strict supression lead to the way they reacted when they realized there was no one there to tell them what to do. Kind of like the 60's free love explosion from repression...? The end of the film version shows this in the most profound way when they discover the adults have come to rescue them and they burst into tears, that they knew what was right and wrong.

Knowing the difference between right and wrong is what I consider morals.

You are absolutely right. I didn't take that into account in my first post about Lord of the Flies and I really only briefly touched on at the end of my second. But what is right and wrong? lol,

Great points in your post as well Jim. I completely agree that morals come from experience. We are taught morals that have come out of the experiences of others and perhaps we can never really know what these things mean unless we experience them ourselves, which brings up that old proverb "Do unto others," etc. Perhaps what truly makes us human is not our awareness of these consequences (as I just watched this disturbing show on elephants and how similar they are to people in the way they think and how they react to events) but our empathy, as Phil Dick suggests in "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?". If that were to be the case then I suggest that sociopaths are not really human at all, or at best severely defective humans. If my understanding is correct, they see the pain that they cause to others, but they just don't care.

[Jim]

Aye, I completely agree. Awareness isn't enough, it is because of our empathy that we are able to appreciate the effect from that awareness. I've never read that book. Maybe I will.

[Sakib]

You're born with a brain aren't ya!

something created are brain, didnt they?

Years of evolution............

nope. Wrong answer. How can we evolve? Doesnt make any sense