Gas customers rage about pump prices

[mikegiuliana]

Not all drivers, just seems like the suv is the new cell phone or something, it's like in style.. I don't care about how much gas it takes in or whatever.. if someone has a family then good with an suv..

[Gunner80]

People in America need to STOP driving gas guzzlers period.

what do you consider a "gas guzzler" - anything below...

25 mpg? 20 mpg? 15 mpg?

just curious.

Anything under 15 in the city and 32 on the highway.

i agree with 15 in the city. but 32 doesn't coincide with it. any car that gets 15 in the city is only gonna get about 20-25 on the highway. and there's alot of midsize cars that only get about 25-30 on the highway. so i think 32 is high.

My 88' 1/2 Ford Escort gets about 34 miles to the gallon on the highway.

Driving a SUV in the city is the biggest waste of gasoline period.

[SLCPUNK]

that's cool. i hope you have one and i hope you enjoy it. i could care less if a vehicle "hauls ass" or not (whatever that means).

never did i say we couldn't survive without them.

and wagons aren't even THAT much better on gas. so the difference in cost is minimal. and many active families are happy to pay the small extra cost for a major convenience.

I don't own one. But my point is that you can have a sporty car (station wagon), that is 4 wheel drive , reliable and good on gas that get s good MPG NOW. The SUV is the ultimate waste of gas and only creates more demand/waste which adds to driving the price of gas up. It also pollutes twice as much and is dangerous to other drivers. Contrary to urban myth it is not a safer vehicle either.

Subaru Wagon would wallop an SUV on gas to doubt about it.

I have two kids, two dogs, and pile it all in either one of our sedans. I have carried ladders on top, sheetrock on top, tile, paint, chlorine, boxes of nails, you name it, and it has been just fine. I have traveled in snow, up mountains, across the country and it was fine.


The majority of people who drive these SUVs do not need them. I have lost count of how many times I see one driver in these things. STOOPID, wasteful, unnecessary, and arrogant.

[sandman]

that's cool. i hope you have one and i hope you enjoy it. i could care less if a vehicle "hauls ass" or not (whatever that means).

never did i say we couldn't survive without them.

and wagons aren't even THAT much better on gas. so the difference in cost is minimal. and many active families are happy to pay the small extra cost for a major convenience.

I don't own one. But my point is that you can have a sporty car (station wagon), that is 4 wheel drive , reliable and good on gas that get s good MPG NOW. The SUV is the ultimate waste of gas and only creates more demand/waste which adds to driving the price of gas up. It also pollutes twice as much and is dangerous to other drivers. Contrary to urban myth it is not a safer vehicle either.

Subaru Wagon would wallop an SUV on gas to doubt about it.

I have two kids, two dogs, and pile it all in either one of our sedans. I have carried ladders on top, sheetrock on top, tile, paint, chlorine, boxes of nails, you name it, and it has been just fine. I have traveled in snow, up mountains, across the country and it was fine.


The majority of people who drive these SUVs do not need them. I have lost count of how many times I see one driver in these things. STOOPID, wasteful, unnecessary, and arrogant.

you totally ignored my points. people like cargo space. and are willing to pay for it. you drive a sedan......do you NEED a sedan? no. why not drive a tiny little toyota that gets 40 mpg?

i'll tell you why. convenience. whether you admit it or not. the added space of a sedan is convenient for you and your family. so to call others "stoopid" and "arrogant" an even bigger car is hypocritical.

you have a problem with one driver in a SUV??? i'm sure you realize that's not a very intelligent comment.

are owners of minivans arrogant?

and check the stats....suburu wagons are not necessarily better on gas than SUVs. 

[SLCPUNK]

you totally ignored my points. people like cargo space. and are willing to pay for it. you drive a sedan......do you NEED a sedan? no. why not drive a tiny little toyota that gets 40 mpg?

i'll tell you why. convenience. whether you admit it or not. the added space of a sedan is convenient for you and your family. so to call others "stoopid" and "arrogant" an even bigger car is hypocritical.

you have a problem with one driver in a SUV??? i'm sure you realize that's not a very intelligent comment.

are owners of minivans arrogant?

and check the stats....suburu wagons are not necessarily better on gas than SUVs. 

One of my cars is a Camry that gets awesome MPG.

Convenience is one thing, but the majority of people who drive these things never need the four wheel drive, or the "convenient" space. Most people drive them as a status symbol-period. You can try to sell me on all the same crap everybody else does, but I don't buy it. There was a great article interviewing some of the big car manufactures who laughed at the people who claimed the "needed" these big shit boxes. They realized people would buy whatever they were told to buy, and they were laughing all the way to the bank. Laughing at the people that gave them that huge profit margin.

Yes, I do have a problem with SUV drivers: They pollute twice as much, they are more dangerous to other drivers, they are gas hogs, and the majority of people do not need them. To me, this is arrogant behavior.

Ford Explorer 8 cylinder 4x4 according to specs gets 14/18 mpg driving.

Subaru 4 cylinder 4x4 gets 22/28 mpg.

Mazda 5 Minivan gets 22/28 mpg

Car and driver said this about minivans:

Car and Driver magazine say that minivans are better choices than SUVs for many families, with roomier interiors and better fuel economy. Plus, minivans are much less prone to rollover accidents that plague some SUVs. According to the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, minivans are ten times safer than SUVs in a crash, due in part to their lower centers of gravity.

[sandman]

you continue to make blanket, stereotypical comments about SUV owners, and you don't even realize how small-minded that is. so sad.

you conveniently picked the worst SUV for gas mileage. nice work. but interesting - it's an 8 MPG difference. and you drive a camry, which only gets 22 MPG in the city. yet there's plenty of sedans (corolla, civic) that get 30 MPG in the city. an 8 MPG improvement over your camry.

conclusion: you're a fraud. if you truly believed the shit you throw out there, you'd buy the most efficient car.

so what's your reply to the corolla owners (like myself), who accuse you of being a "gas hog", "dangerous", "arrogant", and polluting twice as much?? 

[SLCPUNK]

you continue to make blanket, stereotypical comments about SUV owners, and you don't even realize how small-minded that is. so sad.

you conveniently picked the worst SUV for gas mileage. nice work. but interesting - it's an 8 MPG difference. and you drive a camry, which only gets 22 MPG in the city. yet there's plenty of sedans (corolla, civic) that get 30 MPG in the city. an 8 MPG improvement over your camry.

conclusion: you're a fraud. if you truly believed the shit you throw out there, you'd buy the most efficient car.

so what's your reply to the corolla owners (like myself), who accuse you of being a "gas hog", "dangerous", "arrogant", and polluting twice as much?? 

I picked a mid level SUV. I could have picked a much larger one, hell I could have picked a hummer. Even if I stuck by your unrealistic 8 mpg "difference" the amount added up per tank/per week/month/year would be rather significant.

I bought the most efficient car for the life I live. I could have bought more, but the Camry suites me just fine thanks.

My reply to you? You are without merit. It gets great MPG, puts out low emissions, is one of the safest sedans on the market, and is a conservative family car. Light years away from the shitboxes called SUVs and the suckers who drive them.

[sandman]

you continue to make blanket, stereotypical comments about SUV owners, and you don't even realize how small-minded that is. so sad.

you conveniently picked the worst SUV for gas mileage. nice work. but interesting - it's an 8 MPG difference. and you drive a camry, which only gets 22 MPG in the city. yet there's plenty of sedans (corolla, civic) that get 30 MPG in the city. an 8 MPG improvement over your camry.

conclusion: you're a fraud. if you truly believed the shit you throw out there, you'd buy the most efficient car.

so what's your reply to the corolla owners (like myself), who accuse you of being a "gas hog", "dangerous", "arrogant", and polluting twice as much???

I picked a mid level SUV. I could have picked a much larger one, hell I could have picked a hummer. Even if I stuck by your unrealistic 8 mpg "difference" the amount added up per tank/per week/month/year would be rather significant.

I bought the most efficient car for the life I live. I could have bought more, but the Camry suites me just fine thanks.

My reply to you? You are without merit. It gets great MPG, puts out low emissions, is one of the safest sedans on the market, and is a conservative family car. Light years away from the shitboxes called SUVs and the suckers who drive them.

but you're a fraud. if you truly cared about the shit you talk about, you would drive a smaller car. one that gets 8-10 MPG better than your camry. you could drive a car that gets 32 MPG in the city. but you snub your nose at those small cars and drive a larger car that only gets 22 -24 MPG. why the larger car???

then you criticize people for driving vehicles with MPG similiar to your camry!! (honda cr-v midsize SUV gets the SAME city MPG as the camry). and you don't see the hypocricy in that?

and apparantly you're ok with minivans?? it just doesn't make any sense. it seems like YOU have been brainwashed to believe that all SUV drivers are arrogant, republican, big business, a-holes. but in reality, SUVs just fit the lifestyle of alot of working class families that are on the go all the time. 

and reading your posts over the years, i thought you were someone that was against stereotypes.   

[Cornell]

Some people need a larger car.  I would much rather be driving my little MR2 that I had pre kids, but that just doesn't work for me any longer.  Both of my sons play hockey which require carrying LARGE hockey bags and sticks - they have to fit in the vehicle along with the passengers!

[pilferk]

I don't own one. But my point is that you can have a sporty car (station wagon), that is 4 wheel drive , reliable and good on gas that get s good MPG NOW. The SUV is the ultimate waste of gas and only creates more demand/waste which adds to driving the price of gas up. It also pollutes twice as much and is dangerous to other drivers. Contrary to urban myth it is not a safer vehicle either.

Subaru Wagon would wallop an SUV on gas to doubt about it.

I have two kids, two dogs, and pile it all in either one of our sedans. I have carried ladders on top, sheetrock on top, tile, paint, chlorine, boxes of nails, you name it, and it has been just fine. I have traveled in snow, up mountains, across the country and it was fine.


The majority of people who drive these SUVs do not need them. I have lost count of how many times I see one driver in these things. STOOPID, wasteful, unnecessary, and arrogant.

My Subaru Forester gets about 28 MPG (mostly highway time....I live 60 miles from work, and work in a place where "weather" is not a viable option to take the day off...be the snow 2 inches or 2 feet).?

As SLC says, there ARE fuel efficient AWD SUV options out there, with good passenger capacity.

[sandman]

I don't own one. But my point is that you can have a sporty car (station wagon), that is 4 wheel drive , reliable and good on gas that get s good MPG NOW. The SUV is the ultimate waste of gas and only creates more demand/waste which adds to driving the price of gas up. It also pollutes twice as much and is dangerous to other drivers. Contrary to urban myth it is not a safer vehicle either.

Subaru Wagon would wallop an SUV on gas to doubt about it.

I have two kids, two dogs, and pile it all in either one of our sedans. I have carried ladders on top, sheetrock on top, tile, paint, chlorine, boxes of nails, you name it, and it has been just fine. I have traveled in snow, up mountains, across the country and it was fine.


The majority of people who drive these SUVs do not need them. I have lost count of how many times I see one driver in these things. STOOPID, wasteful, unnecessary, and arrogant.

My Subaru Forester gets about 28 MPG (mostly highway time....I live 60 miles from work, and work in a place where "weather" is not a viable option to take the day off...be the snow 2 inches or 2 feet).?

As SLC says, there ARE fuel efficient AWD SUV options out there, with good passenger capacity.

actually pilferk, you're making my point. i agree, there's lots of great options when purchasing a SUV.

i disagree with PUNK when he says the following:

"Yes, I do have a problem with SUV drivers: They pollute twice as much, they are more dangerous to other drivers, they are gas hogs, and the majority of people do not need them. To me, this is arrogant behavior."

and based on your post, i think you would disagree with this statement as well.

[pilferk]

actually pilferk, you're making my point. i agree, there's lots of great options when purchasing a SUV.

i disagree with PUNK when he says the following:

"Yes, I do have a problem with SUV drivers: They pollute twice as much, they are more dangerous to other drivers, they are gas hogs, and the majority of people do not need them. To me, this is arrogant behavior."

and based on your post, i think you would disagree with this statement as well.

I wasn't disagreeing with either of you, actually.  Just adding a bit of info.....

I don't disagree with SLC's sentiment, either.  Perhaps at the broadness of the assertion (there are fuel efficient SUV's out there...the Forester, the Escape Hybrid, and others), but I do agree with the point that there are many out there who drive fuel guzzlers (and not just SUV's....) for no real good reason. And that those that do so should, at least, have it pointed out to them that they are one of many reasons WHY fuel prices are so high and fuel is becoming more scarce.

 In addition there are a good number of the SUV's out there that DO pollute more than they should (witness the fact some manufacturers HAVE produced low emission SUV's so something can be done about it), aren't safe for other drivers (but that's a matter for the govt safety board to address...until they mandate standard bumper guidelines...nobody is going to change), and some ARE gas hogs (getting as little as 10 to 15 mpg HIGHWAY!).  Those SUV's, and their manufacturers, should be taken to task and, to some extent, their customers SHOULD be, at least, advised of what they're doing to the economy and the environment,.

But the fact is...we're a capitalistic society.  And nothing I say (or SLC says, or you say) is going to make anyone want to downsize their penis extention or societal status symbol strictly on our say so.  And as long as their wallets can pay the bills...they're going to flip the bird to anyone suggesting they should.  Until it becomes chic (or legislated) to care about all that stuff, they won't.  And manufacturers aren't going to change until demand for their product drops off.  The American Way working as intended...

So, in essence...the discussion raging around us about to SUV or not to SUV isn't going to get us very far.

[pilferk]

I was watching "Last Comic Standing" last night and heard the funniest (and pertinent) joke.? It went something like this:

"Ladies, it's your fault gas prices are so high.? Yup, it's true.? You know why?? Because you don't have sex with people who ride busses.? Yup, I know.? I ride the bus, and I never get laid.? You can't get laid if you ride the bus, or even if you ride a Schwinn.?If you have the stink of public transportation on you, girls just lock their knees together. The ladies just won't give it up for you...as soon as they see that bus pass, they're gone.

If you ladies would just start having sex only with? guys who ride the bus, you'd solve the world's fuel problems over night.? Just ask to see a bus pas before you pull up your skirt and drop your panties.? 'Cause if you have sex with the guys riding the bus, more guys will ride the bus.? That's more people in a single vehicle.? That means less gas gets used.? That means we BUY less gas.? And that means demand for oil goes down.? And once the demand for oil goes down, what happens?? That's right, the price goes down.? So, ladies, next time you're standing at the gas pumps bitching about paying 2.99 for a gallon of regular...remeber, it's all your fault."

I laughed my ass off.....It's funny because it's true.

[Butch Français]

jesus they need to come to England we pay the equivilent of $7 per gallon (?0.94 per litre)

and a gas guzzler is less then 20mpg in my eyes

yeah, I did some calculating with dollars and gallons and found out that gas costs $6.50 per gallon here in Norway. stop bitching Americans!

[pilferk]

jesus they need to come to England we pay the equivilent of $7 per gallon (?0.94 per litre)

and a gas guzzler is less then 20mpg in my eyes

yeah, I did some calculating with dollars and gallons and found out that gas costs $6.50 per gallon here in Norway. stop bitching Americans!

BUT you also have a much larger, more convinient, and more developed public transportation system (largely paid for by the increased petrol taxes you pay)? than we have.? You also have much less square mileage to "cover" in crossing your entire country.? AND that higher gas price buys you other govt funded goods and services that we DON'T get (like health care, etc).? And, unless I'm mistaken, you have not seen an approximate 75% to 85% (or more) raise in your gasoline costs over the past 18 to 24 months, with no commesurate cost of living increase in your pay.

Hell, you give me free GOOD health care, free (or greatly reduced cost) exemplary university education for my kids, free (or reduced cost, anyway) GOOD public transportation, GOOD govt funded retirement benefits, and all the other government benefits you get from paying that higher gas price and I'll gladly pay 6 bucks a gallon, too.? I'd make it all back in just my insurance premiums and future tuition costs.

I've gone from spending about 35 dollars a week in fuel costs to approximately 70 dollars a week in fuel costs.? And I'm travelling no more than I was previously, in the same vehicle, and my average mpg is pretty much the same as always..? Do the math.? That's $140 a month more I'm paying for gas.? That, to me, is a pretty sizeable change to a single wage earning family of 4 (soon to be 5), dontcha think?

[sandman]

that's hilarious.

my point is that i hate when people ASSUME that an SUV driver is in it for "status".

obviously, in some cases it is true. but in many cases, it is not.

i drive an SUV. and i hate cars. our second car is a corolla which i plan on keeping until it dies. and i usually drive my beat up 1990 plymouth acclaim.

but when i take trips with the family down the shore, or pull a trailor up the mountains, the SUV comes in handy. i wish the corolla could meet those needs, but unfortunately it cannot. (i hate sending that damn monthly car bill!) ?

[Butch Français]

what the hell are you talking about? where I live, there's 1 bus that leaves here in the morning, and returns in the afternoon. if people that work would take it, they would be late for work, then have to leave early to catch the bus home. it's mostly for schoolkids. so people like me needs a car...thank God Im moving away from this country soon
public transportation is pretty good in the cities here though, but it is in America too!

if you look at Norway from one end to the other, south-west to north-east, it's quite a stretch to drive! but anyway, who does that?
most people around here lives quite a bit away from where they work, me, about 12-13 miles. people live scattered around the mountains and fjords here so there's always some travelling involved when you're going places.

other than having health care provided for here, there really is not much difference from America...well except, it's not just the gas that costs more, everything else does too.
last year, I payed 36% taxes of my $31000 income.
THIS country sucks people! I'd rather live in America.

[pilferk]

that's hilarious.

my point is that i hate when people ASSUME that an SUV driver is in it for "status".

obviously, in some cases it is true. but in many cases, it is not.

i drive an SUV. and i hate cars. our second car is a corolla which i plan on keeping until it dies. and i usually drive my beat up 1990 plymouth acclaim.

but when i take trips with the family down the shore, or pull a trailor up the mountains, the SUV comes in handy. i wish the corolla could meet those needs, but unfortunately it cannot. (i hate sending that damn monthly car bill!) ?

Again, I'm not sure you can say "in many cases, it is not".

There's not statistics that show one way or the other, but given the fact that SUV sales outpace every other vehicle, and you can't really come up with reasonable statistics that show "most" of those sales are need based (as in, in a climate that would require 4WD/AWD...you can garner storage space with extended cab pickups and minivans), I think it's tough to assign a majority in either direction.

I think all we can reasonablely say is that sometimes there is a need, and sometimes there isn't. ?I don't think we can say one side has "more" than the other.

[sandman]

that's hilarious.

my point is that i hate when people ASSUME that an SUV driver is in it for "status".

obviously, in some cases it is true. but in many cases, it is not.

i drive an SUV. and i hate cars. our second car is a corolla which i plan on keeping until it dies. and i usually drive my beat up 1990 plymouth acclaim.

but when i take trips with the family down the shore, or pull a trailor up the mountains, the SUV comes in handy. i wish the corolla could meet those needs, but unfortunately it cannot. (i hate sending that damn monthly car bill!) ?

Again, I'm not sure you can say "in many cases, it is not".

There's not statistics that show one way or the other, but given the fact that SUV sales outpace every other vehicle, and you can't really come up with reasonable statistics that show "most" of those sales are need based (as in, in a climate that would require 4WD/AWD...you can garner storage space with extended cab pickups and minivans), I think it's tough to assign a majority in either direction.

I think all we can reasonablely say is that sometimes there is a need, and sometimes there isn't. ?I don't think we can say one side has "more" than the other.

not saying one side has more. don't read too much into my choice of words ("some" and "many").

obviously, my statement is true......"in many cases, it is not". (not clear why you disagree with that statement.)

and therefore my main point is valid - i.e. it's unfair to assume most SUV drivers are in it for status, since as you point out, it's tough to assign a majority either way.

[pilferk]

what the hell are you talking about? where I live, there's 1 bus that leaves here in the morning, and returns in the afternoon. if people that work would take it, they would be late for work, then have to leave early to catch the bus home. it's mostly for schoolkids. so people like me needs a car...thank God Im moving away from this country soon
public transportation is pretty good in the cities here though, but it is in America too!

if you look at Norway from one end to the other, south-west to north-east, it's quite a stretch to drive! but anyway, who does that?
most people around here lives quite a bit away from where they work, me, about 12-13 miles. people live scattered around the mountains and fjords here so there's always some travelling involved when you're going places.

other than having health care provided for here, there really is not much difference from America...well except, it's not just the gas that costs more, everything else does too.
last year, I payed 36% taxes of my $31000 income.
THIS country sucks people! I'd rather live in America.

Public transport in America is a pale imitation of the Euro and Scandavanian countries systems. ?Trust me. ?There are some exceptions, in the states (and NYC and LA are not one of them), but by and large our public transportation sucks. ?It's old, it's not efficient, it's not reliable, it's not clean, it's not free...it's not a lot of things.

The point about country size is that, by comparison, you have less ground to cover, in general, and less chance to leave your public transportation system in order to travel to and from work. Norway is just a bit bigger than New Mexco, but 70% of the land is not really populated. ?Only about 39000 square miles is actually in active use, with a total population of about 4.6 million (about 1/2 the population of NYC). ?Your population centers typically ARE around the cities (17% in Oslo, alone..30% total if you include Bergen, Stavengar, and Trondheim), and most of your population, in general, has access to a reliable, and good, public transportation system. ?Because the way the contry is configured, you don't HAVE to travel very far, for the average citizen.

12 -13 miles? ?That's considered a short commute by US standards in most parts of the country. I think the average is 20 to 25.

Norway provides a large package of governemnt sponsored programs and "benefits" that the US does not, at the cost of the govt, provide. ?All I'm saying is, when comparing your gas price to that in the US..make sure you subtract that taxes that pay for all those benefits that we DON'T get.

Oh, and for the record, I'd rather live in the States, as well.