Do Bumblefoot and Fortus render Finck obsolete for GnR?

[da_pope]

Fink is like Slash in playing style, but no where near as talented.
His solo's are very basic and he butchers November Rain EVERY FUCKING TIME!

Atleast Ron didn't sweep pick through the outro of NR yesterday like he did at the Hammerstien shows.
That pissed me off.

I really wanna hear Ron's solo during IRS.
That looked intense but the mix was so fucked up I couldn't hear any of it.

[GNR_Green]

Finck's wicked, did you not hear his solo before Nightrain?  Impressed me at least, really cool solo.  If Axl wants 3 guitarists then who the hell am I to argue 

[wells]

1) Yes music is art, but art needs good technique to be art. Do you think that when a child makes a drawing it's art? 
Do you think Robin makes art? 
2) Yes, there are a tons of guys who "give a fuck" about phrasing and bends. For example, you. If you don't know what's its called phrasing and what's its called bends is another thing.
3) Do you really think that I have made an "analysis" about Robin playing??  The technical abilities of Robin are so poor that it's imposible to write more than two words about his playing!!!! 
4) And finally.... My "analysis" is "consequential" because have a consequence. The consequence is put arguments about a reallity. The reallity is that Robin Finck "SUCK" playing lead guitar.
I don't put bad reviews about his composing abilities, I'm not saying he's a bad guy. I'm just saying he's is REALLY BAD playing lead guitar. If you like is just for one reason: "You have BAD TASTE" And the BAD TASTE is derivated from REALLY POOR MUSIC EDUCATION. PERIOD. Begin listening jazz or classical guitar and you will know soon or later what's the meaning of PHRASING.
Now I'm feeling SORRY ABOUT YOU, KID!

Why do you attack me when I'm talking about things that you don't understand?
If you want to talk about who is better or not playing guitar go to music schools now, please!!!

ROBIN FINCK IS PERFECT FOR THE NEW DIRECTION AXL WANTS IN GN'R. HE'S GOOD COMPOSING THIS "KIND OF MUSIC". ANOTHER THING IS THAT HE CAN'T PLAY LEAD GUITAR.
AND ANOTHER THING IS IF THE NEW MUSIC DIRECTION IS GOOD OR NOT.

Oh, my... there goes your expertize... And humiliating other people to cover it. I am not feeling sorry about you, but about me and wasting my time here.

[whiteshark]

@whiteshark

OK. lot of words, but not much to read. I respect all your typings, but don't make it like you are the only expert here. Some things you say take you far away from plain guitar analisys... Your 'phrasing' makes me wonder if you can be objective. Really no hard feelings and I enjoyed reading your post, but most of it is not worth the key presses. Sorry...

I'm going to say it one more time and i hope this will be the last time: The term "phrasing" is not what you are thinking about. It's a music term, it's VERY OBJETIVE and it has to do when good playing (AKA technique). When you say a guitar player is sloppy is also because he has bad phrasing (also because bad hands coordination). POINT.
I'm not want to start a war. I put my post just for the people who would want an objetive point of view. If you don't like it or think is subjetive study music.

[wells]

Fink is like Slash in playing style, but no where near as talented.

Finck has totally different style then Slash. Lets clear things up, I am not saying that Finck is the most technical skilled guy around. He is good. He has his own style, some people like it and some don't.

Finck is Finck.
Fortus is Fortus.
Ron is Ron.

And Slash is Slash.

No need to compare. First 3 are GNR guitar players and the last, but not the least one is VR guitar player.

[wells]

I'm not want to start a war. I put my post just for the people who would want an objetive point of view. If you don't like it or think is subjetive study music.

Assuming I am not / didn't study music, without knowing it for fact is far from objective. But, yeah this is pointless. Peace!

[whiteshark]

Hi, Velimir!

Do you think I'm humiliating someone?
What the hell I'm trying to cover?
There are two guys who begun to talk shit about me when the reallity is that they doesn't know nothing about a thing they are talking about! I mean, music.
I have only talked about bad phrasing and there isn't anybody who knows about guitar playing who can argue this!

[justincrowe]

Please never put Robin in the same sentence as Slash and John Frusciante cause he is nowhere on that level.

i never said he's on the same level... i simply pointed out he's going for the same feel as those guys, and that i personally dig it.

[whiteshark]

I'm not want to start a war. I put my post just for the people who would want an objetive point of view. If you don't like it or think is subjetive study music.

Assuming I am not / didn't study music, without knowing it for fact is far from objective. But, yeah this is pointless. Peace!

English is not my first lenguage, so please, can you clarify this to me?
Thanks and peace!

[wells]

Hi, Velimir!

Do you think I'm humiliating someone?
What the hell I'm trying to cover?
There are two guys who begun to talk shit about me when the reallity is that they doesn't know nothing about a thing they are talking about! I mean, music.
I have only talked about bad phrasing and there isn't anybody who knows about guitar playing who can argue this!

Whiteshark,
I understand. They talked shit about you and you talk shit about them. No hard feelings, but please understand that things are not black and white. You keep using 'phrasing' as something you know all about or at least you put it that way. We can talk art in many different ways. I would never go that far to judge someone's 'phrasing' or anything else without knowing that person and even then I would not judge, but only give my opinion. As a musician you should have the wide picture... I said it many times: stage setup, monitor loudness and many other things can interefere with one playing guitar. Seeing you didn't take all this in account I doubt your objectivness.

And English is not my primary language too... You made a statement saying I should go and study music not knowing anything about me. That's all. Nothing personal. Lets take it to PM's if we need to continue this.

Once again, peace!

[whiteshark]

Hi, Velimir!

Do you think I'm humiliating someone?
What the hell I'm trying to cover?
There are two guys who begun to talk shit about me when the reallity is that they doesn't know nothing about a thing they are talking about! I mean, music.
I have only talked about bad phrasing and there isn't anybody who knows about guitar playing who can argue this!

Whiteshark,
I understand. They talked shit about you and you talk shit about them. No hard feelings, but please understand that things are not black and white. You keep using 'phrasing' as something you know all about or at least you put it that way. We can talk art in many different ways. I would never go that far to judge someone's 'phrasing' or anything else without knowing that person and even then I would not judge, but only give my opinion. As a musician you should have the wide picture... I said it many times: stage setup, monitor loudness and many other things can interefere with one playing guitar. Seeing you didn't take all this in account I doubt your objectivness.

And English is not my primary language too... You made a statement saying I should go and study music not knowing anything about me. That's all. Nothing personal. Lets take it to PM's if we need to continue this.

Once again, peace!

I made that statement about you becasue i don't need to know you better. When you say things like:?
"stage setup, monitor loudness and many other things can interefere with one playing guitar" i can understand that you don't know what phrasing is about. Are you trying to say me that i don't know what's the meaning of a simple concept like "phrasing". When one music interpreter have bad phrasing it's mean he is not very good at playing. PERIOD. Stage setup and things like that are not related to phrasing. COME ON!!!
Phrasing is not about talkings like in a talking speech!!
You need to analyze GUITAR PHRASING  to talk about giuitar technique!!!
Have you ever read a guitar magazine? They talk about guitar phrasing all the time!!!

[AXL 20]

Finck plays HIS stuff perfectly and not slash's. again it's about respect. You are in the band with 2 other guys essentially filling the shoes of a guitar god, and you have the guts (or stupidity) to go and fuck up one of the greatest solos of all time (officially)
keep Finck in the band, just not on lead.

[SylvesterStallone]

Hi guys!
I'm a guitar teacher and I love to do guitar analisys (technique, improvisation skills,....).
I have been downloading a lot of material by new gn'r (only soundboard quality) to analyze the new members.
I'm going to write a complete analisys about the new members (Fortus, Finck, Ron Thal, Buckethead and even Paul Huge) some day but now a few considerations regarding Finck:

About guitar technique:

1) He's not very good doing bends (the prebends are awful).  When he does bends the note he reaches is out of key or even out of tune.
2) His right hand is very weak. He is not very good picking notes.
3) His phrasing is really bad when playing lead.
4) He plays very interesant harmony leads. These harmony leads (chord melody) are simple (come on, he isn't Joe Pass!) but they are efective and interesant.

About improvisations skills:

1) Lead work: very very weak. Bad phrasing.
2) Harmony work: interesant. He loves to harmonize solos (Patience for example).

He's in the band because Axl needs him. I think Robin is the main composer in the new album with Axl.
Axl needs a guitar composer in the band and his man is Robin. Axl wants to sound a little industrial and he needs Robin.
The problem is that Robin can't play Slash solos very good (live or album version). He plays Sweet Child o' Mine solos because he needs credit with the fans.

Fortus does a couple of bad taste things when playing Slash solos. I think he's not very talented improvising or composing music. He's very efficient (he's the classic studio player) but has problem when improvising. He suffers from bad taste (like a lot of studio players).

Ron Thal: I'm a little disappointed with him. I don't know how much time he had to learn the songs but he improvised a lot and the only thing he does is play scales up and down, nothing else. He's boring.
Buckethead is way better than him playing and improvising.
Buckethead is one of the best guitar player with a pick in the world, but he's also very very good with fingerpicking.

In conclusion:

1) If Axl wants to sound Industrial he needs Robin.
2) Robin can't play lead guitar because he has bad phrasing (one of the most difficult thing to do in any instrument).

Regarding Madrid bad reviews:

The band was very weak, Axl has always been little professional and the new songs are also weak.
I don't want to start a war, please! This is music, remember! Not politics!

And please...........! Forget rock critics! They aren't musician, they haven't study music never! They're just music amateurs who write bad literature in newspapers or magazines!

Peace!





 

Thanks that was really informative. It's good hearing an analysis of the players from someone who actually plays the guitar than debutantes.

[SylvesterStallone]

Finck plays HIS stuff perfectly and not slash's. again it's about respect. You are in the band with 2 other guys essentially filling the shoes of a guitar god, and you have the guts (or stupidity) to go and fuck up one of the greatest solos of all time (officially)
keep Finck in the band, just not on lead.

Exactly, the line about him trying to put his own spin on it is bullshit, Fortus plays the rocket queen and november rain parts like the album version, note for note. Finck to date is unable to do that on november rain or SCOM. IF you want to put your own spin on it, check out what Ron Thal and Buckethead did on Nightrain's outro and NR's outro, thats called putting your own spin. What Finck does on SCOM and November Rain is called "fucking up".

[wells]

@whiteshark
would you mind butcher Finck phrasing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0IDmPZ9-NA (lets take a short segment from 4:55 - 5:10)

Thanks !

Velimir

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Haha. Laughing at some of you guys saying "Slash played the Solos just likes Robin does" wtf is that? ( Dave-gnr2k you have 3 bad Slash solos? HEY THEY TOURED FOR TWO AND A? HALF YEARS, I don't even wanna imagine how many shows they did during that time. Unlike Robin who screws them up every single time.)

Just check out the Paris 1992 show and come back here to say he plays November Rain solo "like Robin does"...
Robin is a soulfull player, but he isn't too skilled. They should leave the lead guitar parts to Richard and Bumblefoot.

Robin is more skilled than you give him credit for. I have heard slashs solos from paris and robin played nov rain like that too on some of the shows back in 2002, so you are proving my point for me, thanks.

[whiteshark]

@whiteshark
would you mind butcher Finck phrasing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0IDmPZ9-NA (lets take a short segment from 4:55 - 5:10)

Thanks !

Velimir

This is the last time i'm going to talk about a bad guitar player with someone who doesn't know anything about guitar!
So please, Velimir, let me be!

You are talking about the segment from 4:55 - 5:10
Ok!!!! ?
He's playing a pair of guitar bendings that forms one melodic sentence. To play a melodic sentence you need ONLY a HAND POSITION!!!!!!!! To form PHRASING YOU NEED TWO OR MORE MELODIC SENTENCES!!!!! AND YOU NEED TO CHANGE YOUR HAND POSITION. SO........................... THERE ISN'T PHRASING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He's just ripping of Blues paterns from B.B. King, Freddie King, Albert King, Eric Clapton............................................................................................ .....................................

And know one of the worst phrasing that i have ever hear in my life: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QdXxDQCfjQ&search=robin%20Finck

[SylvesterStallone]

whiteshark your expertise is needed on the nightrain thread I started....

[D]

Finck butchering Slash's solos is the same as if Scott sang every GNR song and butchered them.


Can u imagine the shit people would scream at Scott Weiland if he sang every AFD song?

He does Brownstone and Its so Easy, neither Im crazy about and I hate when he sings them but then again I hate hearing New GNR butcher Slash's solos.


I wish Axl would play CD stuff only and VR would play VR stuff only, let the old GNR RIP.


I like the new band's new songs.

I hate it when they play AFD or any Old GNR song cause Its not GNR.

When concert promoters announce "Rock Legends GNR" thats full of shit.

Axl is a legend, the other guys havent earned that title yet.

[whiteshark]

Haha. Laughing at some of you guys saying "Slash played the Solos just likes Robin does" wtf is that? ( Dave-gnr2k you have 3 bad Slash solos? HEY THEY TOURED FOR TWO AND A? HALF YEARS, I don't even wanna imagine how many shows they did during that time. Unlike Robin who screws them up every single time.)

Just check out the Paris 1992 show and come back here to say he plays November Rain solo "like Robin does"...
Robin is a soulfull player, but he isn't too skilled. They should leave the lead guitar parts to Richard and Bumblefoot.

Robin is more skilled than you give him credit for. I have heard slashs solos from paris and robin played nov rain like that too on some of the shows back in 2002, so you are proving my point for me, thanks.

I have put myself guitar tabs about Slash's solos from Paris 92 and all Robin Finck "solos" and I can tell you looking at the sheet paper that Robin doesn't play Slash solos like Slash does it in Paris 92.
That's for sure!!!!!
Fortus plays the first guitar solo in November Rain because Robin destroyed it in Las Vegas and Rock In Rio 3.