Do Bumblefoot and Fortus render Finck obsolete for GnR?

[Mutherfunker]

i like Finck... he's a soulful player just like Slash and John Frusciante. sure he's sloppy live but so is Slash.

Finck is on a much lower level than Slash.? Slash is sloppy sometimes... Finck is sloppy on EVERY song. Even his own.? And I don't mean he plays off time or whatever... I mean he's hitting off key notes etc a LOT.? Fucking up classic solo's.? Anyone who tries to justify duff notes being played continuously, by a guy who should be looking at his fretboard more instead of flailing around, should get some fucking ears and stop being so blinded.

Do you ever think, that he wants to play it that way? As I said above, if he wanted to replicate Slash's solos note for note, he could do it with his eyes shut.

It would disturb me if he played the same, that's not expressing yourself, that's copying someone elses style.

@#$%Funker

[Jim Bob]

i like Finck... he's a soulful player just like Slash and John Frusciante. sure he's sloppy live but so is Slash.

Finck is on a much lower level than Slash.  Slash is sloppy sometimes... Finck is sloppy on EVERY song. Even his own.  And I don't mean he plays off time or whatever... I mean he's hitting off key notes etc a LOT.  Fucking up classic solo's.  Anyone who tries to justify duff notes being played continuously, by a guy who should be looking at his fretboard more instead of flailing around, should get some fucking ears and stop being so blinded.

Do you ever think, that he wants to play it that way? As I said above, if he wanted to replicate Slash's solos note for note, he could do it with his eyes shut.

It would disturb me if he played the same, that's not expressing yourself, that's copying someone elses style.

@#$%Funker

this is what people don't understand.  I used to play guitar, and those first few NR solos are not terribly hard, I was able to do them the way they sounded on the album.  Although that was years ago.   Finck is not Slash, nor do I expect him to play like Slash.   IMO Finck is better for GNR now.

[justincrowe]

Finck IS Gn'R !!!

no dude... Adler is GNR... ask any spaniard 

i like Finck... he's a soulful player just like Slash and John Frusciante. sure he's sloppy live but so is Slash.

Finck is on a much lower level than Slash.  Slash is sloppy sometimes... Finck is sloppy on EVERY song. Even his own.  And I don't mean he plays off time or whatever... I mean he's hitting off key notes etc a LOT.  Fucking up classic solo's. 

i don't hear it... i think Finck plays much better now than he did back in 02... i'd say you're over exaggerating.

[whiteshark]

Hi guys!
I'm a guitar teacher and I love to do guitar analisys (technique, improvisation skills,....).
I have been downloading a lot of material by new gn'r (only soundboard quality) to analyze the new members.
I'm going to write a complete analisys about the new members (Fortus, Finck, Ron Thal, Buckethead and even Paul Huge) some day but now a few considerations regarding Finck:

About guitar technique:

1) He's not very good doing bends (the prebends are awful). ?When he does bends the note he reaches is out of key or even out of tune.
2) His right hand is very weak. He is not very good picking notes.
3) His phrasing is really bad when playing lead.
4) He plays very interesant harmony leads. These harmony leads (chord melody) are simple (come on, he isn't Joe Pass!) but they are efective and interesant.

About improvisations skills:

1) Lead work: very very weak. Bad phrasing.
2) Harmony work: interesant. He loves to harmonize solos (Patience for example).

He's in the band because Axl needs him. I think Robin is the main composer in the new album with Axl.
Axl needs a guitar composer in the band and his man is Robin. Axl wants to sound a little industrial and he needs Robin.
The problem is that Robin can't play Slash solos very good (live or album version). He plays Sweet Child o' Mine solos because he needs credit with the fans.

Fortus does a couple of bad taste things when playing Slash solos. I think he's not very talented improvising or composing music. He's very efficient (he's the classic studio player) but has problem when improvising. He suffers from bad taste (like a lot of studio players).

Ron Thal: I'm a little disappointed with him. I don't know how much time he had to learn the songs but he improvised a lot and the only thing he does is play scales up and down, nothing else. He's boring.
Buckethead is way better than him playing and improvising.
Buckethead is one of the best guitar player with a pick in the world, but he's also very very good with fingerpicking.

In conclusion:

1) If Axl wants to sound Industrial he needs Robin.
2) Robin can't play lead guitar because he has bad phrasing (one of the most difficult thing to do in any instrument).

Regarding Madrid bad reviews:

The band was very weak, Axl has always been little professional and the new songs are also weak.
I don't want to start a war, please! This is music, remember! Not politics!

And please...........! Forget rock critics! They aren't musician, they haven't study music never! They're just music amateurs who write bad literature in newspapers or magazines!

Peace!





 ?

[CheapJon]

Um, no.... Would you like to be without songs like better? Finck wrote the music to that... He has talent.

how do we now for sure who wrote what?..

i like all the 3 guitar players and they kick ass.. and hopefulle this is the line up 4 ever  and no more changes.. maybe that pitman could have leave the band.. he almost ruined some songs last night

[Naupis]

Finck wrote the guitar parts to many of the new songs, yet they are boring without the contributions of a superior player. Just listen to the new version of TWAT without Bucket on it, and you can see what the band would sound like without a Bumble/Buckethead type who can really play.

The guy has improved his playing since 02, but is clearly the weakest guitarist in his own band. He may be a nice guy and have good stage presence, but in terms of raw talent I don't understand where the love for him comes from when he can't hold Bumble or Fortus's guitar pick.

[makane]

Um, no.... Would you like to be without songs like better? Finck wrote the music to that... He has talent.

how do we now for sure who wrote what?..

i like all the 3 guitar players and they kick ass.. and hopefulle this is the line up 4 ever? and no more changes.. maybe that pitman could have leave the band.. he almost ruined some songs last night

Pittman was just too high in the mix. Not hes fault...

[AXL 20]

I think Fortus and Finck should switch. Ron doesnt play enough because of Finck, he is much better. Fortus is (to my surprise) a better lead player than fink. Bumblefoot should tackle the hardest solos and then Fortus the other ones and maybe give Finck like patience or something. He is too sloppy and cant improvise. Slash gave life to all the solos they play (obviously besides new material) so Finck should RESPECT it and not try to improvise November Rain as if he is Zakk Wylde or something adding some shred in or whatever. Bumble was note for note. Fortus is a cleaner player than Finck.

If I were Axl I would reunite the lineup, but im not so im just voicing my opinion.

[AxlFink]

dumbest dumbest post EVER!!!!! everyday i read something more dumb.  Better is a Robin song.  Bumblefoot is the only band member in question..... are you fucking kidding me?  Robin's solo in better is amazing..... his solo in the blues is amazing.. the dude's playing style is the future of this band.... bumblefoot = Matt Sorum at this point.  Also, anyone that saw the band with Buckethead knows that Buckethead is missed a lot and Bumblefoot so far does not compare.  Maybe he will at somepoint.  Not now... so why would you replace the most important member besides axl.... with the least important.  So fucking dumb. 

[25]

1) He's not very good doing bends (the prebends are awful).  When he does bends the note he reaches is out of key or even out of tune.
2) His right hand is very weak. He is not very good picking notes.
3) His phrasing is really bad when playing lead.
 

I think that all three of those complaints are style arguments rather than technique. You're making assumptions in each case about what you think he's trying to achieve, and comparing the results against textbook guitar technique - the problem being that if your assumption is wrong then your criticism is wrong too. Example: If you're expecting Finck to use bends in a "classic rock" style, to fluidly extend one note into the next, then of course it's going to sound "wrong" to you when he instead spends more time "in the bend," creating that broad, dissonant sound. The focus there is not the start note or the end note (in fact, the end note is not even a consideration) but the broad, sprawling wail between. Yes, it's pitchy and out of tune to a degree, that's the point. It's a more emotionally resonant, organic sound. I don't know why it's not in your Bumper Book Of Guitar Teacher Technique, maybe you need to update it from the 1980s version.   

And really, "bad phrasing"? There's no such thing. You don't have to like his phrasing, but to call it "bad" is like saying "he's expressing himself wrongly!"  I guess Miles Davis and John Coltrane had REALLY BAD phrasing. I bet there were trumpet and sax teachers going crazy over those two. 

Textbook technique rarely makes for good guitar playing. Any point that is agreed upon is, by definition, only an average, a middle way.  Great guitar players have always done their own thing. I mean, do you judge Hendrix's woodstock performance as a disaster of technique or a shining example of emotive, spontanious music?

[lennonisgod]

Yeah Finck must really suck, that's why he's in one of the biggest bands of all time.  God, Axl what are you thinking???  You need to come on this message board to pick guitar players because you obviously have no idea what you're doing.  GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK PEOPLE!!!  You are sitting here criticizing him on a fucking message board and he's up there playing in front of thousands of fucking people.  Give it fucking up, this new band and Finck are here to stay. 

[shaun]

Before the Finck groupies jump all over me, let me clarify. This guy is the weakest link in the band. I love Better and his solo in it, hell I enjoy his solos on The Blues as well, but he is far and away the weakest guitarist in this band. Bumblefoot has the technical prowess of Buckethead and can channel the soul of Slash, he's got the best of both worlds here. Maybe he's not as good as those two in their areas, but he can give us emotion and skill.

...from what i have read, no Robin then no Better. Better is my favourite song to come out of the new GnR (along with the Blues). So i say Robin is good for GnR 

...without wishing to sound harsh...
it's the rest of the band that could be replaced without any real issues (bar Axl o'course  )

[whiteshark]

1) He's not very good doing bends (the prebends are awful).? When he does bends the note he reaches is out of key or even out of tune.
2) His right hand is very weak. He is not very good picking notes.
3) His phrasing is really bad when playing lead.
 

I think that all three of those complaints are style arguments rather than technique. You're making assumptions in each case about what you think he's trying to achieve, and comparing the results against textbook guitar technique - the problem being that if your assumption is wrong then your criticism is wrong too. Example: If you're expecting Finck to use bends in a "classic rock" style, to fluidly extend one note into the next, then of course it's going to sound "wrong" to you when he instead spends more time "in the bend," creating that broad, dissonant sound. The focus there is not the start note or the end note (in fact, the end note is not even a consideration) but the broad, sprawling wail between. Yes, it's pitchy and out of tune to a degree, that's the point. It's a more emotionally resonant, organic sound. I don't know why it's not in your Bumper Book Of Guitar Teacher Technique, maybe you need to update it from the 1980s version.? ?

And really, "bad phrasing"? There's no such thing. You don't have to like his phrasing, but to call it "bad" is like saying "he's expressing himself wrongly!"? I guess Miles Davis and John Coltrane had REALLY BAD phrasing. I bet there were trumpet and sax teachers going crazy over those two.?

Textbook technique rarely makes for good guitar playing. Any point that is agreed upon is, by definition, only an average, a middle way.? Great guitar players have always done their own thing. I mean, do you judge Hendrix's woodstock performance as a disaster of technique or a shining example of emotive, spontanious music?

In first place study music guy, because kids like you are responsible for putting so much garbage on the net!
I cannot believe how is posible that a human being can put such aberrations like this: "I think that all three of those complaints are style arguments rather than technique". ? Style and technique in music is the same!!!!!!!!!! The style is the way a performer uses his technique!!!
Another pearl from you: "And really, "bad phrasing"? There's no such thing. You don't have to like his phrasing, but to call it "bad" is like saying "he's expressing himself wrongly!" ? In music phrasing means this: A natural division of the melodic line, comparable to a sentence of speech. This means Robin can't put two or more melodic lines together good because he doesn't know who to change properly to one posture to another. He has a poor technique in his left hand to do this. PERIOD! This is basic guitar teaching!!!!
And YES, DAVIS and COLTRANE had GREAT PHRASING!!!!!!!!!
Another good laugh sentence from you: "If you're expecting Finck to use bends in a "classic rock" style, to fluidly extend one note into the next, then of course it's going to sound "wrong" to you when he instead spends more time "in the bend," creating that broad, dissonant sound. The focus there is not the start note or the end note (in fact, the end note is not even a consideration) but the broad, sprawling wail between" ?
A bend IS A GUITAR TECHNIQUE USED TO CHANGE THE PITCH of a note, and the most important thing is the END NOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How is possible that you don't know this?
You are saying stupid things like i nedd to update my books..... ? Do you really think Robin plays modern music? Modern guitar players like Buckethead or a lot of modern Jazz and Classical players play atonal music. Finck plays Rock with cheesy pop melodies (The Blues or Better).
YES, he is out of key whenever he's using bendings. POINT. Don't talk about stupid things like ?"pitchy and out of tune to a degree, that's the point. It's a more emotionally resonant, organic sound" To be out of key or out of tune doesn't mean DISONANT.
Hendrix played DISONANT music in Woodstock during his legendary guitar solo, Robin is out of tune.
Another stupid thing from you: "Textbook technique rarely makes for good guitar playing" ?
Ask this to any Classical guitar player. If you don't know they have the better technique in the world and they have learn at ?Musical Conservatories using textbook.

Thanks for the good laugh guy! ?
And remenber.... learn something about music before talking about it! Don't spread your garbage knowledge over the net.
In case you don't know it there are a lot of guitar teachers in guitar boards giving very very bad reviews to Robin Finck and they are all saying the same thing about his poor bendings and bad phrasing.

Peace guy, and don't use my time to teach you this Basic things!

[Mutherfunker]

As I keep saying whiteshark, the minute you start analysing a person's playing the way you are, you have totally lost sight of what music is about.

Music is art and it brings out different feelings in different people. I listened to Robin, and I love the way he plays, I enjoy it, as do many others. Your "analysis" of his playing in inconsequential.

You think people give a fuck about phrasing and bends?

You wrote all of that reply talking about pitch, and crap like that, laughing at someone because you know all the technicalities of playing? I feel sorry for you.

@#$%Funker

[D]

D do me a favor and a favor for ever one else here , just SHUT THE FUCK UP!

I know u just didnt post that.

U of all people MR THE BLUEEEEEEEEEES is gonna have the audacity to come on here and tell someone that THEY should shut the fuck up.


Pray u never meet me at a concert.

[D]

i like Finck... he's a soulful player just like Slash and John Frusciante. sure he's sloppy live but so is Slash.

btw, anyone else pick up "Normal" by Bumblefoot? a pretty decent cd. not full-on shredding but done with taste. he's got some songwriting skills as well. i can definitely see him coming into his own with GNR in the future.

Please never put Robin in the same sentence as Slash and John Frusciante cause he is nowhere on that level.

If Robin wasnt in GNR there wouldnt be 5 people on here who would say he was a great guitar player.

I believe some of u support Axl so much that u turn a blind eye and ear.

I personally think Fortus is the best guitarist in the band and thats not necessarily a good thing.


U guys come on here talkin bout Robin Finck.. Those demos are great because of AXL.

None of the riffs *there really arent any riffs* are memorable or will stand the test of time.

[Death Cube K]

I like Robin Finck. True, I wouldnt have known shit about him if it wasnt for GNR, but I like his playing and I like his style. He stands out..that's cool. I don't care if he plays sloppy..last time I checked this is supposed to be rock n roll and not the Vienna orchestra or whatever.

[benchiefjr]

i like Finck... he's a soulful player just like Slash and John Frusciante. sure he's sloppy live but so is Slash.

btw, anyone else pick up "Normal" by Bumblefoot? a pretty decent cd. not full-on shredding but done with taste. he's got some songwriting skills as well. i can definitely see him coming into his own with GNR in the future.

Please never put Robin in the same sentence as Slash and John Frusciante cause he is nowhere on that level.

If Robin wasnt in GNR there wouldnt be 5 people on here who would say he was a great guitar player.

I believe some of u support Axl so much that u turn a blind eye and ear.

I personally think Fortus is the best guitarist in the band and thats not necessarily a good thing.


U guys come on here talkin bout Robin Finck.. Those demos are great because of AXL.

None of the riffs *there really arent any riffs* are memorable or will stand the test of time.

 
Finck = Sloppy
Bumblefoot = I like him, but he's just a wanker...at least he's not that fuckhead Buckethead breakdancing during shows and whatnot.  He's also just a really fast player who was a freak although he could probably play everything flawlessly.

[wells]

@whiteshark

OK. lot of words, but not much to read. I respect all your typings, but don't make it like you are the only expert here. Some things you say take you far away from plain guitar analisys... Your 'phrasing' makes me wonder if you can be objective. Really no hard feelings and I enjoyed reading your post, but most of it is not worth the key presses. Sorry...

[whiteshark]

As I keep saying whiteshark, the minute you start analysing a person's playing the way you are, you have totally lost sight of what music is about.

Music is art and it brings out different feelings in different people. I listened to Robin, and I love the way he plays, I enjoy it, as do many others. Your "analysis" of his playing in inconsequential.

You think people give a fuck about phrasing and bends?

You wrote all of that reply talking about pitch, and crap like that, laughing at someone because you know all the technicalities of playing? I feel sorry for you.

@#$%Funker

1) Yes music is art, but art needs good technique to be art. Do you think that when a child makes a drawing it's art? ?
Do you think Robin makes art? ?
2) Yes, there are a tons of guys who "give a fuck" about phrasing and bends. For example, you. If you don't know what's its called phrasing and what's its called bends is another thing.
3) Do you really think that I have made an "analysis" about Robin playing?? ? The technical abilities of Robin are so poor that it's imposible to write more than two words about his playing!!!! ?
4) And finally.... My "analysis" is "consequential" because have a consequence. The consequence is put arguments about a reallity. The reallity is that Robin Finck "SUCK" playing lead guitar.
I don't put bad reviews about his composing abilities, I'm not saying he's a bad guy. I'm just saying he's is REALLY BAD playing lead guitar. If you like is just for one reason: "You have BAD TASTE" And the BAD TASTE is derivated from REALLY POOR MUSIC EDUCATION. PERIOD. Begin listening jazz or classical guitar and you will know soon or later what's the meaning of PHRASING.
Now I'm feeling SORRY ABOUT YOU, KID!

Why do you attack me when I'm talking about things that you don't understand?
If you want to talk about who is better or not playing guitar go to music schools now, please!!!

ROBIN FINCK IS PERFECT FOR THE NEW DIRECTION AXL WANTS IN GN'R. HE'S GOOD COMPOSING THIS "KIND OF MUSIC". ANOTHER THING IS THAT HE CAN'T PLAY LEAD GUITAR.
AND ANOTHER THING IS IF THE NEW MUSIC DIRECTION IS GOOD OR NOT.