What Does Guns N' Roses Mean?

[Bono]

Here's one for you all who say "It was still Gn'R when Izzy and Steven were gone so why can't it be Gn'R without Slash and Duff?" fair enough. But suppose Axl left the band and signed over the rights of the name to the new guys and they got a new singer is it still Gun N ' Roses? According to your philosophy it's all about the music right and not who's in the band. Guns N' Roses is a feeling and attitude not about members right? Or does that only apply as long as Axl's in the band. If it were Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven minus Axl is it still Guns N' Roses? It should be but alot of you would say no and that's ridiculous.

[A Private Eye]

Well VR seem to do just fine without the GNR name they will probably never be as big as they were when in GNR but they still released a debut album that sold well by todays standards- the main reason for that is Slash. To most people the core ingredient in GNR was Axl/Slash so if people are this interested in Slashs new band they would be interested in Axls probably just as much, the only slight difference is Axl is seen as whingy, power hungry, loon by a lot of music fans whereas Slash is seen as a cool guitarist. It is hard to say if that would hurt sales for Axl.

My point is if Slash can get this much interest with VR so can Axl even if he didn't call it GNR, the difference is Axl couldn't do things how he is now if it was a solo album. With the name GNR he can just about carry a sell out tour after 13 years of nothing, as the Axl Rose band he would need a new album to tour with before he hit the road. I personally don't think that's why he kept the name but it's an added bonus for him.

For me it wouldn't be GNR until 3 of the original 5 were in the band. It would probably need Slash as 1 of those 3 and then another member as well as obviously Axl. The band that is about to tour europe as GNR is not really GNR for me I'm afraid, they're certainly a kick ass band and I'm hoping to see them this summer but it just won't be GNR for me.

[Axlative]

Here's one for you all who say "It was still Gn'R when Izzy and Steven were gone so why can't it be Gn'R without Slash and Duff?" fair enough. But suppose Axl left the band and signed over the rights of the name to the new guys and they got a new singer is it still Gun N ' Roses? According to your philosophy it's all about the music right and not who's in the band. Guns N' Roses is a feeling and attitude not about members right? Or does that only apply as long as Axl's in the band. If it were Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven minus Axl is it still Guns N' Roses? It should be but alot of you would say no and that's ridiculous.

Only problem is that no one can convey that feeling and attitude "the GNR way" except Axl. That's why there's so few good cover bands for one; It's just fucking difficult to sound like Axl. Anyone can do Bon Jovi, but not GNR! Slash has an unique sound, but he's several levels below his GNR-period without Axl. Whereas Axl probably can bring any guitarist a couple of notches up. At least songwriting-wise.

So... Slash without Axl --> Not considered greatest guitarists ever --> GNR /w Slash but /wo Axl --> GNR /wo one of the greatest guitarists ever and /wo one of the greatest frontmen ever --> GNR not a great band by anyones standards (OK, Izzy might save something, but still.... no.)

[TheMole]

I've been reading here for quite some time now, but haven't posted until now...

The way I see it, you'll always have Axl fans and Slash fans. On a GNR board, you're gonna have mostly Axl fans; on a VR board Slash fans will prevail... that's very simple to understand I think, no...?

What threads like this one (and the gazillion others) boil down to (again, IMHO), is wether Axl or Slash is better. Plain and simple. Some people will say Axl, some will say Slash. Most of this is a matter of opinion, but there's a very objective way to settle something like this: who sells more records.

Contraband sold approximately 2.5 million copies in the US alone (even though it was actively boycotted for containing stringent DRM software...) That's 1/2 of Use your Illusion 1 (or 2), 13 years after Guns N' Roses was the worlds biggest rock band. Not bad. They might even sell a few more once Libertad is out and they get some new fans... who knows...

Axl has however killed of our only chance of ever making a fair comparison between the popularity of the two... He's still using the name Guns N' Roses, whilest Slash had to use a new name. Chinese Democracy is bound to sell 5 million copies or more, just because of the name. So in that respect I find it a pitty that he's still using the name. On the other hand, a big-name comeback may rekindle interest in rock music, so I'm happy about that.

As for my own opinion: the new leaks can't rival the old material (anyone who says it does is probably to excited about the fact that there's new material to make good judgement), neither does contraband. Axl needs Slash as much as Slash needs Axl... together they're magic. I mean no disrespect to the new bandmembers; I guess it's a chemistry thing.

Although if they would come together now, I doubt they would outsell Appetite either way... times have changed too much for that...

[McDuff]

Axl would still have a lot of shit flung at him over the old GnR even if he abandoned the name.

I agree 100% 

[Luigi]

Axl is the Gun of his own Rose. He's loaded like a Gun, it's true. Axl Rose Is indeed
GUNS & ROSES   
 
                   He's The Loaded GUN With The Last Name ROSE
                                                                         We call him AXL

No offence but that was pretty bad

Nah that was Terrible

At best, pathetic.  Just kidding with ya bro.. good try. 

Come on people I was fucking around with it, give me a break!  LOOK AT THE TOPIC

[Thorned Rose]

Contraband sold approximately 2.5 million copies in the US alone (even though it was actively boycotted for containing stringent DRM software...) That's 1/2 of Use your Illusion 1 (or 2), 13 years after Guns N' Roses was the worlds biggest rock band. Not bad. They might even sell a few more once Libertad is out and they get some new fans... who knows...

I'm the fact guy here I think... and Both Use Your Illusions sold 7 million copies each. They were both certified that in 1997. I would guess they are very very close to 8 million each now. That is just in the U.S. please get your facts straight.

CD will never compare to AFD. AFD is great it really is, but lets face it. It was the right album at the right time. It was great, but not the best album ever as we all put it.

CD will sell about 3-5 million within 2 years of its release. Quote me on that.

[AxlFink]

this new gnr will be Guns n Roses after CD comes out.  They have what.... 3 ablums worth of material done?  If they release all of that over the next few years they will be The real guns n roses without a second thought.  Especially since the new material sounds so fuckin amazing. and Axl seems to be on top of his game now.  I mean, AFD was one of the best cds of all time...but the illusions should have been 1 cd.  There's a lot on there that they could have left off (so fine) CD and whatever they release after it can easily be more productive as far as song quality than a lot of the old gnr material.  Then there is no question of what Guns n Roses means.  Axl and a group of good musicians is Guns N Roses.  Any group of good musicians Axl Works with will produce amazing music.  A group of good musians working with a different singer is VR.  VR does not stand up to any old GNR.  VR will not stand up to the new music.  Wasnt it Rolling Stone that said the leaks were already BETTER than the VR cd?  I forget what mag it was but i think RS...Axl is gnr.

[GnR-NOW]

Axl is gnr.

thats right

[Oh My Choking Soul]

I've been reading here for quite some time now, but haven't posted until now...

The way I see it, you'll always have Axl fans and Slash fans. On a GNR board, you're gonna have mostly Axl fans; on a VR board Slash fans will prevail... that's very simple to understand I think, no...?

What threads like this one (and the gazillion others) boil down to (again, IMHO), is wether Axl or Slash is better. Plain and simple. Some people will say Axl, some will say Slash. Most of this is a matter of opinion, but there's a very objective way to settle something like this: who sells more records.

Contraband sold approximately 2.5 million copies in the US alone (even though it was actively boycotted for containing stringent DRM software...) That's 1/2 of Use your Illusion 1 (or 2), 13 years after Guns N' Roses was the worlds biggest rock band. Not bad. They might even sell a few more once Libertad is out and they get some new fans... who knows...

Axl has however killed of our only chance of ever making a fair comparison between the popularity of the two... He's still using the name Guns N' Roses, whilest Slash had to use a new name. Chinese Democracy is bound to sell 5 million copies or more, just because of the name. So in that respect I find it a pitty that he's still using the name. On the other hand, a big-name comeback may rekindle interest in rock music, so I'm happy about that.

As for my own opinion: the new leaks can't rival the old material (anyone who says it does is probably to excited about the fact that there's new material to make good judgement), neither does contraband. Axl needs Slash as much as Slash needs Axl... together they're magic. I mean no disrespect to the new bandmembers; I guess it's a chemistry thing.

Although if they would come together now, I doubt they would outsell Appetite either way... times have changed too much for that...

Serious question, what do you do for a living... this isn't a set-up, nor is it a flame. Honest question. I ask because your post was, IMHO, quite good.

[Big Gun]

no true GNR fan would say that. AFD, Lies,UYI 1,2 and TSI if i remember well is not just AXL on a piano singing i believe there is also 3 guitar players and drums.
its a pitty that old GNR had a great chemistry to write music, but couldnt get along has human beings. i remember an old MTV cribbs when Bazz said " I was surprised that those guys stayed together that long".

[NickNasty]

This thread is also not about whether Axl should've continued to call the band GN'R, that's been argued to death, this thread's only purpose is to ask you, the fans, what does the name Guns N' Roses mean to you?

what does it mean to me?

to me its the music-as sung by axl rose and whoever he's performing with--and while i'll say axl alone didnt make guns what it was, it's his voice that is the lynchpin of the music, IMO---put another singer up there and you get, well, VR-which isnt neccesarily a bad thing, but it aint guns.

[Oh My Choking Soul]

Anything Axl touches is GN'R for me. FACT: Don "fucking" Henley was in GN'R for a little while, but he went quietly.

[JB9988]

Not a chance.
Axl is nothing without that name.

Yea of pal. FUCK YOU! Axl can do just fine with out the name he doesnt need it. But it is his and he can use it anyway he wants. Axl can call it what ever he wants but the shows did not sell in less then 3min so ppl can see a name. The went for the entier group axl, finck, richard, dizzy, and bf

[pilferk]

Jesus.

GN'R is simply a band with Axl Rose, Robin Finck, Dizzy Reed, Richard Fortus, Brain, Chris Pitman, Ron Thal and Tommy Stinson. End of story.

Those people in the band write and play songs.

In the past, GN'R had some other members that came and left.

Originaly, there was Axl Rose, Duff McKagan, Slash, bla bla bla.

Some left, some stayed, almost from day one. Axl wanted GN'R to continue. He had differences with Slash and other people. Some of them left. Some others came.

This we have now is simply : Guns N' Roses

Accept it or leave the subject alone. It's the same discussions since, well ... I can't even remember since when it's kinda boring now.

The nail who's head you just squarely hit is smarting. 

As evidenced largely by this thread, the GnR name is both a blessing and a curse.

It's a blessing because of the name recognition it brings, and the installed fan base that follows it (though I'd venture that THAT part can be a curse, too....but I digress).  You have some built in audience and album sales, for sure.

It's a curse because you will forever be compared to "the old band".  Those are big shoes to fill, and big moutains to climb.  It's gotta be stressful to constantly be living in the shadow of what once was.  I give the guys credit for doing that...

The fact is...Slash and Duff left.  You can argue, til you're blue in the face, they were "forced" out due to whatever differences they had with Axl, they couldn't live/work under the conditions that existed, they were undercut, etc but the fact remains...they quit.  They CHOSE to quit.  Axl, on the other hand, did not.  He has, for whatever reason, chosen to "live" the GnR life.  Sure, I'm sure that has SOMETHING to do with the fact he "owns" the GnR name.  But, for me, I think it's more than that.  I think GnR's "rebirth" is almost a mission for Axl.  Maybe not an QUITE an obssession, but .....something close to that.  And I, for one, sort of respect him for that...for that kind of dedication.

[Chief]

like someone said, the new Guns will really become GNR after a couple albums and tours.. right now is just the beginning..


P.S. can anyone tell me what is the origin of Duff "ROSE" McKagan i never knew this!

[oldgunsfan]

The name GnR is like brand recognition......

but Axl is probably the most charismatic live front-man out there (though Weiland is damn good as well) 

personally I think Axl would do just as well if he called it something other than GnR  as he will always be associated with being the Lead Singer of GnR

[TheMole]

I'm the fact guy here I think... and Both Use Your Illusions sold 7 million copies each. They were both certified that in 1997. I would guess they are very very close to 8 million each now. That is just in the U.S. please get your facts straight.

Allright, you got me there... I looked up the figures on wikipedia (where it says +/- 5.4 million each) before my previous post. It also says 7x platinum which should equate to 7'000'000; I just wasn't sure if the platinum certification is done on US figures alone or is counted worldwide, so I decided to stick to the figures on the page... Not trying to overtake your position as 'the fact guy' or anything, sorry about that...

The point I was trying to make remains however: by today's standards Contraband was a pretty succesfull rock album.

Serious question, what do you do for a living... this isn't a set-up, nor is it a flame. Honest question. I ask because your post was, IMHO, quite good.

Thanks, I'm a software engineer. May I ask why you want to know?

[jsg2295]

Axl is part of the wheel that is GNR. He maintains the position of GNR. He bears the weight of the vehicle plus any cargo, also any acceleration forces between him and the ground.....................Get it?................................Axl........wheel?.........um.....right......"kicks dirt"

[mikegiuliana]

it wouldn't be the same without the name, even though gnr and axl is one in the same today there is a big difference..

If steven adler owned the name gnr he could sell out places.. gnr is now pop culture..