Some things I noticed from the NYC boot from the 15th

[Miggy]

Well, I agree.  From the bits I heard, he does sound better than '02 and I didn't expect that.  From the bits I've seen he also moves a lot less than in '02 (and certainly A LOT LESS than in the nineties  ), so that really helps him.  But it's also true when you say that it seems that he has to make a great effort to do those gigs.   And it is just a fact that a voice doesn't keep the same level over the years.  Look at Springsteen, Hetfield, Jagger, that dude from AC/DC, ...  So, I hope Axl can do this tour and any other tours without big voiceproblems, but I must say, I'm a bit afraid about that ...  Hope I'm wrong.

[GnR-NOW]

as far as him not moving as much, the stage wasn't that big and he didn't have the room to run around, plus he is in his forties now.

[Voodoochild]

As far as I know, those were just warm up. I'm sure he'll get better in the european tour.

[C0ma]

Well, I agree.? From the bits I heard, he does sound better than '02 and I didn't expect that.? From the bits I've seen he also moves a lot less than in '02 (and certainly A LOT LESS than in the nineties? ), so that really helps him.? But it's also true when you say that it seems that he has to make a great effort to do those gigs.? ?And it is just a fact that a voice doesn't keep the same level over the years.? Look at Springsteen, Hetfield, Jagger, that dude from AC/DC, ...? So, I hope Axl can do this tour and any other tours without big voiceproblems, but I must say, I'm a bit afraid about that ...? Hope I'm wrong.

I don't know about that (regarding the movement), he was all over the stage on the 14th. Back in 2002 he may have moved more, but he wasn't this intense.... To me Axl was a "Bad Impersonation fo Axl Rose" durring the 2002 shows, whenever he ran or danced it seemed forced. This time around it just flowed.... Between Axl's performance and the fact that Mickey Rourke was 15 feet from me I thought I got shot back to 1988.

[DunkinDave]

All I know is that during the first show he sang Nightrain like he did during the Illusion tour, and on the 15th he sang it like he did in 2002.

[pilferk]

All I know is that during the first show he sang Nightrain like he did during the Illusion tour, and on the 15th he sang it like he did in 2002.

Were you in the same venue I was?

Again, I SAW them in '02.? I was THERE on the 15th.? The voices were night and day.? Yes, his voice IS a little higher now than it was back in the 90's, but it was no where NEAR the '02 voice.?And the rasp was back with a vengance, all night long.  Not even on the same planet with '02.

[DunkinDave]

All I know is that during the first show he sang Nightrain like he did during the Illusion tour, and on the 15th he sang it like he did in 2002.

Were you in the same venue I was?

Again, I SAW them in '02.? I was THERE on the 15th.? The voices were night and day.? Yes, his voice IS a little higher now than it was back in the 90's, but it was no where NEAR the '02 voice.?And the rasp was back with a vengance, all night long.? Not even on the same planet with '02.

Hey guy - I suggest you download the bootlegs floating around and compare them to 2002 bootlegs.

His voice is practically the same, save for him being less out-of-breath.

[pilferk]

[
Hey guy - I suggest you download the bootlegs floating around and compare them to 2002 bootlegs.

His voice is practically the same, save for him being less out-of-breath.

WAIT, you're going by the boots?? You weren't actually there?

'nuff said.

Look at the opinions of those that were actually THERE at the shows.? They all say the same thing.

I haven't heard all of the flac boot yet, and that boot is, without question, the best quality boot from the 15th so far (and probably unless we get a SB).? But given what I have heard, as good quality as it is, with the crowd noise blending in, and the other issues of any crowd recording......if you're using THAT as your basis for judgement you're going to be very surprised. Especially considering you're judging, I'll bet, the crowd recording against the SB's of '02.? And god only knows what you're listening to them on for speakers.....

His voice sounds almost nothing like it did in '02.? Now, it doesn't sound like it did in '93, when he was blowing his voice out every other show, either.  It's more middle ground, with a higher pitch, but much more "rasp" than in '02.

I was there, man.? So were a good number of the posters on this board.? Notice they're almost all saying the same thing.

[Dont Try Me]

yeah, pilferk is definitely right! But let's not go into that discussion cause it's obvious his voice is much much better then in 2002. I'm very glad that it is. The thing which this is topic is meaned to be about is well....like some other people said: the new songs require allot from Axl's vocals. The new songs are much more ambitious (IMO). I noticed that since his voice is going back to the rasp thing, it's easier for him to pull off the old songs then the new ones. Or so it seems to me. Just an observation.

And I suggest DunkinDave takes a listen to Knockin On Heaven's Door from the 15th, and then tell me his voice is the same as in 2002 

It's much better now for sure! 

[WARose]

i actually think he sounds amazing on the 05. 15 boot, although his voice was supposed to be away.....and i didn`t notice the voice problems various posters were pointing out....

can`t wait for rock am ring. i`ll be fully able to judge on his voice then... and you should wait until you attend a concert yourselves as well

[WARose]

And I suggest DunkinDave takes a listen to Knockin On Heaven's Door from the 15th, and then tell me his voice is the same as in 2002 

nah  he should take a listen to my michelle and compare it to boston 2002

[DunkinDave]

And I suggest DunkinDave takes a listen to Knockin On Heaven's Door from the 15th, and then tell me his voice is the same as in 2002?

He's using the same vocal technique now as he was in 2002 - that's all I'm saying.

WAIT, you're going by the boots? ?You weren't actually there?

'nuff said.

Please think about how pointless that comment is - people who went to the 2002 concerts said the same thing (OMG AXL HAD THE BEST VOICE EVER) and all that crap.

We have bootlegs of the audio - being there doesn't mean anything when you have audio of the show to evaluate and compare with other bootlegs.

[pilferk]

He's using the same vocal technique now as he was in 2002 - that's all I'm saying.

Which you conclude by a crowd recorded boot.? And you're wrong.? It's an amalgamation, which you can clearly tell by listening to him and actually BEING there.? It's not nearly the same technique he used in '02.? His pitch is not quite as high, and the rasp is actually noticeably present.? He's not using the '02 technique, and he's not using the '93 technique.? This is something new that incorporates, to some extent, both sounds.

Please think about how pointless that comment is - people who went to the 2002 concerts said the same thing (OMG AXL HAD THE BEST VOICE EVER) and all that crap.

We have bootlegs of the audio - being there doesn't mean anything when you have audio of the show to evaluate and compare with other bootlegs.

No, think about how pointless it is to try to make a distinction by a flawed (by it's very nature) source, no matter what you're comparing it to.? Think about how pointless it is to tell people who was there, and witnessed his performance live, that they didn't hear it "right" because you're hearing a flawed source that doesn't paint the whole picture.? And not just "some" of those people, like in '02, but MOST of them.

Again, you can believe what you want, but I was there.? In the venue.? As were many other posters.? His voice is very different from '02.? I know because I was also there, in Hartford, in '02.? You can want to believe otherwise, but...that's the fact of the matter.

Dave...go to a show.? Then give your opinion.? Because until you do......your opinion is as flawed as the source you're basing it on.

[ShotgunBlues1978]

I thought he sounded great on the new songs.  He was hitting some ridiculous notes on IRS.  Sounded incredible on The Blues and Madagascar.  Better was a little choppy in a couple places, but other than that his voice sounded very strong, he hit the high notes well, the "If all I knew was that with you I'd want someone to save, it'd be enough, but just my luck---" part he hit the notes perfect.  "Broken heart, provided the spark" part too, he hit the notes.  And the "I never wanted you to be so full of anger" portion was also dead on, I was impressed with his vocals all night

Let me point something else out too, I've listened to some of these bootlegs, and none of them have done justice to the show

[pilferk]

Let me point something else out too, I've listened to some of these bootlegs, and none of them have done justice to the show

Agreed 100%.

Which isn't to say they aren't great boots.  dankrass should get a fucking medal for the 14th and 15th boots.

But NO crowd recording is capable of doing full justice to a show....Here's hoping SB's show up eventually.

[ShotgunBlues1978]

Here's hoping SB's show up eventually.

Either that, or an official DVD 

[DunkinDave]

He's using the same vocal technique now as he was in 2002 - that's all I'm saying.

Again, you can believe what you want, but I was there.? In the venue.? As were many other posters.? His voice is very different from '02.? I know because I was also there, in Hartford, in '02.? You can want to believe otherwise, but...that's the fact of the matter.

Dave...go to a show.? Then give your opinion.? Because until you do......your opinion is as flawed as the source you're basing it on.

I'm glad you had a fun time, but the bootlegs don't lie.

Perhaps you're regarding the concert as better than it actually was?

That seems to be a problem with people on this forum - Axl could go outside and sneeze, and 10 fans will run over and say "MAN - THAT WAS THE BEST SNEEZE EVER!".

And then two of them would post a thread on HTGTH about it.

Axl's present voice is flawed - the "rasp" as you all call it has nothing to do with his Illusion-era vocal technique. There is no "super-hybrid Illusion/2002 voice" as you're all making it out to be.

I'm a singer myself. From the low quality boots of the May 12th show, it seemed he had went back to his Illusion-era technique. But on the 15th, that technique was nowhere to be found.

Take it from a guy who has a vast array of Guns N' Roses bootlegs spanning 20 years.

[pilferk]

Here's hoping SB's show up eventually.

Either that, or an official DVD?

Yeah.

I was thinking more like "in the interim before the DVD" sorta thing. ?Just to hold us over, ya know. ?

[pilferk]

I'm glad you had a fun time, but the bootlegs don't lie.

Perhaps you're regarding the concert as better than it actually was?

That seems to be a problem with people on this forum - Axl could go outside and sneeze, and 10 fans will run over and say "MAN - THAT WAS THE BEST SNEEZE EVER!".

And then two of them would post a thread on HTGTH about it.

Axl's present voice is flawed - the "rasp" as you all call it has nothing to do with his Illusion-era vocal technique. There is no "super-hybrid Illusion/2002 voice" as you're all making it out to be.

I'm a singer myself. From the low quality boots of the May 12th show, it seemed he had went back to his Illusion-era technique. But on the 15th, that technique was nowhere to be found.

Take it from a guy who has a vast array of Guns N' Roses bootlegs spanning 20 years.

Actually, bootlegs do lie.? Especially when they're crowd recordings which, as a source, are flawed by nature, and where the vocals are pushed back and blended with crowd noise. Hell, to see that they lie compare some of the SB's from '02 to the same show crowd recordings.? Huge difference.

Perhaps YOU are making a judgement without proper information.....because, in case you haven't noticed, many more people, especially those actually there, are sharing MY opinion.? Not that popularity of opinion is the most important factor, but...when someone who was not there, and who is using a flawed source, is confronted with that sort of majority...perhaps it's time to reserve judgement til you actually get to a show.

Take it from a guy who's seen them live 7 times, with all the various incarnations, since 1987....and who has various bootlegs ranging from the same time frame.

His voice was very different than it was in '02.? It is also different than it was in '92-'93.

His vocal technique was different from both '02 and '93, and it's sound is akin to the two mixed together, with the pitch not being as high as '02, but there being more of the "rasp" from '93.? Having HEARD it, first hand, I can vouch for the fact it exists.

Again dave, until you GET to a show....your "opinion" isn't real well founded.? And unless you have an SB of the shows you'd like to share...the boots out there aren't good enough to provide much foundation to base it on.

Edit: Oh, and I would venture that the "problem" with some people on this forum is they jump to rash conclusions, with little or flawed evidence, simply to support their inherent bias (be it pro-Axl bias or con-Axl bias).

[requiem156]

He's using the same vocal technique now as he was in 2002 - that's all I'm saying.

Again, you can believe what you want, but I was there.? In the venue.? As were many other posters.? His voice is very different from '02.? I know because I was also there, in Hartford, in '02.? You can want to believe otherwise, but...that's the fact of the matter.

Dave...go to a show.? Then give your opinion.? Because until you do......your opinion is as flawed as the source you're basing it on.

I'm glad you had a fun time, but the bootlegs don't lie.

Perhaps you're regarding the concert as better than it actually was?

That seems to be a problem with people on this forum - Axl could go outside and sneeze, and 10 fans will run over and say "MAN - THAT WAS THE BEST SNEEZE EVER!".

And then two of them would post a thread on HTGTH about it.

Axl's present voice is flawed - the "rasp" as you all call it has nothing to do with his Illusion-era vocal technique. There is no "super-hybrid Illusion/2002 voice" as you're all making it out to be.

I'm a singer myself. From the low quality boots of the May 12th show, it seemed he had went back to his Illusion-era technique. But on the 15th, that technique was nowhere to be found.

Take it from a guy who has a vast array of Guns N' Roses bootlegs spanning 20 years.

Don't be absurd - the Illusion tour "technique" was what I would call full-on vocal abuse. He screamed way too much and sacrificed pretty much any of the finesse he had circa Appetite and earlier. If you listen to the end of Rocket Queen on Appetite, as I'm sure we've all done a lot, his voice is actually cleaner on the higher parts than it is during the choruses. He was able to relax his throat and jaw and just let those high notes out. By the Illusion albums and tour, he was using way too much pressure from his diaphragm, and never relaxing his throat at all - hence the occasional effect of more than one note(which suggests that he had nodes on his vocal cords at the time).

Honestly, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but in terms of actual correct singing, the 2002 tour was head and shoulders above any of the Illusion era stuff. He is using a little more grit now than he was then(I was at the 5/15 show), and there is no question that he is pushing it harder, but he is also very smart about reining it in when he doesn't need it. I would say that Monday's show was the best live vocal performance I've ever heard him give, and that includes numerous boots, the Tokyo shows, the Paris show and seeing them in person in '93.

edit: For those that prefer the '92-93 vocal approach, consider that there is literally no way to maintain any kind of longevity with that style of singing. The fact that Axl can still hit all of his notes should be something to appreciate, not critique from every possible angle. Can you picture Chris Cornell hitting all the notes from Jesus Christ Pose in Audioslave? Maybe, but not without altering his technique substantially.