Metallica thread

[jimmythegent]

again, I ask you to not look at the longevity of career nor specific album sales
this is not about blind hero-worship, check my prior posts and you'll see that is not the case at all, I offer very balanced opinions - I happen to believe what Im saying here.
I happen to love Metallica - all i am saying is that Guns made a bigger impact to the wider mainstream culture (and bringing up Hootie is silly and weak point frankly, you could also add Britney or Shania if you're to apply that rationale) - i made reference to Nirvana and Eminem to provide examples - not only huge record sales, but huge impact on popular culture through their music and the press they received. Notorious, controversial, topical and vital - not to mention hugely influential.

Guns were a legendary band in their heyday - between 87-91 they had a golden air about them, like you could sense the legend building by the day - very few bands/acts acheive this

If i mis-stated facts in that list, my mistake.
I dont agree with everything on it but it does contribute to some of my argument.

There is no doubt that GNR was a legendary band in their heyday but so was Metallica. In fact, Metallica are still considered a legendary band and is looked upon as a huge influence on the metal genre. GNR doesn't quite reach that level where most in the genre lists them as an influence. I think they definitely would have gotten there if they continued on, though.

You can't say you don't agree with everything on that list and then ?present it as if its factual. Do you think Bon Jovi was bigger and more influential than GNR? If you say no, then that proves that list means nothing. ?You can't pick and choose what is factual and what is not.

I never presented it as fact - there is no way to ascertain such a thing
it is a list that was compiled that backed up my argument, was referring to 2 bands in the list(Metallica/GNR).

That is the nature of such lists (as Im sure you are aware), so I feel no explanation is required as to why I posted it as I never stated it as 'factual' as I assumed people would realise that lists of this nature cannot be deemed 'factual' but opinion/stats based. When I referred that to "mis-stated facts" I referred to the mention of the US/UK charts, not the list itself. (although thats plain to see)

You hit the nail on the head by saying Metallica "is looked upon as a huge influence on the metal genre".
That is true, absolutely.The difference here is that GN'R truly transcended all genres and categories to influence and forever imprint popular culture - I don't think you can realistically state the same of Metallica.

[Mattman]

Shout at the Devil was a great album. It was a very aggressive, metal album for its time. "Knock em dead, kid" and "looks that kill" are heavy! And of course the title track!

"Shout At The Devil" is not a heavy song.  It's a slow, Aerosmith-type bluesy rocker, that just seems heavy on the surface because of the quasi-Satanic lyrics.  Not that it's a bad song at all.  I just think it's a little overrated.

Then, in Theater of Pain, they put out "Home sweet home", among other weak, commercial songs.

Personally, I love that album.  I like the glam image, the bluesy tones they insert here and there, the intelligent lyrics, and the down-home feel of songs like "Raise Your Hands To Rock".

Girls, Girls, Girls had 2 decent songs and the rest were trash.

Okay, you can't tell me that the rest of the songs on Girls, Girls, Girls were THRASH.  Are you kidding me?  There is not a single song on that album that sounds anything remotely like thrash metal.  It's a bluesy glam metal album meant for partying.  That's why you have tunes like "Bad Boy Boogie" on it.  And let's not forget "You're All I Need", a ballad that has NOTHING to do with thrash.  What have you been smoking?  And besides, I thought you were trying to argue that the Crue slowly got LESS heavy over the 80s.  Why are you now claiming that Girls, Girls, Girls was thrash? 

Finally, Dr. Feelgood was an attempt to get back to being heavy, but they only filled it up with groove and downtuned guitars, the heaviness wasn't there.

I don't think they were even trying to be "heavy" on that album.  I mean, it was just a good commercial hard rock album, and that's what they were trying to do.  The lyrics were their usual stuff about sex and drugs; there was no attempt to be "heavy" there, like Shout at the Devil.  I will say that they filled it with groove and downtuned guitars, but they weren't trying to do that to be heavy; it just furthered their traditional thunk metal sound.

I really don't see how you can think Motley Crue was a heavy band or compare them to Metallica.  Metallica had extremely hard, heavy, fast metal songs that dealt with things like war and death.  Motley Crue had grooving hard rock anthems that were made for partying.

[Mattman]

You hit the nail on the head by saying Metallica "is looked upon as a huge influence on the metal genre".
That is true, absolutely.The difference here is that GN'R truly transcended all genres and categories to influence and forever imprint popular culture - I don't think you can realistically state the same of Metallica.

Guns N' Roses, I think, definitely set the late 80s/early 90s standard for what a rock band sounds and looks like.  But Metallica had a greater concrete influence on the music scene as a whole.

[campos]

solo,riff too

[Walk]

There aren't many to choose from. I'd say fixxxer is the best song on there, followed by Devil's Dance. Everything else ranges from mediocre to horrible.

[Walk]

T R A S H. Not THRASH! 

Some Europeans call thrash metal trash metal, but I'm not from Europe. And I don't hear ANY blues (especially in the vein of Aerosmith) in Shout at the Devil, both the album and song. It's just good glam metal (as opposed to cock rock).

And Crue was never heavily groove based before Dr. Feelgood.

[Walk]

Metallica put out the first pure thrash album, which happened to be easy to listen to and digest. That's it. Most people agree Overkill was the first thrash metal band (that just didn't put out the first album), and other bands like Tankard were popping up in Germany at the same time as Metallica.

Also, Judas Priest had some thrashy moments earlier, as well. The point is, while Metallica can claim to be influential , they aren't innovative.

Guns weren't influential, but I do believe they were an innovative band. None of the other glam bands made songs like November Rain (I want to hear the 20+ minute original!!!). I think we'll get some really unique music when CD comes out.

Also, influence should be determined better. Ozzy Osbourne said he wanted to be like the Beatles, but Black Sabbath sounded nothing like the Beatles. Although Slayer allegedly changed their sound due to seeing Metallica, their creativity was their own. It was just Metallica's "spur" that got them moving. So, it can be debated how truly influential Metallica was. Influence is an overrated concept, anyway.

Overall, GnR's innovation > Met's influence

[Saul]

I sense a little hypocrisy here.  How does it go?  "Pray tell - where are you getting your numbers?  From your ass?"  Do you know James' peers and hang out with the "experts" surveying their opinions?

Just from doing alot of reading in magazines and online sources where their peers talk about them. I dont ever read a bad word about james from nobody .. he is always given major respect while axl just always seems to be that guy that "most deserves a smakc in the face" sort of thing.

[Metallifuck]

This Metallica vs. Axl (not really GnR) topic is a tad pointless seeing as they don't really parallel at all apart from huge populartiy.

Also, in 'the day' GnR had 3 albums whereas Metallica had already released 5 solid albums, so the argument is hardly fair, and no one say 'but those 3 GnR albums > Metallica's first 5', because that is ludicrous.

[Lord Kayoss]

I sense a little hypocrisy here.? How does it go?? "Pray tell - where are you getting your numbers?? From your ass?"? Do you know James' peers and hang out with the "experts" surveying their opinions?

Just from doing alot of reading in magazines and online sources where their peers talk about them. I dont ever read a bad word about james from nobody .. he is always given major respect while axl just always seems to be that guy that "most deserves a smakc in the face" sort of thing.

I agree on the Axl comments but those same people still don't deny the talent that he has - they just hate giving him the credit because his behavior over the years makes him hard to like.  I still say love him or hate him - he's got James beat.

[Hammy]

Carpe Diem Baby

[Hammy]

METALLICA drummer Lars Ulrich has confirmed the heavy metal band will be immortalized in a computer game. Poking fun at last year's (04) Metallica documentary Some Kind Of Monster, Ulrich has also made it clear there will be no group therapy levels in the game. The 41-year-old says, "With the computer game, there is definitely truth to that (appearing). "It won't just be a game where you have to get Lars and James and Kirk through the tour without breaking up, or any of that horses**t." However, Ulrich has dismissed the possibility of a Metallica greatest hits album: "As far as a hits record is concerned, that's not something we're entertaining."

 

[Izzy]

However, Ulrich has dismissed the possibility of a Metallica greatest hits album: "As far as a hits record is concerned, that's not something we're entertaining." [/i]

As if Metallica will have any say in whether the record label churns out a GH.

I think they are way over due for a (good) greatest hits package. Not that i really care, after all i own all their albums anyway. A GH for Metallica would be curious considering they never even released a single from their first three albums.....

[jgfnsr]

If James isn't jealous of Axl somehow, why does he manage to bring the him up time after time?? It's like the whole situation with Vince Neil.? There's like this neverending grudge both of 'em have against the guy, even though their association with Axl and the old band was years ago.? And since I'm bringing up people, I think the same thing went for Kurt Cobain.

I think all three of them have (had in Cobain's case? ) feelings of inadequacy in relation to Axl.? Which is understandable, as none of them ever held a candle to him...

I'm sorry that's just plain stupid. So everyone who mentions Axl is just jealous? Give me a break. There is no reason to put someone down to make Axl look better.? Someday you'll realize people mention Axl because they are calling him out on his awful behavior. Except in this case James wasn't even bashing Axl. He was just doing an impression of him. That has zero to do with jealousy.

No, not everyone who mentions Axl is jealous.

However certain people who tend to mention Axl over and over again, always in a negative fashion, just might be.? ?

[metallex78]

A GH for Metallica would be curious considering they never even released a single from their first three albums.....

I'm sure I've seen Whiplash, Jump In The Fire and Creeping Death as singles on LP, but I could be mistaken.

[Mattman]

T R A S H. Not THRASH!?

Wow, I cannot believe I did not notice that.  I swear I looked at that phrase a few times before writing my big thing on it. 

Yep, that would make a lot more sense.  Even though I disagree with you.

[Mr. Dick Purple]

Why James Hetfield hates so much Axl?

Jealousy. Axl doesn't have St Anger, Load and Reload around his neck.

I actually like Load, I think I am the only one.

Well you're not alone ask Dead Horse he loves that album, anyway I just like a few songs maybe 2 or 3 not more.

Why James Hetfield hates so much Axl?

Jealousy. Axl doesn't have St Anger, Load and Reload around his neck.

yeah. jealousy. thats exactly what it is.    Nevermind the fact that metallica is/was and probably always will be a much bigger band then GNR , old or new and that metallica has sold way over 90 million albums and was the biggest "heavy" band of all the 90's in terms of sales and tours. 
Yep , I'm sure hetfield is SO jealous of axl rose. 
I think if one was to be jealous of the other it would be axl jealous of james. James has sold more albums , generated more money on tour , battled his demons and was able to release another album , has a wife and children and after 20 years has kept Metallica going strong. Come on bro .. axl cant even touch that with a ten foot pole.

I guess this thing It's nothing about jelous, cause I think both of them had achieve what they had in their minds to do, IMO, I guess they don't care what one band has done at all.

Furthermore, Q magazine (a reputable, highly respected publication), compiled a list of the biggest bands of all time.
The criteria was based on Album sales, tours, biggest single etc..
Each band's placing was allocated according to a points system that measured sales of their biggest album, the scale of their biggest headlining show and the total number of weeks spent on the US and UK album chart.


Heres the top 20 :

1.Pink Floyd
2.Led Zeppelin
3.Rolling Stones
4.U2
5.Queen
6.Dire Straits
7.Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band
8.The Beatles
9.Bob Marley and the Wailers
10.Fleetwood Mac
11.The Eagles
12.The Beach Boys
13.Oasis
14.Bon Jovi
15.Guns N' Roses
16.Nirvana
17.Genesis
18.Bee Gees
19.Metallica
20.Boston
Like I said this is a reputable magazine and I think this list is fairly accurate

Except I wouldn't consider Bon Jovi to have been at any time bigger than Guns N' Roses or Metallica. (Sorry D...)

Agree on that!! for God sake, Bon Jovi bigger band than GNR? c'mon not even in their wildest dreams. Once aging sorry D.

One thing that you might want to think about in the ongoing Metallica vs. Guns N' Roses debate is influence.  I think that even though they're the two best hard rock/metal bands of the last 20 years, Metallica has had a far, far greater influence on young bands than Guns N' Roses.  First of all, there was their initial influence back in the 80s, when they put out Kill 'Em All and became the first and most popular thrash band in San Francisco, becoming the prime movers of the whole thrash metal scene.  Then you've got their influence on hard rock/metal in the 90s and 2000s.  Almost every "heavy" band out there today will claim to have been influenced by Metallica.  You can see a lot of James Hetfield vocal clones out there (like Sully from Godsmack, or the bald dude from Disturbed).  James' vocal style was actually the prime reason why rock vocalists moved from the high-pitched 70s/80s style into a deeper and more gruff tone.

Guns N' Roses, on the other hand, were and still are vastly popular, but they didn't have nearly as much musical influence as Metallica on new bands.  Guns were really the last and best of the traditional hard rock bands, but even though (in my opinion) they perfected the Aerosmith/Stones hard rock cocktail and the sleaze metal of the Sunset Strip bands, they really came at the tail end of it.  So while people will profess love for GN'R, their influence isn't as solid.  There were never any squawking Axl clones, or any top-hatted Slash replicas.  I think the only really huge band that had any influence by GN'R was Skid Row.

Look at it this way.  Metallica caused the birth of many new subgenres of rock music.  Guns N' Roses were the last gasp of another.

Excellent post, I think exactly the same, Im going to quote one thing, IMO, Metallica's music has more influence in nowadays musicians just because is more simple to play, meanwhile GNR music is more complex, thats why there not AXL looks like or slashes wanna be's, again I'm saying, IMO. 

If James isn't jealous of Axl somehow, why does he manage to bring the him up time after time?  It's like the whole situation with Vince Neil.  There's like this neverending grudge both of 'em have against the guy, even though their association with Axl and the old band was years ago.  And since I'm bringing up people, I think the same thing went for Kurt Cobain.

I think all three of them have (had in Cobain's case  ) feelings of inadequacy in relation to Axl.  Which is understandable, as none of them ever held a candle to him...

I'm sorry that's just plain stupid. So everyone who mentions Axl is just jealous? Give me a break. There is no reason to put someone down to make Axl look better.  Someday you'll realize people mention Axl because they are calling him out on his awful behavior. Except in this case James wasn't even bashing Axl. He was just doing an impression of him. That has zero to do with jealousy.

No, not everyone who mentions Axl is jealous.
However certain people who tend to mention Axl over and over again, always in a negative fashion, just might be.   

Yes exactly what I was going to say, if people keep reminding or making fun of the same person I do think they can be jelous of that person, or simply just think too much about this person 

[Saul]

Excellent post, I think exactly the same, Im going to quote one thing, IMO, Metallica's music has more influence in nowadays musicians just because is more simple to play

what?!!     

[Captain Obvious]

Excellent post, I think exactly the same, Im going to quote one thing, IMO, Metallica's music has more influence in nowadays musicians just because is more simple to play

what?!!     

Are we talking about the same Metallica? That is insane.

[Saul]

Excellent post, I think exactly the same, Im going to quote one thing, IMO, Metallica's music has more influence in nowadays musicians just because is more simple to play

what?!!     

Are we talking about the same Metallica? That is insane.

LOL , my thoughts exactly!!