Metallica thread

[Gunner80]

Most of Metallica's success was in America, Gn'R was huge worldwide and still are.  Gn'R sold 80 million albums between 87/98 Metallica have sold 90 million from 81/05.

[Mattman]

Right, because James would rather be holed up in some recording studio for over a decade. I guess releasing successful albums just isn't as impressive as being unable to hold a band together, being unable to release an album, and being unable to hold a tour together. I'm sure James is green with envy.

Boo-yeah!  Even if you like Axl more than James, you can't possibly tell anyone that James is jealous of him.  I mean, that's just ludicrous, as Acquiesce pointed out wonderfully.

[Mattman]

Well, personally, while I love the experimentation Metallica did on Load, I consider St. Anger to be more of a failed experiment.? I say, if Metallica wants to make really angry music, they SHOULD do a classic thrash-style album again.? If nothing else, I'd like to hear them do that just to shut up the purists.? But besides that, I'm sure that now, at their age, they could put out a new thrash album and have it be true to where they are in their lives right now.?

I think the shining example to hold up is Megadeth's The System Has Failed.? With that album, Mustaine struck the perfect balance.? It had old school thrashers, certain catchier mainstream metal numbers, and lyrics that ranged from the political to the deeply personal.? Megadeth fans by and large came off pretty satisfied with that record.? If Metallica could do something like that, they'd have it made in the shade.?

I say to Metallica: if you want to do softer music like on Load, by all means do it.? But if you want to make aggressive heavy music, don't try to copy System of a Down.? You're METALLICA.

[jgfnsr]

Just out of curiosity I looked up the latest sales at RIAA (U.S. sales) and compared Guns N' Roses and Metallica...

Metallica

Kill 'em All - 3 million
Ride the Lightning - 5 million
Master of Puppets - 6 million
And Justice for All - 8 million
Metallica - 14 million
Load - 5 million
Reload - 3 million
Garage Inc. - 5 million
Metallica S&M - 5 million
St. Anger - 2 million

Total - 56 million

Guns N' Roses

Appetite for Destruction - 15 million
GN'R Lies - 5 million
Use Your Illusion I - 7 million
Use Your Illusion II - 7 million
The Spaghetti Incident - 1 million
Guns N' Roses: Live Era '87-'93 - 1 million
Guns N' Roses: Greatest Hits - 1 million

Total - 37 million

Well...at least Appetite still has James and the boys beat.? Damnit Axl, release Chinese Democracy!?

[Walk]

Shout at the Devil was a great album. It was a very aggressive, metal album for its time. "Knock em dead, kid" and "looks that kill" are heavy! And of course the title track! Then, in Theater of Pain, they put out "Home sweet home", among other weak, commercial songs. Girls, Girls, Girls had 2 decent songs and the rest were trash. Finally, Dr. Feelgood was an attempt to get back to being heavy, but they only filled it up with groove and downtuned guitars, the heaviness wasn't there.

It completely mirrors Metallica. They became popular by putting out trash and they were never able to get heavy again, even when they tried.

And if you need bass that bad, buy a good subwoofer. I don't notice any problems with Justice's bass.

[MeanBone]

of course metallica are in the same league, and of course they are a huge ass band that has a massive follwing worldwide. anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't really know what they're talking about. metallica were already Huge back in 1991-93. Metallica and GNr are the most relevant bands in Hard and Heavy of the 90s, the difference is, metallica is still around to kick some ass every single night they can. they work as a family, Gn'r was a disfunctional family...
n e wayz. not all hope is lost. we're still hoping for CHI DEM and World Domination 

[leesixxrose]

Somehow i knew this would turn into a Metallica vs GnR thread.....

[disease51883]

I just thought I'd weigh in with my slightly informed opinion and fuzzy memory. Everyone else has. I'd say that GNR was the bigger band in, say, 1991 by a small margin, and of course, Metallica's the bigger band in 2005 by a huge margin. And if you compare each band's most popular work (what bands are basically measured by a lot of the time), Appetite is bigger than the black album. If the Beatles had stayed together throughout the 70s, and put out critical and commercial failure after failure while the Rolling Stones stayed big, that doesn't change the fact that the Beatles were the bigger band during each band's prime.

[leesixxrose]

I just thought I'd weigh in with my slightly informed opinion and fuzzy memory. Everyone else has. I'd say that GNR was the bigger band in, say, 1991 by a small margin, and of course, Metallica's the bigger band in 2005 by a huge margin. And if you compare each band's most popular work (what bands are basically measured by a lot of the time), Appetite is bigger than the black album. If the Beatles had stayed together throughout the 70s, and put out critical and commercial failure after failure while the Rolling Stones stayed big, that doesn't change the fact that the Beatles were the bigger band during each band's prime.

True unbiasd words.....

[greekmule]

Man i love Axl Rose but I think that the majority of this board is living on another planet!

Axl Rose has written some pretty good songs like estranged and breakdown but James Hetfield has written almost by himself the entire catalogue of Metallica, the biggest band of the last 20 years.

Axl Rose will always be remembered as a great famous handsome  frontman but he can't be compared to the man who has influenced the rock metal scene more than anybody during the last 2 decades and that is James!

[Freya]

And whats worst is the fact that these days you have that old gnr band broken up into seperate enities , one is semi successful (velvet revolver) the other (the new gnr) is pretty much a long running joke without a punchline. Whereas metallica is still a MAJOR tour draw , sold a bunch of albums with St.Anger and has SURVIVED band members leaving , in-fighting , drug addictions , rehab etc etc .. say what you want about them hiring a therapist but if you watch SKOM you will see that in hindsight it was the best move the band coulda made both personally and professionally.

I haven't seen it yet, but to me it sounds like a very bad idea.  They filmed themselves as a parody of what an old, spoiled rock band turns into.  Band therapy?  I can't get over that.  Who cares if the band is still together if they suck?

Anyway back to the point, which is at that time , in terms of name recognition, in terms of tabloid/media coverage and tiers on the celebrity circuit GnR were bigger stars.  No question.  That's not taking anything away from how loved Metallica was at that time.

[Saul]

I haven't seen it yet, but to me it sounds like a very bad idea. 

Your 1st 5 words were enough. You havent seen it yet , exactly. SKOM is the kinda thing most bands with the success of metallica just wouldnt have the guts to do.

[Metallifuck]

I haven't seen it yet, but to me it sounds like a very bad idea. They filmed themselves as a parody of what an old, spoiled rock band turns into. Band therapy? I can't get over that. Who cares if the band is still together if they suck?

I don't understand why some people are whining about how Metallica (Lars, Kirk and James) had therapy to bring themselves together, if some of you were in the same situation and you had the money it could be a reasonable option to you, whatever your situation is. Also, this is a bit different but, didn't Axl have a physcayatrist (sp.?) to help him before he went on stage a few years ago? And aren't you glad he did? (I'm not comparing the release of St. Anger to New GnR by the way)

But in general it was a good thing for James to do IMO because they are still a good live band and still play classic songs.   

[Lord Kayoss]

on a side note as much as i love gnr and axl there is no possibility that james hetfield is jealous of axl rose. when u are the frontman of the most successful? and influential band of the last 20 years (that is metallica) i think you are not jealous of any other musician

Past tense.  Now, he along with Metallica is the laughing stock of the rock/metal scene and has been for along time.  Everything from Crap (Load), Re-Crap (Re-Load) , the fan-backlash from the war against Napster, and St. Crap (St. Anger) - the guy has plenty to feel shitty about.  Couple that with the fact that Axl Rose was a part of what many hail as the greatest rock band ever and is considered one of the greatest and most influential frontmen of all time no matter what he does in the present - I could see some jealousy on Hetfield's part.

[Saul]

on a side note as much as i love gnr and axl there is no possibility that james hetfield is jealous of axl rose. when u are the frontman of the most successful  and influential band of the last 20 years (that is metallica) i think you are not jealous of any other musician

Past tense.  Now, he along with Metallica is the laughing stock of the rock/metal scene and has been for along time.  Everything from Crap (Load), Re-Crap (Re-Load) , the fan-backlash from the war against Napster, and St. Crap (St. Anger) - the guy has plenty to feel shitty about.  Couple that with the fact that Axl Rose was a part of what many hail as the greatest rock band ever and is considered one of the greatest and most influential frontmen of all time no matter what he does in the present - I could see some jealousy on Hetfield's part.

   Another case of blind-axlism ... Load sold well , re-load sold well , st.anger has sold well .. the napster thing .. gosh , the band wanted to control how their songs were presented and sold and not given away. Oh MY! 

Let's put it this way .. since 1993 Metallica has recorded and toured and recorded and toured , won awards , made many new fans and just keeps going and going .. axl rose , since 1993 has done what? One failed tour , one TV appearance that has become a huge JOKE outside GNR fan boards (actually alot of the gnr messageboard members have mocked that performance) and officially released ONE song .... this admist of constant member changes and a never ending recording session at some dark studio.

Hopefully axl can turn it around but right now GNR or axl more generally is a long running joke of the music industry with the no punchline .. it's sad really.

To sit here and see people compare gnr , old or new , to Metallica of all bands is absurd. 

[Lord Kayoss]

Damn - I figured the Metallica junkies were gonna storm after that post but that was faster than I expected.

You present some good facts, however, as I said no matter what Axl has done recently his legacy has remained intact.  Most people have already forgotten the 2002 VMA's and the tour and still tend to reflect on the history he has made.

Metallica on the other hand are a far cry and a mere shell of what they once were.  With each release they lose more and more fans as well as album sales.  Sure the sales look good compared to an average band - but going from selling 18 million copies of the Black album to the St Anger numbers is quite a tumble.  Besides, basing your opinion of a band off of album sales is a one-dimensional way of looking at it.  I was mainly referring to the general reactions you get when their name is brought up to most metal-fans from casual to hardcore.  It's pretty amusing and proves as I said - they are the laughing stock of the metal scene and have been for years now.  For alot of people the 80's version of Metallica means nothing anymore.  People just can't get the silly, goofy, faggish antics and music of today out of their minds long enough to remember how cool they USED to be.

And about Napster - you don't have to justify their reasoning to me.  I didn't say I disagreed with their protest - just pointed out that no matter how you look at it or try to defend them for it - it ultimately hurt them alot more than winning the war would've ever helped (and they didn't win - while Napster temporarily fell there were always other free peer-to-peer sites).

[Saul]

Damn - I figured the Metallica junkies were gonna storm after that post but that was faster than I expected.

I'm no more a metallica junkie then I am a GNR junkie .. it's just that the arguement is silly.

You present some good facts, however, as I said no matter what Axl has done recently his legacy has remained intact.  Most people have already forgotten the 2002 VMA's and the tour and still tend to reflect on the history he has made.

Most people forgot about the VMA's and 2002 tour while it was happening to be honest. The 2002 tour was a disgrace attendance wise. No promoter has ever had to pull the plug on metallica due to poor ticket sales , ever.

Metallica on the other hand are a far cry and a mere shell of what they once were.  With each release they lose more and more fans as well as album sales.

Metallica are a far cry and a mere shell of what they once were? Man , Axl is the only original member of GNR left and havent released anything in over ten years. Now THAT is a far cry and a mere shell of the once powerful GNR if there ever was one!

 

Sure the sales look good compared to an average band - but going from selling 18 million copies of the Black album to the St Anger numbers is quite a tumble.  Besides, basing your opinion of a band off of album sales is a one-dimensional way of looking at it.

The music climate has changed so much since the black album .. bands arent selling like days of old and "POP" synching has killed pure rock bands.

 

I was mainly referring to the general reactions you get when their name is brought up to most metal-fans from casual to hardcore.  It's pretty amusing and proves as I said - they are the laughing stock of the metal scene and have been for years now.

Waitasec .. are you talking about axl or metallica? Cause you know as well as I do that Axl at this point in time is the bigger laughing stock outta those two. Come on. Everybody and thir grandma takes stabs at axl when his name is brought up.


 

For alot of people the 80's version of Metallica means nothing anymore.  People just can't get the silly, goofy, faggish antics and music of today out of their minds long enough to remember how cool they USED to be.

And theres a huge group of gnr fans who say the exact same thing about modern GNR .. gone are the top hatted slash , replaced by the gothic robin , gone is the slender , beared rapsy voiced axl rose , replaced by baggy jersey , braided,dreaded predator like haired , botoxed up the wazoo axl rose. People say "remember how cool gnr used to be?"

And about Napster - you don't have to justify their reasoning to me.  I didn't say I disagreed with their protest - just pointed out that no matter how you look at it or try to defend them for it - it ultimately hurt them alot more than winning the war would've ever helped (and they didn't win - while Napster temporarily fell there were always other free peer-to-peer sites).

But they stuck to their guns and took a stance that "hey , we wrote and recorded these songs , we own them and we'll say how and where they get sold" no matter if it cost them millions of dollars or millions of fans .. that took balls.

peace bro. 

[Acquiesce]

Kayoss, your arguments are laughable at best. Metallica did manage to alienate a good portion of their fanbase, but they are still a fairly successful band. They still go multi-platinum with their albums and have successful tours. Their back catalogue is still pretty successful, too. In fact, the Black Album is selling at a faster rate than AFD and it's only a matter of time before it's total sales are greater than AFD's total sales. On top of that, Metallica is looked upon as a huge influence on the metal genre. So while they may be a joke to some, they have remained a largely successful band.

Your argument that St Anger's sales is a huge fall from The Black Album's is ridiculous. What band can consistently sell 14 million albums? No one. Not even legendary acts such as the Rolling Stones and Pink Floyd could generate those kind of sales on a consistant basis. It just doesn't happen. Let's not forget that St Anger was released in an age where sales in rock music as a whole are down. So it is ridiculous to think Metallica would generate those type of sales. Chinese Democracy most likely won't generate those type of sales. In fact, it will be lucky to generate half of the 7 million that each of the Illusions sold. Yet, somehow I doubt you would say anything negative about Axl/GNR when that happens.

Metallica has absolutely nothing to worry about this point and there is certainly no reason for them to be jealous of Axl. Axl hasn't been able to hold a band together for more than a few years at a time. He hasn't been able to release an original studio recording since the Illusions were released in 1991. His big comeback was a huge failure with a cancelled tour and a laughable performance at the VMA's. He is constantly ridiculed by his peers and the music media. He is now known as some crazy recluse who ruined his looks with too much plastic surgery. I think most people would much rather be in Metallica's position where they may be ridiculed for selling out, yet still remain successful rather than being in Axl's sorry position. People may laugh at Metallica, but they surely aren't the joke that Axl has become.

[jimmythegent]

Ask the person on the street who Axl Rose is and the majority will know. Ask after James Hetfield and decidedly fewer will know - this proves my point

Now thats hilarious! You've gone out on the street and DONE this I assume? Or are you pulling this info out of your ass? Why do you think more people would know who axl is? cause he hasnt released an album in over ten years? Cause he hasnt really been seen in public in over ten years? WHY on earth would more people know who axl rose is TODAY over James hetfield? I mean james is STILL out touring , STILL releasing albums , JUST released a critically accalimed MOVIE worldwide for gods sake!!!

Where do you get the notion that Axl Rose is still more well known by the public then james?!

I just gotta roll my eyes at that .. but it's your opinion , not a fact so peace to you and believe what you will.

 

Again, youve neglected to address the main thrust of my point which is that Guns N' Roses were a phenomenon unseen in the last 20 years (except perhaps Nirvana and Eminem) . They came out of nowhere, and got huge in a very short period of time - whereas Metallica had a slow-burning career that has undeniably reached huge heights/sales/poularity - no argument there. Guns sold more in a shorter period of time, were a truly international phenomena, were spoken of as the natural successors to the Stones and made headlines around the world. They were much bigger celebrities, and I repeat, made a much larger impression on  mainstream culture/ collective psyche.

Of course I havent psyhically conducted such a test Saul, but I truly believe more people would know who Axl is than James - simple as that. Regardless of Axl's inactivity the last decade, he was a much bigger star in his day than James has ever been and really made a huge mark.

[jimmythegent]

Furthermore, Q magazine (a reputable, highly respected publication), compiled a list of the biggest bands of all time.
The criteria was based on Album sales, tours, biggest single etc..
Each band's placing was allocated according to a points system that measured sales of their biggest album, the scale of their biggest headlining show and the total number of weeks spent on the US and UK album chart.


Heres the top 20 :

1.Pink Floyd
2.Led Zeppelin
3.Rolling Stones
4.U2
5.Queen
6.Dire Straits
7.Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band
8.The Beatles
9.Bob Marley and the Wailers
10.Fleetwood Mac
11.The Eagles
12.The Beach Boys
13.Oasis
14.Bon Jovi
15.Guns N' Roses
16.Nirvana
17.Genesis
18.Bee Gees
19.Metallica
20.Boston

Like I said this is a reputable magazine and I think this list is fairly accurate