Overproduction / Production of CD

[Fuckin' Gunner]

Overproducion: well, listen to RIR version of The Blues and thw 2002 version... expect for the Robin Finck solo, great in 2002, the song sounded really better in RIR3 (less production?)

About the song sound "dated": I agree with who thinks that good songs just can't be dated... listen Led Zep today, is i dated? NO!!!

[POPmetal]

The problem I have with the production of the UYI's is that they sound way too clean.  

Listen to AFD.  The instruments and Axl's vocals are just much more raw.  That separated GNR from most artists of the time.  Then they took a step back with the UYI's and its cleaned-up production.  All the sudden GNR sounded like they hired Poison's or Cinderella's production team to do their next album.

What is ironic is that when UYI came out, the trend was shifting back toward rawer production (with Nirvana and Pearl Jam leading the way)--something Axl/GNR had done years ago but abandoned with the Illusions.

It sounds like you're just regurgitating garbage that you read about or that somebody even less informed than yourself told you about. Cuz you certainly don't know what you're talking about when you say UYI sounds like they hired Poison's or Cinderella's productions team. Listen to Look What The Cat Dragged In. Its production is much worse than that of Appetite For Destruction. It comes down to how much money you have to produce an album. Of course UYI has more elaborate production than AFD. They were the biggest band in the world at the time, so they could afford to have better production than they were able to afford during Appetite. You can't expect a band to be stuck in its garage days forever. If you think GN'R has spent $13 mil to produce a raw garage band record, then prepare to be severely disappointed with Chinese Democracy. CD's production will be so clean, it'll make UYI's sound like a cesspool.

[MoonMax]

I still can't believe I'm into this discussion. People are trying to say anything but we are still talking different languages. Cause nobody explained what da hell is that overprudcion case. Maybe let's make one term. I start from myselfe

Overpruducion - the music material where there was more enginery-computers,mixers,filters etc. then human involvment.

Is it anything more?


If it comes to other songs which can't be dated, well, I think that it's more about the time, then songs themselfes. It's not only the song how it was written and all that stuff, but also the moment it start to be popular, producion, market, trends, generaly society, and mostly - the artist.

Cheers

MoonMax

[Hung Well]

POPmetal:

It sounds like you're just regurgitating garbage that you read about or that somebody even less informed than yourself told you about.  Cuz you certainly don't know what you're talking about when you say UYI sounds like they hired Poison's or Cinderella's productions team.

Clearly my point went over your head (or through it- considering its hollow).  UYI is simply too crisp sounding.  I'm listening a couple songs off Flesh and Blood by Poison at this moment.  Pure gloss rock.  In terms of how clean it sounds, it's miles apart from AFD, yet right in line with UYI...

It comes down to how much money you have to produce an album.

No.  I'm guessing Nirvana had plenty of money when they put out In Utero.  Did they clean up the production because they were the biggest band in the world?  No, it was kept it in line with their signature style on Nevermind.

[POPmetal]

POPmetal:

It sounds like you're just regurgitating garbage that you read about or that somebody even less informed than yourself told you about.  Cuz you certainly don't know what you're talking about when you say UYI sounds like they hired Poison's or Cinderella's productions team.

Clearly my point went over your head (or through it- considering its hollow).  UYI is simply too crisp sounding.  I'm listening a couple songs off Flesh and Blood by Poison at this moment.  Pure gloss rock.  In terms of how clean it sounds, it's miles apart from AFD, yet right in line with UYI...

It's natural to progress and strive to improve your production. Bruce Fairbrian (who is most famous for producing Aeromsth's Pump and Get a Grip) did Flesh and Blood and it shows. It's hands down their best album and a vast improvement over Look What the Cat Dragged in.

It comes down to how much money you have to produce an album.

No.  I'm guessing Nirvana had plenty of money when they put out In Utero.  Did they clean up the production because they were the biggest band in the world?  No, it was kept it in line with their signature style on Nevermind.

Yea, and that's why it sucks! In Utero can't even compare with Nevermind. I know of even big Nirvana fans who say it was a step back for music. It's so fake and contrived cuz everyone knows they had money to put in it, but instead put out a poorly produced piece of shit. Then it became a trend and that's why most of pop rock music has sucked ever since. I'm praying CD changes this again and knocks some sense into the industry. Poor production does not equal good music. Just listen to Poison's last album (Hollyweird) its production is even rawer than Appetite, or Nevermind, or Look What the Cat Dragged In, but it's still one of the worst records EVER made. Bottom line is: you can have good songs and poor production and the album can kick ass, you can have good songs and great production and the album will kick even more ass, but if you don't have the good songs, you can over or under produce all you want and your album is still gonna reek. It's the songs that matter most. Having good production is only the icing on the cake.

[grog mug]

Madagascar is the best new song.  If the "overproduction" of this album produces songs that sound like this, it will be worth the wait.

[Dont Try Me]

Madagascar is the best new song.  If the "overproduction" of this album produces songs that sound like this, it will be worth the wait.

right on man, right on!!  

[D]

for the year ive been on this board the word "overproduced" often comes up and it drives me insane

people sayin cD will suck cause it will be overproduced blah blah blah

but the people bitchin about CD being overproduced will be the same people that are currently bitching about COntraband being under produced


im a musician and i have no fuckin clue exactly what overproduced means, how the fuck can u over produce anything?

st anger was raw old school metal peopl ehated it

contraband is a raw rock record people complain

so what the hell do u consider something just right?


CD is coming soon i can feel it! by christmas we will have it! and its gonna kick ass! this board will be mayhem!

[outlawaxl]

I dont think you can "overproduce" an album either....

They mix and produce the album untill they get the sound the artist wants to have...

If you dont like the sound on the album then you dont like the album but its not "overproduced"

Metallica wanted St Anger to sound that way....  I personnally love that album...

The production on that album is consistant with the sound and type of music Metallica were trying to play....

people who say that the "cd will be overproduced" are just talking out of thier asses....

Production isnt about trying to change the sound.. its about trying to bring the sound to your speakers in the way the band wants you to hear it...  

you either like it or you dont... its not "over produced"



 

[Booker Floyd]

how the fuck can u over produce anything?

Adding a lot of production (such as vocal/musical effects) can turn people off.  For example, I love "The Blues" as a song.  I love the lyrics, the music, everything about the actual song.  However, I hate the synths on the 2002 tour version.  If the sappy whining synth line, and then theres  the big bright synths...If those synths find their way onto the studio version, Im sure people will point to that as overproduction.  Its certainly a personal opinion - If you love hard rock music with voice vocoder effects, keyboards, synths, etc., then you might not believe in overproduction.  But fans of hard rock in general probably dont care for that kind of stuff, as hard rock is traditionally a genre thats light on production effects.

Thats my main concern with the album - synthesizers.  But Marco Beltramis involvement (concerning orchestral arrangements), however, is intriguing and will hopefully lead to something remarkable.

[outlawaxl]

But Marco Beltramis involvement (concerning orchestral arrangements), however, is intriguing and will hopefully lead to something remarkable.

hey Booker,...Do you ever watch the TV Show "The Practice"

Marco did the Theme song for that TV show... I had never heard of the man untill i learned of his involvment in CD.

I watch "the practice" all the time and when i saw his name in the credits i started to listen in to the opening theme a bit more..

[SLCPUNK]

But Marco Beltramis involvement (concerning orchestral arrangements), however, is intriguing and will hopefully lead to something remarkable.

hey Booker,...Do you ever watch the TV Show "The Practice"

Marco did the Theme song for that TV show... I had never heard of the man untill i learned of his involvment in CD.

I watch "the practice" all the time and when i saw his name in the credits i started to listen in to the opening theme a bit more..

What does the theme sound like? Anything interesting?

[D]

i think the blues version at rio was the best

not cause of the synths but because of the tempo and how axl sang the beginnng verses


i want u guys that like straight r and r to make me a promise though

when CD comes out dont judge it as GNR afd straight rock n roll

judge it as the new experimental sound and style axl is shooting for

[Malcolm]

well my opinion on this is that a cd can and cant be overproduced.....take St.anger for example...i personally like that cd...but people complained that it was overprouced and stuff...thats the way they wanted it to sound....and if a song is overproduced it can take away from the lyrics..etc...and it will turn people away...jsut my opinion

[Falcon]

i want u guys that like straight r and r to make me a promise though

when CD comes out dont judge it as GNR afd straight rock n roll

judge it as the new experimental sound and style axl is shooting for

As the "overproduced" tag drives you insane, the "experimental" or "progressing/evolving" connotation makes me puke.

Nothing we've heard so far from that band falls under any of the above terms.

Hopefully the unheard material will fall under these terms, but until then,
forget it.


PS.  If someone even discusses quotes in Maddy as any bellcow to start some musical "change the face of music" revolution I will again, puke.

[Mikkamakka]

When I wrote that CD might overproduced I meant that if you spend too much time on an album it can lose its power. You want to make the perfect record, you play everything note by note, and then with the help of computers you match together it with nanosecond precision... There was a pianist, I don't remember his name, who spent years just to make one record. He played very short pieces to make it perfect, and then matched together, then he realised, it ain't perfect, so he played even smaller parts, and in the end he almost played only notes and then took the computers to match it. The record was aful, it lost every human aspect: while others' records were full of mistakes, but they played it really live, the perfectionist pianist's record missed the emotional aspect, it was like he recorded music for robots.

I don't say that CD will be an album for robots, but Tommy's interview where he mentioned Axl's minute preciosity made me worry again. Fuck, there are mistakes on AFD and UYI, mistakes on records of Led Zep, Queen, not to mention The Beatles. But those were genuine albums.  

[Skeba]

judge it as the new experimental sound and style axl is shooting for

I think CD will be judged on whether the music is good or not...

It will, of course, be compared to the older stuff, but in the end.. what will matter though... is whether it's good or not.

[F*ck Fear]

judge it as the new experimental sound and style axl is shooting for

I think CD will be judged on whether the music is good or not...

It will, of course, be compared to the older stuff, but in the end.. what will matter though... is whether it's good or not.

I agree 100% Us that believe in Axl will enjoy it if the material is good.
But there is always gonna be some dickhead that compares it to either old material or Contraband

[outlawaxl]

But Marco Beltramis involvement (concerning orchestral arrangements), however, is intriguing and will hopefully lead to something remarkable.

hey Booker,...Do you ever watch the TV Show "The Practice"

Marco did the Theme song for that TV show... I had never heard of the man untill i learned of his involvment in CD.

I watch "the practice" all the time and when i saw his name in the credits i started to listen in to the opening theme a bit more..

What does the theme sound like? Anything interesting?

its actually pretty cool... I know the season is over for the show but you can still catch it on Dish Network in the mornings.. I always listen to it and try to immagine how it would be used in a Rock Song with Axl singing...  Thats really the onley place i heard of this guy and that was by accident just coz he scored the intro to a favorite TV show of mine..

but yeah its kind of got a electric sound that goes up and down, up and down... its sooo hard to describe sounds but if you ever see the "the practice" check it out you can see the dudes name during the opening credits...

[darkmonth]

People HAVE to compare it against Axl's previous work.  Because otherwise there is no discussion.  Is it good?  Yes or No... there... thats the whole discussion... boring.   If we compare to his old stuff, we can see the direction he took and we can see what Axl has been moving to/from musically.  If we don't compare CD to AFD or UYI, we can't see how Axl has progressed or moved back (either way)