Why was my topic deleted?.

[Krispy Kreme]

I agree with you 100%--there is a huge difference between moderation and censorship, and indeed, between moderation and self-censorship. One need not be an academic to understand this basic difference. My point, which spoke directly to the thread, was that one has to exercise self-censorship (which entails thinking) when starting a thread. Why? Because some threads are deleted for no good reason at all. Arbitrarily, at the whim of? whoever is the moderator at the time. No reason, no basis, no consistency, just 'I do it because I can.' It has happened to me time and time again, especially in The Jungle, which should be the most lenient of all. Thus, one has to try to predict what will be an 'acceptable' thread to the mods and hope that one has guessed correctly.

Thus, I am not talking about staying on topic (I agree with that policy), and I am not talking about insults or other infractions, with which? I also agree. I am talking about the arbitrary use of 'power' by some mods to delete threads with no reason other than they can. That is a real problem I have encountered in The Jungle. And that is why there are frequent threads in the Admin section asking 'why was my thread deleted.'

Honestly, I've not seen a thread deleted, in any section, that didn't violate the rules.

The one mentioned by the OP, for example, was discussing gnfr. ?The rules clearly state that topic is a no no. ?No self-moderation there, other than to be able to understand the rules, which you agreed to when you created your account and took on the priviledge of being able to post here, and abide by them.

In the Jungle, for the longest time, political threads were (and may still be) considered a no no. ?And it said so in a post at the top of the page. ?Again, no self moderation other than understanding the rules and abiding by them.

That, of course, is not to say it hasn't happened. ?But the fact of the matter is that when the person POSTING a thread complains about it's deletion, and asserts it didn't violate any rules...you must admit the source is not exactly the most unbiased on the matter. ?Not knowing the content of the posts, it's tough for me to give you an objective view, too.

But it still leads us back to the fact that, if you disagree with the mods use of their power, why stay and complain when you know it will have absolutely zero effect? ?Unless you percieve that you are going to alert the rest of the membership to this percieved injustice?

So yours is the old 'shut up and take your medicine' option. Numerous people have asked  why Jews  who knew they were going to be gassed did nothing. I am NOT drawing a parallel here. What I am saying is that speaking out has  a function. Different people will define that function differently, but the fact is it  has a function. You seem to advocate the passive do-nothing approach. That may work for some people, but not for  me. Furthermore, I don't know where  you are  from, but the 'shut up' approach is not American political culture.

And  as for threads being deleted, I can tell you that almost every thread  I start in The Jungle gets  deleted and none has violated any kind of rule. It is just baseless arbitrary action. That is  just fact. Apparently, you are skeptical  as  to my arguments, and that is your right, and if you are lucky enough to be on the good side of the mods, and they let you be, good for  you. But mostly I am bewidlered by your implication that free  speech in the face of "injustice" is bad. But that  is your right, just as it is my right to speak out.

[Jim]

I can tell you that almost every thread  I start in The Jungle gets deleted and none has violated any kind of rule. It is just baseless arbitrary action. That is just fact.

If you were given a penny for every use of the word 'arbitrary' in this section in the past few days, you'd have... Well, more money than me. But I have no money right now.

Anyway... A list, if you would. It need not be exhaustive, since you have clearly experienced your threads being deleted on several occasions, but the majority of what you can remember would suffice.

Where I have deleted any of these theads that you've started, I'll give you the reason... as I am sure will any other moderator.

Oh and, for the record, no threads are ever deleted.

As for the Jews... Subtle. Good one. You would think that the only oppression in history was early twentieth century; hey, it's certainly your field.

[pilferk]

So yours is the old 'shut up and take your medicine' option. Numerous people have asked? why Jews? who knew they were going to be gassed did nothing. I am NOT drawing a parallel here. What I am saying is that speaking out has? a function. Different people will define that function differently, but the fact is it? has a function. You seem to advocate the passive do-nothing approach. That may work for some people, but not for? me. Furthermore, I don't know where? you are? from, but the 'shut up' approach is not American political culture.

And? as for threads being deleted, I can tell you that almost every thread? I start in The Jungle gets? deleted and none has violated any kind of rule. It is just baseless arbitrary action. That is? just fact. Apparently, you are skeptical? as? to my arguments, and that is your right, and if you are lucky enough to be on the good side of the mods, and they let you be, good for? you. But mostly I am bewidlered by your implication that free? speech in the face of "injustice" is bad. But that? is your right, just as it is my right to speak out.

In your acedemic pursuits have you ever, in fact, led the drama deparment?? Because your entire statement, above, is certainly a good piece of empassioned theater, that's for sure.

Yes, speaking out against a governement, or a company, or a public institution that you percieve MIGHT be acting in an immoral fashion, or has caused you some hardship, has merit.?It may, in some cases, even be considered your civic duty. It may even bring about change.? Doing so here does not, is not, and will not.? That's been made abundantly clear, has it not?? Because it is a privately owned and operated institution, it's content is solely at the discretion of the owner (jarmo) and those he appoints to monitor it (the mods).?He's doing nothing illegal. He's excersizing HIS right to run HIS "business" in any manner he sees fit, so long as it does not violate the laws in the place it is operated in.

 You are a guest in someone's "home", so to speak.? It's just common decency, manners, and common sense to respect their rules or, if you don't like them (or their actions), to disassociate yourself from them and leave.? It's not "take your medicine and shut up".? It's "why go to someone's house you dislike and piss on their carpet"?

In addition to that, if you DO have a disagreement over a matter of principle with an institution, or some other entity in which you can CHOOSE to associate, I find it curious that you would continue on with that association.? To me, that smacks of a lack of conviction.? If you are so offended by the mods "injustices", why would you continue to post here?? ?There are certainly an abundance of options out there. You've yet to actually address that question.? I wonder why that is so?

Again, the only reason I can see is you envision yourself some sort of crusader.? You can be quite sure that the posters here do not need you to point out the polices of the mods, or for you to "defend" them against those percieved injustices.? If, at some ponit, enough people feel as you do (which, in all honestly, doesn't seem to be the case...notice most of the "complaints" are from a very vocal, but very small, group of the same posters), that they have been "victims" of poor moderation, and they leave.....the forum will die.? So, in essence, LEAVING is actually a more effective way to fight your battle than your words are.? Even our colonial brethren knew when it was time to stop with the empassioned rhetoric and start fighting with actions.? Perhaps you've heard they do speak louder than words, at any rate?

If you think you are, on some level, "rallying the troops", so to speak......I'd invite you to look around. It's not working. 

On the subject of credibility, I have to, again, point out the obvious.? You've done nothing, whatesoever, in this thread or any other, to show you're credible.? You've provided no examples.? You've given no proof.? You have made accusations, to be sure.? But, given the situation, and your obvious "issues" with the mods here, it's tough to swallow you as a credible source of information.? Rather, you look like someone with an agenda to push....

And finally, as an academic, you should be aware that free speech has nothing, whatsoever, to do with a privately owned, privately operated, privately moderated forum on the internet.? Nothing. Your priveledge to post here, and every word you type, is at the discretion of the owner (even the ones you type which call into question the character of that owner and the mods he's chosen). Period. So bringing up such a point, in a discussion such as this, is not only irrelevant, it's a red herring.

[MCT]

In your acedemic pursuits have you ever, in fact, led the drama deparment?? Because your entire statement, above, is certainly a good piece of empassioned theater, that's for sure.

 

Red herring! I love it.

You just made my day. Thanks.

I don't think you're very good at pulling off colloquial writing though. Too many commas. And they become an annoyance as they just don't gel with your "voice".

Simply put, you're trying to exert too much control over the reader by throwing too much punctuation into the mix. Which I think is the direct result of you aiming for authenticity of speech.

My advice would be to concentrate on a more formal style, regardless of how pretentious that may feel. After all, that's clearly your strength.

Oh, and condense, condense, condense. Those internal asides are killing you. Which is another explanation for some of your unnecessary punctuation. And it's certainly a more tangible one.

In constructive spirit,

Me.

[pilferk]

 

Red herring! I love it.

You just made my day. Thanks.

I don't think you're very good at pulling off colloquial writing though. Too many commas. And they become an annoyance as they just don't gel with your "voice".

Simply put, you're trying to exert too much control over the reader by throwing too much punctuation into the mix. Which I think is the direct result of you aiming for authenticity of speech.

My advice would be to concentrate on a more formal style, regardless of how pretentious that may feel. After all, that's clearly your strength.

Oh, and condense, condense, condense. Those internal asides are killing you. Which is another explanation for some of your unnecessary punctuation. And it's certainly a more tangible one.

In constructive spirit,

Me.

Thanks for your critique of my writing style.

I'll file it right next to the empty coffee cup.

 

I left school long ago, and I write, in this forum (meaning HTGTH) especially, the way I feel comfortable writing.? "Constructive" critisism or not, I'm about as likely to change that style as jarmo is to change the way he moderates the board.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[MCT]

I stepped on a rake this morning at work, flipped out and got sent home. I'm just trying to entertain myself.

I'm going to have a nice clean debate with you soon though. For my own sake.

Take it easy...

EDIT - You know I was just out having a smoke, dissecting my motives and all that, when I realized exactly why I posted. So scrap the above. I retract it anyway.

See, I can't stand you. You annoy me to no end. But you put just enough of an effort into your writing that I find you interesting. And that's it. No reply needed.

[pilferk]

EDIT - You know I was just out having a smoke, dissecting my motives and all that, when I realized exactly why I posted. So scrap the above. I retract it anyway.

See, I can't stand you. You annoy me to no end. But you put just enough of an effort into your writing that I find you interesting. And that's it. No reply needed.

Great, glad to hear it.? The fixation is sort of flattering, I guess....

 

I, for one, don't find you very interesting at all.? In fact, I don't find you much of anything.....(which, I'm sure matters to you about as much as your opinion of me matters to me), until you start up with your fixation every so often.? Then I just find you odd.? And not odd in an interesting way.? Odd in a sort of boring way.? You attempt to play these "games".? And they're boring, unoriginal, and terribly pointless games.? Which is why I tend to just leave you to play solitaire (which, as one of the asides you seem to dislike, might be why you keep fixating ever so often...hmmmmm).

But I doubt the rest of the forum cares how you feel about me or vice versa....

So you have fun with that....hope you enjoy being annoyed and all that. Whatever gets ya through the night, ya know?

Oh, and since WE'RE not the topic of discussion on this thread...how about you take it to PM's?

And now I'll leave you to your game of solitaire.? Hope you get the aces!

[Mysteron]

GNFR is not an official site

Management know who runs it, but it causes no great harm

It is up to all individual forums how they want to treat it

[Hammy]

Hey dude welcome....

Your posts were not deleted just moved...

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=29725.msg567654#msg567654

That link is to your fave GN'R track thread, and your post was moved there since it was fairly similar, old and knew, it's still about your fave GN'R tracks, that's what the Dead Horse section is for, questions that have been asked tons of times, ya know the obvious ones, fave tracks, albums, members etc.

Edit: A good way to check where your posts have gone is to click on your profile and scroll down to 'Show the last posts of this person'

[MCT]

Great, glad to hear it.? The fixation is sort of flattering, I guess....

 

I, for one, don't find you very interesting at all.? In fact, I don't find you much of anything.....(which, I'm sure matters to you about as much as your opinion of me matters to me), until you start up with your fixation every so often.? Then I just find you odd.? And not odd in an interesting way.? Odd in a sort of boring way.? You attempt to play these "games".? And they're boring, unoriginal, and terribly pointless games.? Which is why I tend to just leave you to play solitaire (which, as one of the asides you seem to dislike, might be why you keep fixating ever so often...hmmmmm).

But I doubt the rest of the forum cares how you feel about me or vice versa....

So you have fun with that....hope you enjoy being annoyed and all that. Whatever gets ya through the night, ya know?

Oh, and since WE'RE not the topic of discussion on this thread...how about you take it to PM's?

And now I'll leave you to your game of solitaire.? Hope you get the aces!

And I thought I was defensive...

Anyway, you're obviously more mature than me seeing as how you've got the good sense to ignore me and only to show that grudge of yours when little more than mere happenstance brings us together.

I see now that I had absolutely no right to give you those pointers. And how I could have stooped so low I can't even begin to fathom.

So I would like to take this opportunity to send out my sincerest regrets to you and your family. I'm a monster. A vicious, belligerent, meaningless monster. And I'm sorry for that. I don't deserve to eat.

My apologies as well to Jarmo, the mods and indeed, the entire community, for smearing my hate filled feces, my vile graffiti, all over the forum. I should have to wipe my ass with plywood I'm such a heinous creature.

And now I'll break this intolerable tension, a tension that I created in a moment of malevolence, by stating forthright that I shall never antagonize you again, and that I'll do my best every single day to live up to your fine example in my quest to become a better human being.

Take care,

The Horrible Me.

[Krispy Kreme]

I can tell you that almost every thread? I start in The Jungle gets deleted and none has violated any kind of rule. It is just baseless arbitrary action. That is just fact.

If you were given a penny for every use of the word 'arbitrary' in this section in the past few days, you'd have... Well, more money than me. But I have no money right now.

Anyway... A list, if you would. It need not be exhaustive, since you have clearly experienced your threads being deleted on several occasions, but the majority of what you can remember would suffice.

Where I have deleted any of these theads that you've started, I'll give you the reason... as I am sure will any other moderator.

Oh and, for the record, no threads are ever deleted.

As for the Jews... Subtle. Good one. You would think that the only oppression in history was early twentieth century; hey, it's certainly your field.

The list is  rather long, but two most recent that come to mind:
The Jungle:
1. biggest (monetary) raise you ever received
2. I  hate when I get drunk and....

It is not the "majority" by far, but I am too busy to keep a list, so this is just a small representative sample.

[Krispy Kreme]

So yours is the old 'shut up and take your medicine' option. Numerous people have asked? why Jews? who knew they were going to be gassed did nothing. I am NOT drawing a parallel here. What I am saying is that speaking out has? a function. Different people will define that function differently, but the fact is it? has a function. You seem to advocate the passive do-nothing approach. That may work for some people, but not for? me. Furthermore, I don't know where? you are? from, but the 'shut up' approach is not American political culture.

And? as for threads being deleted, I can tell you that almost every thread? I start in The Jungle gets? deleted and none has violated any kind of rule. It is just baseless arbitrary action. That is? just fact. Apparently, you are skeptical? as? to my arguments, and that is your right, and if you are lucky enough to be on the good side of the mods, and they let you be, good for? you. But mostly I am bewidlered by your implication that free? speech in the face of "injustice" is bad. But that? is your right, just as it is my right to speak out.

In your acedemic pursuits have you ever, in fact, led the drama deparment?? Because your entire statement, above, is certainly a good piece of empassioned theater, that's for sure.

Yes, speaking out against a governement, or a company, or a public institution that you percieve MIGHT be acting in an immoral fashion, or has caused you some hardship, has merit.?It may, in some cases, even be considered your civic duty. It may even bring about change.? Doing so here does not, is not, and will not.? That's been made abundantly clear, has it not?? Because it is a privately owned and operated institution, it's content is solely at the discretion of the owner (jarmo) and those he appoints to monitor it (the mods).?He's doing nothing illegal. He's excersizing HIS right to run HIS "business" in any manner he sees fit, so long as it does not violate the laws in the place it is operated in.

 You are a guest in someone's "home", so to speak.? It's just common decency, manners, and common sense to respect their rules or, if you don't like them (or their actions), to disassociate yourself from them and leave.? It's not "take your medicine and shut up".? It's "why go to someone's house you dislike and piss on their carpet"?

In addition to that, if you DO have a disagreement over a matter of principle with an institution, or some other entity in which you can CHOOSE to associate, I find it curious that you would continue on with that association.? To me, that smacks of a lack of conviction.? If you are so offended by the mods "injustices", why would you continue to post here?? ?There are certainly an abundance of options out there. You've yet to actually address that question.? I wonder why that is so?

Again, the only reason I can see is you envision yourself some sort of crusader.? You can be quite sure that the posters here do not need you to point out the polices of the mods, or for you to "defend" them against those percieved injustices.? If, at some ponit, enough people feel as you do (which, in all honestly, doesn't seem to be the case...notice most of the "complaints" are from a very vocal, but very small, group of the same posters), that they have been "victims" of poor moderation, and they leave.....the forum will die.? So, in essence, LEAVING is actually a more effective way to fight your battle than your words are.? Even our colonial brethren knew when it was time to stop with the empassioned rhetoric and start fighting with actions.? Perhaps you've heard they do speak louder than words, at any rate?

If you think you are, on some level, "rallying the troops", so to speak......I'd invite you to look around. It's not working.?

On the subject of credibility, I have to, again, point out the obvious.? You've done nothing, whatesoever, in this thread or any other, to show you're credible.? You've provided no examples.? You've given no proof.? You have made accusations, to be sure.? But, given the situation, and your obvious "issues" with the mods here, it's tough to swallow you as a credible source of information.? Rather, you look like someone with an agenda to push....

And finally, as an academic, you should be aware that free speech has nothing, whatsoever, to do with a privately owned, privately operated, privately moderated forum on the internet.? Nothing. Your priveledge to post here, and every word you type, is at the discretion of the owner (even the ones you type which call into question the character of that owner and the mods he's chosen). Period. So bringing up such a point, in a discussion such as this, is not only irrelevant, it's a red herring.

You keep seeing conspiracy where there  is none. I am not so presumptous as to believe anything I say here has any effect on anyone. And, as as both a private and public forum, nor should it (although your premise has been systematically debunked in the theoretical  literature, see Mancur Olsen). So I am not trying to rally anyone about anything. I 'got no need for the light.' I am just speaking my mind. So 'don't damn me.' Because you are, at least in your mind, so much more erudite than I, I will meekly bow before your brillant  insight into the human psyche and discontinue what I thought was an open forum.

[Jim]

The list is  rather long, but two most recent that come to mind:
The Jungle:
1. biggest (monetary) raise you ever received
2. I  hate when I get drunk and....

It is not the "majority" by far, but I am too busy to keep a list, so this is just a small representative sample.

Well, it certainly doesn't look like a long list........

(A tip: In future, pick better representative samples)

1. That would be this one... http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=28516.0

2. And I guess that would be make this one here. http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=27064.msg493000#msg493000

Deleted? Oh, no no my friend... The first one is still open. The second one was  ............................(to the max)

... I created a thread for stupid ass drunk man comments. 

Now. Anything else, brother?

As an academic would know, it is critical that any reasonable argument, that wants to be taken seriously at least, must include tangible examples. So far, your own number...

Well. That big goose egg.

Also, this is only a public forum because jarmo lets it be a public forum. Go chew on that for a while. I'll read some Mancur Olsen....................

[Krispy Kreme]

The list is? rather long, but two most recent that come to mind:
The Jungle:
1. biggest (monetary) raise you ever received
2. I? hate when I get drunk and....

It is not the "majority" by far, but I am too busy to keep a list, so this is just a small representative sample.

Well, it certainly doesn't look like a long list........

Jim,



(A tip: In future, pick better representative samples)

1. That would be this one... http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=28516.0

2. And I guess that would be make this one here. http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=27064.msg493000#msg493000

Deleted? Oh, no no my friend... The first one is still open. The second one was? ............................(to the max)

... I created a thread for stupid ass drunk man comments.?

Now. Anything else, brother?

As an academic would know, it is critical that any reasonable argument, that wants to be taken seriously at least, must include tangible examples. So far, your own number...

Well. That big goose egg.

Also, this is only a public forum because jarmo lets it be a public forum. Go chew on that for a while. I'll read some Mancur Olsen....................

Jim,

No hostility intended. You are a cool moderator, certainly one  of the  more  reasonable  ones, as evidenced by your reference to "this is not censorship" in a different thread. So at least you are open to constructive criticism. So maybe my words made a "small dent." I have no argument with you. And thanks for the links. It appears one was locked, without reason, and one is still open. As  I said, it was off the top of my head. The list would be longer if I had time or energy to put into it, but things on the professional front are starting to heat up, so I have to take a pass. Feel free to lock if need  be, I  won't complain.

[Skeba]

The second thread was locked by me.

Without a reason? I gave you one right here:

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=27372.msg504394#msg504394

You know. The thread you started on why your thread was locked. You even replied to it after I gave you my reason. If you thought that I read the whole situation all wrong. Well you said in the next post in the original thread that you're too drunk to find your profile. Now how the fuck am I supposed to know what the thread was about.

You wanna talk about things you hate??:

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=10458.msg404062#msg404062

[Lara]

Was the topic about the portuguese review+nice Axl pic. deleted, or is it just my posts?
I cant seem to find it.

[jarmo]

It's gone. It went way off topic and the pic can probably be found in the pic thread anyway.




/jarmo

[pilferk]

You keep seeing conspiracy where there? is none. I am not so presumptous as to believe anything I say here has any effect on anyone. And, as as both a private and public forum, nor should it (although your premise has been systematically debunked in the theoretical? literature, see Mancur Olsen). So I am not trying to rally anyone about anything. I 'got no need for the light.' I am just speaking my mind. So 'don't damn me.' Because you are, at least in your mind, so much more erudite than I, I will meekly bow before your brillant? insight into the human psyche and discontinue what I thought was an open forum.

On the contrary, I don't see conspiracy.  I just can't think of a logical reason why you'd continue to post if you feel so "injured" by the mods.  That's why I asked (buy you've yet to answer).  I presented the only logical reason I could see of continuing to do so.  If you'd like to provide another explanation, I'm all ears.

And, once again, you demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding of what this forum is.  It is not "an open forum".  It is a selective, private, moderated forum.  Want an open forum?  Go to unmoderated usenet forms.  It's as close as you'll get.  Have fun getting past the spam.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Why was this deleted- its newsworthy, judge for yourself:

Guns N? Roses will headline KROQ?s Inland Invasion 2006 on September 23
Friday 19 May 2006.


Guns N? Roses will headline KROQ?s Inland Invasion 2006 on September 23 at the Hyundai Pavilion at Glen Helen in Devore, California. GN?R frontman Axl Rose revealed the news Friday (May 19) during an on-air segment with KROQ hosts Kevin and Bean. It will be the band?s first Los Angeles gig in more than 15 years, Rose said. And who would have imagined even a few days ago that the long-dormant yet suddenly ubiquitous GN?R would be back playing an acoustic set for actress Rosario Dawson on her birthday? The band did just that Thursday night at the Plumm in New York, showing up to play 11 cuts, including "Used to Love Her," "Mr. Brownstone" and "Sweet Child O? Mine.".
Source: MTV News
source: http://www.gunsnroses.us

[Pandora]

People really need to check their own profile before saying a thread is deleted.  Yours has simply been merged with this one, which is essentially about the same thing :
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=30544.0