RIR Site: "Axl: Chinese Democracy will be released before the summer"

[Neemo]

Sounds like internet Journalism @ it's finest...Axl never actually said that...did he?

[GeorgeSteele]

You're missing, then making, my point for me. ?My point was that to regain the heights they once attained, they need to release new material, and have it be good (and popular) in order to get the kind of crossover you're talking about...to become the kind of draw that Madonna, the Stones, and U2 are. ?Just RELEASING material isn't going to do that. ?And just the PROMISE of releasing material isn't going to do it, either.

Yes, 13 years ago Guns was on par with Madonna, The Stones, and U2. ?And each of those acts have released new material in the interim. ?And that material has been popular, to a large extent. Guns has not.

You make the point of UYI. It's valid, to a point. ?But CD is not UYI. ?It's more akin to Appetite, I think. Much more like a debut (or re-debut) album. ?The band is basically starting all over again, with the head start of having name recognition and drawing power. ?And Appetite sold 15+ million copies with little initial promotion. ?It caught fire by word of mouth, and the kick ass shows that GnR were putting on, in clubs and while opening for Aerosmith.

You think that, given Geffen's investment, they would insist on a large scale promotion. ?Given what we know...I'm not sure THAT'S true, either. It might be, but it might not. They may not want to throw anything behind the album, at first, until they see how the public and the critics recieve it. ?Given production costs, and the horror stories we've heard about the bands relationship with the label....again, I'm not convinced.

One other thing: I know the 13 million sounds like a lot.? But if Axl REALLY does have 3 albums worth of material that's mostly done, and ready to roll....that 13 million doesn't sound quite so outrageous anymore, to me or the label brass....provided it means a vastly abbreviated roll out of the remaining 2 albums after CD.

My "issue" with the theory that it's going to require a long term, mega media blitz to promote this album is that the "issue" that MOST average CD buying ?people seem to have with GnR isnt' going to be addressed until there is new material to listen to. ?It's a catch 22, almost.

I understand your point, I just disagree with it.  I don't think that releasing good material will be enough.  I don't think releasing the greatest rock album of all time will translate into high sales.  I think they need to set a release date in stone and then put the band on the interview/promotion circuit.  Then, after all is said and done, the album needs to kick ass.  I have no doubt it will.

Why do I care about sales?  Because if it doesn't sell, it's legacy will be that it was a failure and post-breakup Axl was a failure.  I don't want that to happen.  I know that stuff shouldn't matter to me so long as the album has great music, etc, but it does.

[Nytunz]

im so sure we will get a release date by the end of may. So much is pointing in that direction
Axl i New York for quite some time... Played CD in bars.. Dizzy says Soon. But other then that he wont say anyting. Tommy Wont say anything.
We are getting really close no..

[pilferk]

I understand your point, I just disagree with it.? I don't think that releasing good material will be enough.? I don't think releasing the greatest rock album of all time will translate into high sales.? I think they need to set a release date in stone and then put the band on the interview/promotion circuit.? Then, after all is said and done, the album needs to kick ass.? I have no doubt it will.

Why do I care about sales?? Because if it doesn't sell, it's legacy will be that it was a failure and post-breakup Axl was a failure.? I don't want that to happen.? I know that stuff shouldn't matter to me so long as the album has great music, etc, but it does.

And, see, my question is what does the promotion buy them? Really?

They have name recognition, already. ?So it doesn't do much on that front, I don't think. It might widen it a bit, but, given the band's reputation, that can be counterproductive, too. ?It may just open them up to some of the types of press we've seen already (washed up, no material in 13 years, etc), and the same types of questions we've seen asked a thousand times (where's Slash, why did the old band break up, etc).

It's NOT going to buy them "credibility". ?Only material has the possibility to do that. I suppose setting a date helps, but there's still no assurace the material will be worth buying or listening to.

So the only benefit I can see is making people aware of the release date, itself.

And I'm not sure how much benefit that is, outside of the built in market. ?That's my issue with the assertion they need a big media blitz.

People HEARING about the release date is only going to compel, I think, a (relatively) small portion of the demographic/target market to buy the album. ?And that demo is the demo that's going to hear about the release date rather quickly, because it's a built in, insular market.

I'm not convinced that wide-scale promotion is going to widen that initial market commesurate with the cost of the promotion...at least not on the scale you guys are proposing.

What I think is going to compel MORE of the market to purchase the material is to have material to sample, in order to ensure themselves that Axl is not washed up and this band is capable of producing good, relevant material. ? A single will do that, for sure, on some levels. ?And once the single is out, THEN you can start some promotion...but the lead time between single and album release(4 to 6 weeks...or about the duration of time between the warm up shows and June 20th) usually isn't quite as long as I'm gathering you want this promotional blitz to last.

From a marketing perspective, I just don't see what the benefits are. ?Again, I'm not saying you're all wrong...I'm just not convinced. ?I see too much contrary evidence and not enough of a case to support an all out, multi-million dollar promotional tour/blitz. I'm not convinced those dollars would be well spent.

[MJRoses23]

I agree with pilferk.  Mass promotion for this album wont really do much but tack on a few more million dollars to that 13 that is cost to make the the thing.  If they did promote this album some of the things they could use (The time between albums, band members, etc) would almost be mocking the band itself.  Those are the things they are criticized for.

 There are enough GNR fans that will buy this album with no promotion and then spread it through word of mouth the internet etc.  Im not sure there needs to be much promotion outside a good singe followed by successful tour dates and the album itself.  If the album has good material people will talk about it, radio will play it, and the internet will be buzzing the day that the official release date is announced.   So with all things considered they would get free promotion just buy putting out some good new material.  Outside of that as they say it would be like beating a dead horse if they went for mass promotion.

[GeorgeSteele]

Well, we'll see what happens with the promotion (or lack therof).  I just hope this doesn't end up with nothing but us board members telling each other how great the album is. 

One comment about "word of mouth."  A huge portion of GNR fans are guys like me - in their 30s, married, kids, much smaller social circle than they had in their teens and early 20s.  Who exactly am I, or people like me, going to tell how great the album is?  My wife?  She's not into Guns.  My close friends?  They, like most casual fans, don't acknowledge the current incarnation as the "real" Guns.  My co-workers? - "Didn't they break up?"  My daughters?  Anything other than "the ants go marching one by one, hurrah, hurrah..." is garbage.

My point is that word of mouth will only work if the album creates a new generation of GNR fans in a younger demographic.  Only then would there be a word of mouth effect like there was with AFD. 

[Micky.Fegz]

Think about you 

[BLS-Pride]

My point is that word of mouth will only work if the album creates a new generation of GNR fans in a younger demographic.  Only then would there be a word of mouth effect like there was with AFD.

I agree there. But I do not think this will sell close to AFD. Not because of how good it may be or may notbe. The music word has changed too much. But Rock seems to be coming back slowly but surely. Rap is becoming over produced and over polished and too expiensive just like rock was at one point. I hope the album is great and I hope its a major player in the game .. The onyl way is what you said.. Grab younger fans or the new GnR album will flop. Old school fans wont like the new direction or the way GnR is now... Got to start over almost.

[WARose]

Sounds like internet Journalism @ it's finest...Axl never actually said that...did he?

that`s actually the question

we don`t know what the rio promoters know.... and they probably know a lot more than us

i don`t like all the people acting like they`re responsible for gnr`s marketing/promotion and future succes by the way...
first of all, i don`t care about the sales and fame chidem will get. it`d be a nice bonus for axl to be the man again, but i guess it`s not important to neither him nor many of us. the music is what counts for me, the genereal public listens to crap music anyways. also i think that axl knows what he does.... does anyone of you seriously think he/management needs your advice??

[Vaclave]

Which Summer 07? 08? 09?    Not really kidding...

[Krispy Kreme]

Which Summer 07? 08? 09?? ? Not really kidding...

Don't forget about '10, '11, '12, and '13.

[GeorgeSteele]

Sounds like internet Journalism @ it's finest...Axl never actually said that...did he?

that`s actually the question

we don`t know what the rio promoters know.... and they probably know a lot more than we

i don`t like all the people acting like they`re responsible for gnr`s marketing/promotion and future succes by the way...
first of all, i don`t care about the sales and fame chidem will get. it`d be a nice bonus for axl to be the man again, but i guess it`s not important to neither him nor many of us. the music is what counts for me, the genereal public listens to crap music anyways. also i think that axl knows what he does.... does anyone of you seriously think he/management needs your advice??

To each there own, but many of us here enjoy pointing to the ridiculous commercial success of AFD and would like to see CD be successful as well. ?

As far as your comment about "needing our advice" - you got to be kidding. ?Giving our opinions on matters outside our expertise is what we do here. ?You're saying none of your 1822 posts involves your criticizing Axl/management in any way? ?People express opinions and enjoy debating matters like music, sports, politics - even though they don't work in those areas. ?It would be a good idea to get used to that.

[mikegiuliana]

I think it's important for this album to be a commerical success, give axl confidence make the record company money... it could influence the release of other material, and less disappearing acts from axl these days..

[benchiefjr]

I can't see this as a possibility whatsoever, how will they have the time for it...it'd have to come out in about a couple weeks.   

[oldgunsfan]

I remain skeptical that we will see CD anytime soon, but who gives a fuck when I'll be seeing them in less than 3 weeks

[WARose]

Sounds like internet Journalism @ it's finest...Axl never actually said that...did he?

that`s actually the question

we don`t know what the rio promoters know.... and they probably know a lot more than we

i don`t like all the people acting like they`re responsible for gnr`s marketing/promotion and future succes by the way...
first of all, i don`t care about the sales and fame chidem will get. it`d be a nice bonus for axl to be the man again, but i guess it`s not important to neither him nor many of us. the music is what counts for me, the genereal public listens to crap music anyways. also i think that axl knows what he does.... does anyone of you seriously think he/management needs your advice??

To each there own, but many of us here enjoy pointing to the ridiculous commercial success of AFD and would like to see CD be successful as well. 

As far as your comment about "needing our advice" - you got to be kidding.  Giving our opinions on matters outside our expertise is what we do here.  You're saying none of your 1822 posts involves your criticizing Axl/management in any way?  People express opinions and enjoy debating matters like music, sports, politics - even though they don't work in those areas.  It would be a good idea to get used to that.

don`t get me wrong...  of course i`d like to see chinese democracy be succesful, but that`s not really important to me....

and well....  i visit this board daily for the last 3+ years and it?s getting annoying to read the same discussions again and again and again....  it`s getting lame...  i don?t want to spoil your fun here though, so i hope you don`t feel offended

i`ll wait for the actual release date announcement and the shows this summer... i got my hopes up way to often and i don`t like all this speculation anymore... i got to a point where i just want to get FACTS

[HungerForChaos]

Well, we'll see what happens with the promotion (or lack therof).  I just hope this doesn't end up with nothing but us board members telling each other how great the album is. 

One comment about "word of mouth."  A huge portion of GNR fans are guys like me - in their 30s, married, kids, much smaller social circle than they had in their teens and early 20s.  Who exactly am I, or people like me, going to tell how great the album is?  My wife?  She's not into Guns.  My close friends?  They, like most casual fans, don't acknowledge the current incarnation as the "real" Guns.  My co-workers? - "Didn't they break up?"  My daughters?  Anything other than "the ants go marching one by one, hurrah, hurrah..." is garbage.

My point is that word of mouth will only work if the album creates a new generation of GNR fans in a younger demographic.  Only then would there be a word of mouth effect like there was with AFD. 

I agree, they need some promotion. It shouldn't be hard to get a new generation of GNR fans. I mean look at Greenday! If they can become that popular with teens, I'm sure Guns can.

[GeorgeSteele]

don`t get me wrong...? of course i`d like to see chinese democracy be succesful, but that`s not really important to me....

and well....? i visit this board daily for the last 3+ years and it?s getting annoying to read the same discussions again and again and again....? it`s getting lame...? i don?t want to spoil your fun here though, so i hope you don`t feel offended

i`ll wait for the actual release date announcement and the shows this summer... i got my hopes up way to often and i don`t like all this speculation anymore... i got to a point where i just want to get FACTS

Totally understand. ?We get frustrated with all the speculation and lack of facts and we deal with it by speculating. ?I and many others here are guilty of that. ?In any case, I think with the summer concerts and all (here I go speculating again), we will be getting a ton of information this summer... information more substantial than Perla Hudson's animal sacrifices. ?Whether that will include a CD release, we just don't know. ?

[kyrie]

Regardless of whether GNR is a name brand or not, the label will want some promotion - which is probably what this tour is all about.

CD is *NOT* at all like AFD and in fact the band is in a much tougher position than back then... with AFD, failure meant what? I firmly believe at least Axl and Slash and probably Izzy (songwriting wise) would have had enough talent to be successful later down the line (i.e. VR). Failure for the new band now? There's no more second chance. CD is a one-shot release.

There's not going to be another long slow burn towards a hit record, because the diehard fanbase is  going to pick up the album right away, and after that, if the first single isn't huge, it's going to quickly vanish from the charts. People know the name and if it sucks, they'll write it off rather quickly.

Promotion *can* help that. Getting maximum radio and TV exposure... getting it in the right places. Only hopefully CD is far superior musically to most of the crap marketed today.

If the label wants to recoup their losses, there will be promotion. If they just want it over and done with, they'll just throw it out and and see what happens.

Realistically, the band should be thrilled if they do between 2-3 million, though I doubt that would recoup all the losses if you count in advertising... and the fact that the books were wiped clean back when the label changed hands.

[AxlsSweetChild]

How could they mention Think About You along w/ wttj and november rain