Hey Chef, these guys are killing free speech

[journey]

I was hoping someone would say that. Correct. Gn'R are often ridiculous and deserve to be mocked. Religions are often ridiculous and deserve to be mocked also.

I get defensive and annoyed. As you would expect.

However, i don't propose we ban people from insulting gn'r just because i like it. The same goes for people who hold religious views.

Religions is not special. No matter how many people think that their's is. It is not. Gn'R is not special. No matter what i think.

I never suggested punishment for mocking religion or anything else. I don't believe in that. I was trying to stress the importantance of respecting others.

So nothing is special in your opinion?

Life would probably be more simple if I were emotionally detached from things. But I'm not. I care about other people and I won't apologize for that.

[2NaFish]

i never suggested that you suggested punishment for mocking religion. dont know where you got that from.

And I never said nothing was special. I said something isnt special just because you believe it is. Unless something can be proven as objectively above critiscism or satire it can and should be crticized and satirized.

I don't expect people to not get offended. I don't expect to have to endure censorship because they do.

[journey]

i never suggested that you suggested punishment for mocking religion. dont know where you got that from.

However, i don't propose we ban people from insulting gn'r just because i like it. The same goes for people who hold religious views.

Religions is not special. No matter how many people think that their's is. It is not. Gn'R is not special. No matter what i think.

I don't care what South Park makes fun of. They're supposed to be stupid.

I was referring to people in everyday life. If you don't believe in something that's fine, but it's disrespectful to go on and on about how stupid, ridiculous and wrong people are for practicing their specific faith. Just say you don't believe in it and let that be it. There's no need to drag someone through the mud.

[2NaFish]

hold up. i never said they were stupid or wrong. please don't put words in my mouth drawn from ambiguity. i said they were ridiculous.ridiculous things can be clever and correct.

go look up what the word ridiculous means. from itself it means worthy of ridicule. No belief is too special to be ridiculed is my point. not that others are wrong or stupid.

If gn'r can be mocked then so can religion.

[journey]

hold up. i never said they were stupid or wrong. please don't put words in my mouth drawn from ambiguity. i said they were ridiculous.ridiculous things can be clever and correct.

I never said you said anyone was ridiculous. But there are some people on this forum who bash other peoples' beliefs.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you or anyone, I'm just stating how I feel about respecting others' choice of faith, whether I believe in it or not.

And I understand what you're trying to say.

[Gunner80]

this is why i hate South Park. They mock every single religion possible and i think it's indeed ridiculous. South Park should never have been aired imo

Religion is ridiculous and needs to be mocked. 

GNR is ridiculous and needs to be mocked.

How does it feel when it's something you care about?

Doesn't bother me one bit. Heck even I poke fun at my favorite band once in awhile.

[Sterlingdog]

I get what you are saying, Journey.  You don't like to see people hurt or offended by other's comments.  And that's an admirable quality.  But very often, people take political correctness too far.  When we get so fearful of offending someone that it turns into censorship, that's a problem. 

There are those who would advocate banning satire of political figures, because it is disrespectful.  Same for religion.  And I say, that's the point of satire - it can be a powerful means of challenging those with authority - a right that Americans used to consider very important.   

[kaasupoltin]

this is why i hate South Park. They mock every single religion possible and i think it's indeed ridiculous. South Park should never have been aired imo

Religion is ridiculous and needs to be mocked.?

GNR is ridiculous and needs to be mocked.

How does it feel when it's something you care about?

Doesn't bother me one bit. Heck even I poke fun at my favorite band once in awhile.

That's true. I would like to see Gn'R in SP

[journey]

I get what you are saying, Journey.? You don't like to see people hurt or offended by other's comments.? And that's an admirable quality.? But very often, people take political correctness too far.? When we get so fearful of offending someone that it turns into censorship, that's a problem.?

Thanks Sterling.

I don't believe in censorship either. I just feel like people can express their beliefs without stomping on someone else?s.

[J?]

Look Scientology is the most bullshit ever.  Ron L Hubbard is the biggest con in the world. I don't respect anyone belonging to that cult or their beliefs. Its the biggest shit ever.

[makane]

GOD. If some of you people feel "offended" or "attacked" by SOUTH PARK, maybe you should think twice if you should even watch TV at all.
I hate when people whine things like these. Think about people who are living in poverty or have some horrible disease, I bet they don't give jack shit about South Park mocking Isac Hayes or Scientology. Neither should you, save your complaints for something real and seriouse.
tired and frustrated today.

[Danny Top Hat]

Would people please stop referring to scientology as a religion?  It's science fiction, pure and simple.  I can't believe they wouldn't accept Jedi as an organised faith, but they accept this because it's got a few celebrities on board.

[2NaFish]

Would people please stop referring to scientology as a religion? It's science fiction, pure and simple. I can't believe they wouldn't accept Jedi as an organised faith, but they accept this because it's got a few celebrities on board.

I was sure that the UK did accept it as an organised faith when they did the census a few years ago. I'm a Jedi anyway.

And the fact that Jedi can be a religion surely proves that any religion can be ridiculed as the idea of Jedi being a real religion is nothing but ridiculous.

[Sterlingdog]

Would people please stop referring to scientology as a religion?  It's science fiction, pure and simple.  I can't believe they wouldn't accept Jedi as an organised faith, but they accept this because it's got a few celebrities on board.

I agree, I don't consider Scientology a religion - its a cult, really.  But many cults have gotten the U.S. government to recognize them as religions and they get special protections/tax breaks that way. 

[journey]

GOD. If some of you people feel "offended" or "attacked" by SOUTH PARK, maybe you should think twice if you should even watch TV at all.
I hate when people whine things like these. Think about people who are living in poverty or have some horrible disease, I bet they don't give jack shit about South Park mocking Isac Hayes or Scientology. Neither should you, save your complaints for something real and seriouse.
tired and frustrated today.

Nobody's offended by South Park. The debate started over something somebody said in this thread about religion being ridiculous and laughable.

As for those people living in poverty with horrible diseases, sometimes their Faith is all they have left. Why not respect that?

[Backslash]

I'm going to start by saying South Park is great!  But from a legal standpoint, free speech and expression isn't a right, it's a privilege.  Of course, with privilege comes responsibility and in the case of free speech the responsibility is to have a conscious.  Many people take free speech to extremes.  When free speech becomes offensive to the point where it is harmful to a person's freedom of association or freedom from discrimination based on race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, or anything else, it is in violation of that person's rights.  Under these circumstances, a person must or reasonably must hold a conscious toward the potential of his or her words to offend.  If that person lacks a conscious and says something offensive, he or she is responsible for whatever actions result from such words.  Some examples where freedom of speech and expression does not apply include falsely yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theatre, spreading hate literature pertaining to any individual or a combination of individuals, and of course, anything related to child pornography.

At the same time, South Park has been offensive for years and has virtually made fun of everything.  The fact that Isaac Hayes would leave the show based on the offensive nature of the Scientology episode is hypocritical after the show has been potentially offending every other group for the past 10 years.  However, it still doesn't justify the fact that South Park considers it "killing free speech" as the show pretty much killed it's own free speech since it's been on the air.  Of course, the show is satirical in nature and is intended to be taken lightheartedly, but it still has the potential to offend.

[Sakib]

People with no religion have got nothing to hold against or for. Christians offended by Jesus mockery (as are true muslims), Jews if you make fun of Moses and torah and Islam by Muhammad (peace and blessing be upon him). We are supposed to love these messengers of Allah/Yaweh/God more than anything apart from god himself. You people with no religion, no offence, have absolutely nothing so it doesn't bother you if something gets mocked. Or so it seems.

To be honest i dont believe free speech exists. Never has been and never will. There's freer speech but not free speech.

[Rockin' Rose]

We are supposed to love these messengers of Allah/Yaweh/God more than anything apart from god himself.

Why are we supposed to love them? Or god himself?

I belong to a church (I'm too lazy to resign and some of the tax money they get is used for good things) but I don't love jesus, god or anyother religious figure, I don't know if I even believe in them, even though religion gives hope to some people don't forget that insane amount of people have been killed in the name of religion.

Lalli is my hero! (if you are finnish you might know the tale)

Someday when the WW3 has destroyed most of earth and it's population, the children of the people who survived in shelters have for generations told tales of this chosen one and his children, people start to believe in these tales and get hope from them. And that's how the religion of Star Wars got born...

I wish I can get some sleep tonight.

[Gunner80]

People with no religion have got nothing to hold against or for. Christians offended by Jesus mockery (as are true muslims), Jews if you make fun of Moses and torah and Islam by Muhammad (peace and blessing be upon him). We are supposed to love these messengers of Allah/Yaweh/God more than anything apart from god himself. You people with no religion, no offence, have absolutely nothing so it doesn't bother you if something gets mocked. Or so it seems.

To be honest i dont believe free speech exists. Never has been and never will. There's freer speech but not free speech.

See this is all any religion does to people. It allows them to pass judgement on people they don't even know. I myself believe in a logical and systematic universe.

[Jamie]

Now, by saying this I mean offence to noone and this is a general reply to some of the more recent posts in this thread and is not aimed at anyone in particular. But I am of the opinion, that not only should religion be allowed to be mocked, but religion NEEDS to be mocked. It is only when people can view their religion with a sense of humility that they can follow it in peace. And my reason to say this is simple, fanatic faith of religion or beliefs or of an individual, without question does more harm than it does good. Wars have started because of fanaticism of religion (Israel and Palestine), sense of beliefs (World War 2) and fanatacism of the individual (again World War 2). People need to step back and take a joke about their faith, or any other thing they hold sacred now and again for their own safety and the safety of those around them. Now I will not suggest that there is complete tolerance in this respect, as regards to racism etc. But I would suggest this is necessary in the context of satire, such as that often displayed in South Park.