I.R.S. lnstrumental discussion (NO LINKS, REQUESTS

[pilferk]

I did emend my statement if you refer to my next post.

As far as Better, I can see your point and it is floating around my grey matter. But as a pragmatist, I keep the option open b/c as far as we know, this is the only confirmed leak that exists. The presence of instrumental tracks tends to support that this is Trunk. .

1) There are other confirmed leaks.  Axl playing in clubs, etc.

2) All the presence of instrumental tracks supports, since all the tracks on the Trunk CD had 'em, is that Axl likes to have both versions created and mixed for his "review", or whatever.  It says nothing about the "source", at all.

[killingvector]

I did emend my statement if you refer to my next post.

As far as Better, I can see your point and it is floating around my grey matter. But as a pragmatist, I keep the option open b/c as far as we know, this is the only confirmed leak that exists. The presence of instrumental tracks tends to support that this is Trunk. .

1) There are other confirmed leaks.  Axl playing in clubs, etc.

2) All the presence of instrumental tracks supports, since all the tracks on the Trunk CD had 'em, is that Axl likes to have both versions created and mixed for his "review", or whatever.  It says nothing about the "source", at all.

We don't kow that anyone was able to record those tracks that he supposedly played in the clubs. I agree with you that it is a possible source but we do know that Trunk had instrumentals.

[estranged.1098]

I don't think Axl previewed the instrumentals at clubs. Also, I don't think Trunk's CD had 5 tracks with vocals (2 TWATs, Better, IRS, CITR).

[kyrie]

Pilfrek, I really don't mean to ride on you, but I think you've looked at the Splat interview, where they asked a leading question (what did you think of the other two songs on the CD was basically what Splat asked).

But read Trunk's ORIGINAL statement from years ago, which is this:

"The rest of the CD was also cool. It sounded like a total of 3 songs, with instrumental versions of each of the 3, making a total of 6 tracks (I think)."

The REST of the CD. And, "I think." Even at the time, Trunk wasn't sure. The guy listened to it in his car.

"There were other tracks and music on the CD as well, but I only had a chance to listen to them on the ride home. "

"The last track, which I did not play, was the best. A great rocker, with tons of shredding guitar from Buckethead. I don't know what the title was..."

I'm not trusting Trunk's memory on this. So far, all the leaks have followed a pattern. And rumor is only instrumentals are left...

1) He said there was a total of 6 tracks.  Total means total. You're interpreting, instead of reading, to try to make it fit into your "theory".  Not IRS + 3 +3.  3 tracks and 3 insturmentals, TOTAL.  Again, email him yourself to confirm (which, of course, you won't do).

I posted his exact words - take them as you see fit. His own comments were pretty telling - "The REST of the CD" and "I think."

2) I've read the splat interview.  They asked for specifics.  He basically said he was fuzzy on the details.  You can be fuzzy on details and still remember "big picture" stuff.  In addition, knowing he had Better in his possession when he was asked the question, I also would have to think it might've jogged his memory a bit.  I don't know.  Why don't you contact him and ask him (which, of course, you won't do).

I don't have his e-mail. Nor do I really need to contact him. You claim he told you Better wasn't on it. I've never called you a lair, I've just said I don't trust the guy's memory.

EDIT: I've found his contact form, we'll see if he replies.

I won't bother replying to your last flame. If you can't keep it civil...

[kyrie]

I don't think Axl previewed the instrumentals at clubs. Also, I don't think Trunk's CD had 5 tracks with vocals (2 TWATs, Better, IRS, CITR).

Has it been confirmed that the short TWAT wasn't some fan-made hack-job?

[kyrie]

I did emend my statement if you refer to my next post.

As far as Better, I can see your point and it is floating around my grey matter. But as a pragmatist, I keep the option open b/c as far as we know, this is the only confirmed leak that exists. The presence of instrumental tracks tends to support that this is Trunk. .

1) There are other confirmed leaks.  Axl playing in clubs, etc.

2) All the presence of instrumental tracks supports, since all the tracks on the Trunk CD had 'em, is that Axl likes to have both versions created and mixed for his "review", or whatever.  It says nothing about the "source", at all.

No one ever confirmed those were recorded. And why would Axl play an instrumental track at a club? That seeps highly unlikely.

How do you know the tracks were for Axl? We've all been running on this assumption but there's a chance these could have been for someone doing mixing or some other work on them.

[kyrie]

I did emend my statement if you refer to my next post.

As far as Better, I can see your point and it is floating around my grey matter. But as a pragmatist, I keep the option open b/c as far as we know, this is the only confirmed leak that exists. The presence of instrumental tracks tends to support that this is Trunk. .

1) There are other confirmed leaks.  Axl playing in clubs, etc.

2) All the presence of instrumental tracks supports, since all the tracks on the Trunk CD had 'em, is that Axl likes to have both versions created and mixed for his "review", or whatever.  It says nothing about the "source", at all.

We don't kow that anyone was able to record those tracks that he supposedly played in the clubs. I agree with you that it is a possible source but we do know that Trunk had instrumentals.

Do you see Axl going to a club, saying "check out my new songs," and then playing instrumental tracks? And why would he be playing demos that are years old.

Someone who helped leak the instrumental track has already said these tracks are years old and that there's no other vocal tracks. I'm tending to believe them more of any of these conspiracy theories or the fluke chance that someone recorded both an instrumental and a full version of better from a nightclub.

[estranged.1098]

I don't think Axl previewed the instrumentals at clubs. Also, I don't think Trunk's CD had 5 tracks with vocals (2 TWATs, Better, IRS, CITR).

Has it been confirmed that the short TWAT wasn't some fan-made hack-job?

This is the first I heard this. At what point in the song was the hack done?

[kyrie]

I don't think Axl previewed the instrumentals at clubs. Also, I don't think Trunk's CD had 5 tracks with vocals (2 TWATs, Better, IRS, CITR).

Has it been confirmed that the short TWAT wasn't some fan-made hack-job?

This is the first I heard this. At what point in the song was the hack done?

I have no idea, I'm just asking if anyone's really looked at it or not. I think most people just took the long one (as I did) since they came out so close together.

[estranged.1098]

I don't think Axl previewed the instrumentals at clubs. Also, I don't think Trunk's CD had 5 tracks with vocals (2 TWATs, Better, IRS, CITR).

Has it been confirmed that the short TWAT wasn't some fan-made hack-job?

This is the first I heard this. At what point in the song was the hack done?

I have no idea, I'm just asking if anyone's really looked at it or not. I think most people just took the long one (as I did) since they came out so close together.

I think the shorter version leaked first... if that's the case only the leaker could have tampered with it.

[pilferk]

I posted his exact words - take them as you see fit. His own comments were pretty telling - "The REST of the CD" and "I think."

Read them.? Don't interepret them.? Read them.? His words are pretty clear.? 6 total tracks.

So, he was right back then, but not now?? Is he credible then, but not now? Either you believe him or you don't.? He heard it, you didn't.? He said it wasn't there. You have no earthy idea.? You have no proof.? You have a conspiracy theory. 'Nuff said.

I don't have his e-mail. Nor do I really need to contact him. You claim he told you Better wasn't on it. I've never called you a lair, I've just said I don't trust the guy's memory.

EDIT: I've found his contact form, we'll see if he replies.

I won't bother replying to your last flame. If you can't keep it civil...

You don't trust his memory, but what he said in interviews 3 years ago (right after) and 1 year ago (2 years after the fact) are gospel??

Hypocrisy...it's what's for dinner.

It wasn't there.?

As for "responding to my final flame":

a) it wasn't a flame.

b) it's the truth.

c) I'm not surprised you won't respond to it given, really, you have no credible response.  It's all true.  You have no proof, whatsoever.

You have no supporting evidence for your "theory".? Nothing, nada, zilch.? You have someone, firsthand, who gives you a definitve answer, and you choose to ignore it.? That's fantasy, plain and simple.?

[pilferk]

No one ever confirmed those were recorded. And why would Axl play an instrumental track at a club? That seeps highly unlikely.

How do you know the tracks were for Axl? We've all been running on this assumption but there's a chance these could have been for someone doing mixing or some other work on them.

But someone HAS confirmed that Better was not on the Trunk CD....

So what are other likely sources?? There's a ton of them...the club suggestion was simply an example.? I don't know where Better came from...any suggestion is speculation.? I only know where it DIDN'T come from.

As for playing an instrumental track at a club....he wouldn't have to.? Someone would only have to rip the CD he brought, which DID have instrumentals, to disc or mp3.? Easy as pie.? But again, I'm speculating.? For all I know Buckethead leaked them because his last paycheck bounced.... (note sarcasm).? My point is that the Trunk CD is not the only possible source.? It's the only leak we have copious amounts of public information about.? That doesn't mean, by a long shot, it's the only leak.? We also know there have been other opportunites for the leak to occur.? And if we know of SOME.....

And, if someone sent Piazza a CD 3 years ago, why would it be so hard to believe that someone sent another, different CD to someone else, someone who leaked that CD, more recently?  Again, speculation of course.  Just offering up other possibilities since we know it didn't come from the Trunk CD.

And, when the person who had that CD in their possession categorically denies something is there....that's about as definitive an answer as one is likely to get.

How do you know the tracks were for Axl? We've all been running on this assumption but there's a chance these could have been for someone doing mixing or some other work on them.

What other possible use could they have but to aid in the musical arrangement and mixing of tracks?? And, given what we know, and other band members have said, that's what Axl's been working on.? And lets face it...no one would create mixed instrumental tracks of GnR's material without Axl's say so and input.? That would be ludicrous.?

[kyrie]

But someone HAS confirmed that Better was not on the Trunk CD....

So what are other likely sources?  There's a ton of them...the club suggestion was simply an example.  I don't know where Better came from...any suggestion is speculation.  I only know where it DIDN'T come from.

As for playing an instrumental track at a club....he wouldn't have to.  Someone would only have to rip the CD he brought, which DID have instrumentals, to disc or mp3.  Easy as pie.  But again, I'm speculating.  For all I know Buckethead leaked them because his last paycheck bounced.... (note sarcasm)

I've said my peace on what I think of that "confirmation."

I'll wait (with less than baited breath) to see if Trunk gets back to me. And again- we're basing a lot on the memory of a guy who listened to the CD on the way home from the station in his car three years ago.

What's your source for saying that the CD he brought to the club had instrumentals? I don't recall seeing this in the press anywhere... I only remember the interview with the club owner saying Axl sounded good.

What other possible use could they have but to aid in the musical arrangement and mixing of tracks?

Axl is doing the mixing? As I said, someone could be mixing, or it could be someone doing some accompaniment. People need source material to work with. I never claimed anyone made anything without Axl's permission. Nothing in my post indicated that, I have no idea where you get that idea from.

[kyrie]

I don't think Axl previewed the instrumentals at clubs. Also, I don't think Trunk's CD had 5 tracks with vocals (2 TWATs, Better, IRS, CITR).

Has it been confirmed that the short TWAT wasn't some fan-made hack-job?

This is the first I heard this. At what point in the song was the hack done?

I have no idea, I'm just asking if anyone's really looked at it or not. I think most people just took the long one (as I did) since they came out so close together.

I think the shorter version leaked first... if that's the case only the leaker could have tampered with it.

Considering the previous history of the leaks and the great trade summit that amounted to nothing on these boards, that would not surprise me.

[pilferk]

I've said my peace on what I think of that "confirmation."

And we've rehased, over and over, the relevance of? your opinion on the matter, as well.

I'll wait (with less than baited breath) to see if Trunk gets back to me. And again- we're basing a lot on the memory of a guy who listened to the CD on the way home from the station in his car three years ago.

What's your source for saying that the CD he brought to the club had instrumentals? I don't recall seeing this in the press anywhere... I only remember the interview with the club owner saying Axl sounded good.

Eddie is usually pretty good about getting back to people via email.? That being said....I'm not sure he likes being pestered on a subject he's already broached, so...we'll see.

His memory of something he actually heard vs well...nothing credible from your side and I'll take his memory every day of the week and twice on Sunday.? I mean, for Gods sake, the guy listens to music for a living. 

As for what the club CD contained, as I said, speculation.? But no more unfounded than yours.? I'm simply pointing out possibilites and would certainly take any concrete, relevant information to heart if it disproved that speculation....For example, if the club owner cared to say there were no instrumentals on the CD they played.

Axl is doing the mixing? As I said, someone could be mixing, or it could be someone doing some accompaniment. People need source material to work with. I never claimed anyone made anything without Axl's permission. Nothing in my post indicated that, I have no idea where you get that idea from.

I'm relatively sure Axl is doing the mixing..maybe not alone, but doing it.? Didn't Tommy and Dizzy, at seperate times in seperate interviews say as much?? I'll have to recheck.

True, people need source material to work with.? But they're working, essentially, for Axl (and the band).? So, while it might not be DIRECTLY for Axl to work on, it's "for Axl" in the sense that he's the one who authorized it for some purpuse he has...whether he's doing the work directly or not.? And again, I'm relatively sure he would review the mixes of any source material before it was sent to anyone else.? And, if he authorizes the creation of instrumental versions of the songs, obviously he likes to have them, for whatever purpose he deems necessary.

[kyrie]

I've said my peace on what I think of that "confirmation."

And we've rehased, over and over, the relevance of  your opinion on the matter, as well.

And you know what I think of yours.

So drop it. You have your opinion, I have mine. Your opinion is no more relevant than mine. So don't expect me to agree with your "100% confirmation" without better proof.

Eddie is usually pretty good about getting back to people via email.  That being said....I'm not sure he likes being pestered on a subject he's already broached, so...we'll see.

His memory of something he actually heard vs well...nothing credible from your side and I'll take his memory every day of the week and twice on Sunday. 

These leaks have followed the exact layout of the CD that was leaked out before, potentially. Instrumentals and vocal tracks, and no more than the maximum possible (not confirmed, but possible) number of tracks on that CD. One person who I believe IS in contact with the SOURCE said there's no further new non-instrumental tracks available.

Trunk confirmed something to you, but we've never seen a quote from you, just an ask Jarmo. Why? What's in his quote that you can't post it on here?

When I see a quote from Trunk that says "I am certain beyond a resonable doubt that this was not on the CD", or one that states the number of tracks without Trunk saying "I think", I'll rule out the possibility.

But there are NO public comments that rule it out yet, regardless of your opinion, or a private conversation that you refuse to share or even paraphrase.

As for what the CD contained, as I said, speculation.  But no more unfounded than yours.

I'm relatively sure Axl is doing the mixing..maybe not alone, but doing it.  Didn't Tommy and Dizzy, at seperate times in seperate interviews say as much?  I'll have to recheck.

True, people need source material to work with.  But they're working, essentially, for Axl (and the band).  So, while it might not be DIRECTLY for Axl to work on, it's "for Axl" in the sense that he's the one who authorized it for some purpuse he has...whether he's doing the work directly or not.  And again, I'm relatively sure he would review the mixes of any source material before it was sent to anyone else.  And, if he authorizes the creation of instrumental versions of the songs, obviously he likes to have them, for whatever purpose he deems necessary.

Key word - not alone. Axl is not in the studio at all times. Do you think he personally oversees everyone's work? And you didn't even answer the question of where you heard instrumental tracks were played at clubs.

[jameslofton29]

the great trade summit that amounted to nothing

That is so funny. Funny but true. We go all these years with nothing, and then a leak happens, and all of a sudden all these different factions acted like they were sitting on a pile of demos. Unfuckingbelievable. It could only happen in the GNR world.

[kyrie]

Read them.? Don't interepret them.? Read them.? His words are pretty clear.? 6 total tracks.

Regardless of how you interpret the "rest of the CD" comment - him saying "I think" is like the fine print on a contract.

So, he was right back then, but not now?? Is he credible then, but not now? Either you believe him or you don't.? He heard it, you didn't.? He said it wasn't there. You have no earthy idea.? You have no proof.? You have a conspiracy theory. 'Nuff said.

I believe what he has said over time gets less and less reliable as more time passes. Does that not seem rational to you?

I don't have his e-mail. Nor do I really need to contact him. You claim he told you Better wasn't on it. I've never called you a lair, I've just said I don't trust the guy's memory.

EDIT: I've found his contact form, we'll see if he replies.

I won't bother replying to your last flame. If you can't keep it civil...

You don't trust his memory, but what he said in interviews 3 years ago (right after) and 1 year ago (2 years after the fact) are gospel??

Hypocrisy...it's what's for dinner.

It wasn't there.? ?

Refer to what I said earlier. The later it gets, the less trustworthy his memory is. He was saying "I think" from day one.

When the best you can say is "nana you live in a fantasy land" - that's a flame. I'm not responding to it because it isn't worth my time. It's schoolyard childishness.

If Trunk replies to me, I will be upfront with that info. There won't be any "e-mail Jarmo". I've asked him to clarify both the tracks issue, the better issue, or if he's 100% sure or not.

The fact is, Eddie Trunk has consistently been inconsistent in every statement he's made publically on the issue. And yeah, that's a silly statement to make. But you see my point. He has said "I think" and that his memory is foggy in both main interviews he did on the subject. He said right from day one he only got a quick listen in the car. Unless you wish to post/paraphrase what he said - I've asked you this already and you declined - or we get further word, OR another track leaks, there's absolutely no reason there isn't one single source. Unless you have more info. You still haven't answered where you got the idea instrumentals were played at that club from, unless I missed it.

I'm going to drop this until I hear from Trunk or enough time passes that I can safely assume he can't be arsed to reply.

[WARose]

axl was spotted with two cds by the club manager in new york, each cd contained 10 tracks..... so it`s possible that one cd was just instrumentals....

[Voodoochild]

Has it been confirmed that the short TWAT wasn't some fan-made hack-job?

I don't think it's fan made...