"Better Instrumental" - Discussions

[killingvector]

This is quite a mystery brewing.

In order to be believed, the Trunk CD would have to had both versions of TWAT, Better (vocals and instrumental), IRS, and probably the instrumentals to IRS. That would be six tracks but contradicts the 3 vocals/ 3 instrumental report that we first obtained . Like the rest of Trunk's comments, this report seems a bit spurious and evasive. It is not implausible that he maybe off a bit by his description, meaning that there were 2 instrumentals and 4 finished. I could see that.  As for comparing these leaks to what he heard, I wouldn't necessary trust him to identify a track from its quality of recording. However, if he is certain that a specific track is not there, then that opens up the existence of second cd. As of this moment, I am not convinced that the leak of IRS, TWAT, & Better came from a source other than Trunk.

Catcher because it is obviously an older demo (i.e. has drums and Brian May's recognizeable contributions) must have come from another source. There was talk that this was leaked internal source who was not authorized to do so. If there were other tracks out there, I think we would hear these footsteps already.  My guess is that someone affliated with the label leaked it from old recordings left over after Axl was booted out of the studio; recorded it to tape either as his source or later, and leaked when the other stuff leaked out.

[bigcash2002]

This is an awesome instrumental....I didn't think I would enjoy it as much as I did
Not bad at all.....

[killingvector]

From Eddie 9/1/03

The rest of the CD was also cool. It sounded like a total of 3 songs, with instrumental versions of each of the 3, making a total of 6 tracks (I think). The last track, which I did not play, was the best. A great rocker, with tons of shredding guitar from Buckethead.

If he is correct, then

1. IRS (vocals)
2. IRS (instrumental)
3. TWAT (6:43)
4. TWAT (6:03)
5. Better
6. Better (instrumental)
7. TWAT (instrumental)

that would make seven tracks , not six. Eddie's description of Bucket shredding is definately TWAT so TWAT with vocals is on the disc. Considering Trunk's somewhat ambiguous comment about the number of tracks, this 7 song list could be possible. The wild card though is the second vocal version of TWAT. Where did it come from? It was leaked almost simultaneously as the longer version. Could the second leaker have leaked this out quietly when TWAT appeared or is the second version of TWAT the 'instrumetnal version' that Trunk may have mistakenly referred to.

Catcher is a different leak though. All signs point to that. It is possible that the second cd could have had one of the vocal TWAT versions.

And given the fact Eddie says Better was not on the CD...

there hasn't been any link to that paricular Eddie comment. How reliable is this?

[Throatrake]

This is quite a mystery brewing.

In order to be believed, the Trunk CD would have to had both versions of TWAT, Better (vocals and instrumental), IRS, and probably the instrumentals to IRS. That would be six tracks but contradicts the 3 vocals/ 3 instrumental report that we first obtained . Like the rest of Trunk's comments, this report seems a bit spurious and evasive. It is not implausible that he maybe off a bit by his description, meaning that there were 2 instrumentals and 4 finished. I could see that.? As for comparing these leaks to what he heard, I wouldn't necessary trust him to identify a track from its quality of recording. However, if he is certain that a specific track is not there, then that opens up the existence of second cd. As of this moment, I am not convinced that the leak of IRS, TWAT, & Better came from a source other than Trunk.

Catcher because it is obviously an older demo (i.e. has drums and Brian May's recognizeable contributions) must have come from another source. There was talk that this was leaked internal source who was not authorized to do so. If there were other tracks out there, I think we would hear these footsteps already.? My guess is that someone affliated with the label leaked it from old recordings left over after Axl was booted out of the studio; recorded it to tape either as his source or later, and leaked when the other stuff leaked out.

Isn't CITR the only leaked track with a glitch/skip?
That might be a clue as to whether or not there is more than one source cd out there.

[killingvector]

This is quite a mystery brewing.

In order to be believed, the Trunk CD would have to had both versions of TWAT, Better (vocals and instrumental), IRS, and probably the instrumentals to IRS. That would be six tracks but contradicts the 3 vocals/ 3 instrumental report that we first obtained . Like the rest of Trunk's comments, this report seems a bit spurious and evasive. It is not implausible that he maybe off a bit by his description, meaning that there were 2 instrumentals and 4 finished. I could see that.  As for comparing these leaks to what he heard, I wouldn't necessary trust him to identify a track from its quality of recording. However, if he is certain that a specific track is not there, then that opens up the existence of second cd. As of this moment, I am not convinced that the leak of IRS, TWAT, & Better came from a source other than Trunk.

Catcher because it is obviously an older demo (i.e. has drums and Brian May's recognizeable contributions) must have come from another source. There was talk that this was leaked internal source who was not authorized to do so. If there were other tracks out there, I think we would hear these footsteps already.  My guess is that someone affliated with the label leaked it from old recordings left over after Axl was booted out of the studio; recorded it to tape either as his source or later, and leaked when the other stuff leaked out.

Isn't CITR the only leaked track with a glitch/skip?
That might be a clue as to whether or not there is more than one source cd out there.

Yes very good point. CITR has a recording glitch which sounds like a tape skip. Another reason to believe that it was from a different source.

[kyrie]

From Eddie 9/1/03

The rest of the CD was also cool. It sounded like a total of 3 songs, with instrumental versions of each of the 3, making a total of 6 tracks (I think). The last track, which I did not play, was the best. A great rocker, with tons of shredding guitar from Buckethead.

If he is correct, then

1. IRS (vocals)
2. IRS (instrumental)
3. TWAT (6:43)
4. TWAT (6:03)
5. Better
6. Better (instrumental)
7. TWAT (instrumental)

that would make seven tracks , not six. Eddie's description of Bucket shredding is definately TWAT so TWAT with vocals is on the disc. Considering Trunk's somewhat ambiguous comment about the number of tracks, this 7 song list could be possible. The wild card though is the second vocal version of TWAT. Where did it come from? It was leaked almost simultaneously as the longer version. Could the second leaker have leaked this out quietly when TWAT appeared or is the second version of TWAT the 'instrumetnal version' that Trunk may have mistakenly referred to.

Catcher is a different leak though. All signs point to that. It is possible that the second cd could have had one of the vocal TWAT versions.

And given the fact Eddie says Better was not on the CD...

there hasn't been any link to that paricular Eddie comment. How reliable is this?

For what it's worth, the rip of Better instrumental lists it as Track 8.

When he says "the rest of the CD had 6 tracks," could still be IRS/IRS instrumental, or maybe one lacked an instrumental.

I also wouldn't rule out CITR as being on it. That glitch could have been picked up earlier, and the CD assembled later on.

[killingvector]

From Eddie 9/1/03

The rest of the CD was also cool. It sounded like a total of 3 songs, with instrumental versions of each of the 3, making a total of 6 tracks (I think). The last track, which I did not play, was the best. A great rocker, with tons of shredding guitar from Buckethead.

If he is correct, then

1. IRS (vocals)
2. IRS (instrumental)
3. TWAT (6:43)
4. TWAT (6:03)
5. Better
6. Better (instrumental)
7. TWAT (instrumental)

that would make seven tracks , not six. Eddie's description of Bucket shredding is definately TWAT so TWAT with vocals is on the disc. Considering Trunk's somewhat ambiguous comment about the number of tracks, this 7 song list could be possible. The wild card though is the second vocal version of TWAT. Where did it come from? It was leaked almost simultaneously as the longer version. Could the second leaker have leaked this out quietly when TWAT appeared or is the second version of TWAT the 'instrumetnal version' that Trunk may have mistakenly referred to.

Catcher is a different leak though. All signs point to that. It is possible that the second cd could have had one of the vocal TWAT versions.

And given the fact Eddie says Better was not on the CD...

there hasn't been any link to that paricular Eddie comment. How reliable is this?

For what it's worth, the rip of Better instrumental lists it as Track 8.

When he says "the rest of the CD had 6 tracks," could still be IRS/IRS instrumental, or maybe one lacked an instrumental.

I also wouldn't rule out CITR as being on it. That glitch could have been picked up earlier, and the CD assembled later on.

1. IRS
2. IRS (instrumental)
3. TWAT (6:43)
4. TWAT (6:03)
5. TWAT (instrumental)
6. Catcher
7 Better
8. Better (instrumental)

This would mean that Trunk was either completely wrong or misunderstood. 4/4 vs 3/3 ummmm......Not enough evidence really.

[HoldenCaulfield]

I don't really understand why the shorter version of 'TWAT' would be on the Trunk cd. Just doesn't make sense to have the full 'TWAT', the shorter 'TWAT', then the instrumental 'TWAT' (both versions?). Though 'Better' matches Trunks description of "a great rocker with tons of Buckethead shredding", I'm leaning towards the opinion that 'Better' was NOT on that particular cd. We know that 'CITR' came from a different source, why couldn't 'Better'?

[Voodoochild]

We don't know that CITR came from a different source. If I would leak those tracks, I would try to hide any evidence that links them to just one source. I mean, CITR could be made to sound like its not from the same source. I mean, am I the only one who think it's ridiculous to have a tape recording these days (even in 1999)? With just a soundforge/adobe audition program, it's very easy to add hiss and distort it to sound like an old tape.

BTW, I don't care if it's the Eddie Trunk/Mike Piazza cd or not. All I'm saying is that we can't be sure that all those demos came from different sources.

[pilferk]

True, the demo could have been assembled any time.

BUT still,? some of the parts (if not most of them), at least, are older than any of the other material we have...simply because, again, we know Mays parts predates Bucket's entry into? the band.

Which, for my money, means the material is older than the rest.

So? Do you really think May's work can't make it at the final version? Does that mean that CITR is older than IRS (as far as I know, it's Paul Tobias on the left channel and Buckethead's solo could be added later)?

No, I think May's work very likely will make it to the final version.  And yes, it means that CITR is probably older than IRS..at least most of the material making it up is.  When it was "assembled"?  Who knows.

You pointed out the sound was very different.  I was simply pointing out the probable time differences in when the material was written/recorded.

That's it.

[pilferk]

Friday? Yay, I wanna hear you scream!

Pilfilk
Trunk said "sounds like so I don't remember well cos I heard it ages ago" or something along those lines.
 when IRS leaked last year.
I donno why you are so desparately denying the trunks option?
I'm just saying I don't rule out it yet.

Because he has much more recently said, categorically, that Better was not there.  Thus, since he didn't categorize his response to me with "I'm not sure", or "I don't remember"....It's wasn't there.

Ask him yourself.....

[pilferk]

Trunk confirmed what he believes. Trying to claim it's confirmed is BS unless you have the CD. So please don't act as if you've got 100% proof.

You choose to believe Trunk, I choose not to trust the guy's memory from three years ago.

It is confirmed...by the guy who had the CD.  Again, did YOU hear it?  So how is your opinion on the subject even relevant?

Why is that so hard to understand?  It IS 100% proof. 

I choose to believe the eyewitness (earwitness?) who categorically denies it was on the CD.

I choose to believe the guy who has heard both the material on the CD and the leak.

I choose to believe the guy who has a reputation that he trades on and has no reason to lie.

I choose to believe the guy who has, in the past, categorized things when he doesn't remember by saying "I don't remember" but who, in this case, was absolutely categorical in his answer.

You choose to believe in a fantasy with no corroboration or proof.

Like I said: Believe what you want.

But, it was not there. Period.

[pilferk]

there hasn't been any link to that paricular Eddie comment. How reliable is this?

In a personal email to me on 2/17/06 which was forwarded on to jarmo and madison for verification.  jarmo, I'm sure, will verify this if asked.  I won't forward it along to anyone else because it has some personal info attached to it that I won't make public.  I created an actual thread on BOTH forums (htgth and mygnrforum) when I got the email, so they're still around here somewhere.

Trunk categorically says Better was not on the CD.

It wasn't on the CD.

Despite what anyone else wants to believe.

[Voodoochild]

So? Do you really think May's work can't make it at the final version? Does that mean that CITR is older than IRS (as far as I know, it's Paul Tobias on the left channel and Buckethead's solo could be added later)?

No, I think May's work very likely will make it to the final version.  And yes, it means that CITR is probably older than IRS..at least most of the material making it up is.  When it was "assembled"?  Who knows.

You pointed out the sound was very different.  I was simply pointing out the probable time differences in when the material was written/recorded.

That's it.

Hmmm.. what's the subject here? I *THINK* the thing is: what matter is when those demos were "assembled" or "produced" or whatever. Robin's guitar work, Tommy's bass lines and Brain/Freese drums in TWAT can be from 98/99 aswell, but we're not sure. Same in Better (altought I doubt) and IRS.

And why are we discussin this subject? It doesn't matter now when the songs were written or some tracks from the songs were recorded. Otherwise, you could complain about the final album, because I'm sure the guys recorded most of their tracks in between '99-02.

Anyways, the thing is: I believe that all the demos could be from the same era and could be recorded at the same time to the final source (the leaker).

That's it.

[pilferk]

[Hmmm.. what's the subject here? I *THINK* the thing is: what matter is when those demos were "assembled" or "produced" or whatever. Robin's guitar work, Tommy's bass lines and Brain/Freese drums in TWAT can be from 98/99 aswell, but we're not sure. Same in Better (altought I doubt) and IRS.

And why are we discussin this subject? It doesn't matter now when the songs were written or some tracks from the songs were recorded. Otherwise, you could complain about the final album, because I'm sure the guys recorded most of their tracks in between '99-02.

Anyways, the thing is: I believe that all the demos could be from the same era and could be recorded at the same time to the final source (the leaker).

That's it.

The whole, entire, complete reason behind my original post was to agree with you that the sounds were different, and point out that, by the looks of things, the time frame things were recorded were also different (as in, one possible reason the "sound" is different...or not).? That was it.? No hidden agenda, no comments on what was on the final album, no complaints about the material being recorded awhile back.? Nada.? I like the stuff as is (with the exception of the production issues we've all talked about like mix).

[WARose]

i hope that the rest of the instrumentals get leaked as well.....

keep them coming!!

[ARC]

I think the vocals have been EQ'd out of this track. I think it's the "Better" we have with the vocals removed using software.

Listen carefully and I swear you can still hear Axl's voice, very low volume.

[McDuff]

I think the vocals have been EQ'd out of this track. I think it's the "Better" we have with the vocals removed using software.

Listen carefully and I swear you can still hear Axl's voice, very low volume.

no,it's an instrumental version

[Neemo]

I think the vocals have been EQ'd out of this track. I think it's the "Better" we have with the vocals removed using software.

Listen carefully and I swear you can still hear Axl's voice, very low volume.

no,it's an instrumental version

yeah i don't hear shit either, and i had it cranked pretty loud in my earphones

[ARC]

I think the vocals have been EQ'd out of this track. I think it's the "Better" we have with the vocals removed using software.

Listen carefully and I swear you can still hear Axl's voice, very low volume.

no,it's an instrumental version

... between 2:05 and 2:12 I'm sure I can hear the "All that I wanted...."

Ah, who knows. Maybe I'm goin' crazy.