Artistic and complex songs? Axl evolved?

[ARC]

Simplicity is the key to everything that is great.

'Complex' music is for geeks with bad values and too much time on their hands.

[chinesedemocracy05]

If you think AFD was 100% original you'd be totally wrong too - its got a Stones, Aerosmith influence that is undeniable, yet for the time it rocked the music world b/c nobody else sounded like that at the time.

I don't know AFD sounds pretty damn original to me, sure they have influences, like every band. But I've never heard guitar playing like that before. Izzy and Slash's dual guitars on that album and the way they play is just brilliant. I don't even really have to mention that noone has ever sounded like Axl Rose.

[DeN]

and I don't see much glow in these songs, only small sparkles.

i suppose a lot of "old fans" will think the same, and a lot more will be disappointed with CD successor.

i'm happy with the new musical direction i can see a bit in Better, so i'm really confident about the quality of the album.

i'm pretty sure it will be musically complex and rich, with orchestrations, electro elements, etc.

[mikegiuliana]

most(not all) people still rolling around these boards are die hard axl fans only, they side with the whole axl was the only one who wanted to do some evolving in his music... Evolving and more complex or groundbreaking are just terms used to deffend axl still using the gnr name and why the guys had to leave... because sound effects keyboards layering of the voice are all signs of evolving..  it's more or less axl is our favorite singer so we tend to invent words to describe why he is so important today or relevant without the gnr that had huge success....  No doubt the songs rock, no doubt they all have potential (well most) but there is nothing groundbreaking or evolving.. Axl has played the pianos, did songs like coma before, did NR & estranged... There is no huge complexity either, people act like only axl is capable of this stuff..

[ppbebe]

I don't even really have to mention that noone has ever sounded like Axl Rose.

Robert Plant + a bit of janis Joplin  is pretty close to the AFD voice.

Simplicity is the key to everything that is great.

'Complex' music is for geeks with bad values and too much time on their hands.

I guess CD is not for you. 

[Siliconmessiah]

Not to be an asshole. But Mikeguiliana. You?re not too positive about the new gnr, right?   

[ElNonoPololo]

Simplicity is the key to everything that is great.

'Complex' music is for geeks with bad values and too much time on their hands.

The thread isn?t about the songs sucking because they?re not complex or ground-breaking, so there?s no need to be an apologist for simplicity in music. The point is that many are drooling over the revolution in terms of song structure and whatnot CD is going to unleash, and Axl going Zaireeka on us (as in the ultra-experimental Flaming Lip?s album Zaireeka ), when the songs really show nothing of that sort.

He stated pretty clearly in his original post that he LIKED the songs...

PS: Of course, CD may end up being all that and more, it?s just that what we?ve heard doesn?t point in that direction. However, it DOES point to a possible great, if not orgasmic, album .

[HungerForChaos]

it's just demos.

that's the dumbest excuse.
 we heard the concept, and the concept isn't anything much, especially if you know that they worked 10 years on it.

I always tought the album will be a UYI killer, but now, I'd be happy if the songs come close to pretty tied up.

That's a weak excuse also... Saying they worked on it for 10 years so it must be the best he or anyone has ever made. How long he's worked on it has nothing to do with anything.

[HungerForChaos]

that's the dumbest excuse.

it's not an excuse. we don't even know the date of recording of these demos.

if you can judge an album BEFORE listening to it, congratulations, personally, i can't.

oh, i almost forgot : can you please give me the numbers for the next loto, i want to be rich.

thx in advance.

this is not a game of fortune.
I have good reason to believe that it won't be all that great.
If Axl rewrote the demos 100 % since the recordings we got, OK, then I fucked up.
but I seriously doubt that's what he did, and I'm sure that what we have heared so far is at least 70% of what the songs would sound like.
November rain, or estranged at 50% sounded better than these songs sound now.

I think that you can tell a diamond even when it's uncut. it still has a certain glow!!!
and I don't see much glow in these songs, only small sparkles.

Really? Because I thought November Rain and Estranged sucked. Not that I'm saying they're bad songs, I just don't like them at all. That just goes to show that people have different tastes and if you don't like it, that doesn't mean lots of other people won't be blown away.

[younggunner]

Compared to CB most of the songs on CD are different and "evolving" from what the old band collectively did

The only type song I could see old gnr doing is The Blues, Irs, and TWAT

[mikegiuliana]

Not to be an asshole. But Mikeguiliana. You?re not too positive about the new gnr, right?? ?

I like them a lot. I am personally into the new gnr ,more for axl being he is the only one I knew for the band and one from the gnr I knew..

I only said those things because this is the ongoing battle, the other guys didn't want to evolve it's always the same story, they didn't want to do new types of music or whatever.. I simply said my feelings are the music is good there's no question it's just not so different hat only axl could have created the vibe or sound.. The only thing unique is the voice which makes axl who he is..

Yes yg, I agree about say citr-better plus the songs R good.. Say songs like riyad or oh my god, or silkworms, I rather they not even be around, different yes, good not really

[Skunk]

i think what we're hearing is exactly what we should expect. it's Axl Rose. he said there would be some rockers, some songs as beautiful as NR, a lot of the arrangements were like Queen, and its a complex record. all that seems obvious.

the music isn't groundbreaking and structurally complicated or anything - but i really didn't think many people said it would be. even here when people talk about it changing the music scene like appetite did, thats saying something else. the reason GNR had such an impact the first time around wasn't because they were something so unique - they were unique for the time and more importantly they were wildly succesful.

i also don't understand the criticisms about expecting better after 10 years. it's not like they spent 10 years working on the songs you've heard. when the song is written it's written. it might be re-recorded, but i don't think they've spent 10 years writing a song. it's also very possible that these 10 years have been spent working on 3 albums worth of material and maybe a lot of material being discarded - so yeah, 10 years and 13 million dollars - but that wasn't all spent on the handful of songs we have.

[younggunner]

also don't understand the criticisms about expecting better after 10 years. it's not like they spent 10 years working on the songs you've heard. when the song is written it's written. it might be re-recorded, but i don't think they've spent 10 years writing a song. it's also very possible that these 10 years have been spent working on 3 albums worth of material and maybe a lot of material being discarded - so yeah, 10 years and 13 million dollars - but that wasn't all spent on the handful of songs we have.

Bingo!

[mikegiuliana]

also don't understand the criticisms about expecting better after 10 years. it's not like they spent 10 years working on the songs you've heard. when the song is written it's written. it might be re-recorded, but i don't think they've spent 10 years writing a song. it's also very possible that these 10 years have been spent working on 3 albums worth of material and maybe a lot of material being discarded - so yeah, 10 years and 13 million dollars - but that wasn't all spent on the handful of songs we have.

Bingo!

well we all know they didn't spend "ten" years.. I don't know how many seperate recording occurred in regards to redoing parts.. We know they have loads of music, just about time to see it already

[estebanf]

I don't understand why some board members praise the new songs as 'very artistic' and 'complex'. To tell the truth they're quite simple songs, mostly based on 1 or 2 ideas (except Better which is the closest to the term 'complex'). So why are you kepp saying that these songs are complex and artistic? Just because Axl said this in interviews? GN'R had complex songs like NR, Coma, Locomotive, Estranged, hell even PC or Civil War is much more complex than this new Axl material.

BTW these old songs are not complex if a musician talks about them. Dream Theater is (used to be?) complex, some Led Zeppelin (or Buckethead) material was complex etc., but GN'R isn't complex and never was.

The other thing that disturbs me is the 'Axl's music evolved'. If it means that he changed it to fit the new trends, then I tend to agree. But if you think he invented something new, then it's high time to buy some CDs. Just because he is into industrial music and uses effects, loops etc it ain't make it 'experimental'. Maybe learning how the computer works was experimetnal for Axl, but not for the music.? TWAT is NIN meets GN'R, same for IRS which has some Led Zep vibe, too. CITR is a bad mixture of Dy'er Mak'er (sp?), Yesterdays, Since I don't have You, Just Another Sunday, Maroon 5 and the softer side of Bon Jovi. This song is cheesy as a song can be (not the lyrics, the song itself.). The Blues could have been an Elton John song. CD is something from an unknown an uneducated punk/grunge band. Riyadh and Better are Tool meets Nu-metal songs. And Madagascar sounds like Axl wrote something using the movie soundtrack cliches.

Don't get me wrong, some of the new songs are good (Better, IRS, TWAT, Madagascar, some parts of The Blues), but this isn't anything new, not complex, not artistic, not experimental. It's not earth-shattering or ground-breaking. Take it as it is: a collection of Axl's old and new influences, which will make a good album (hopefully), but these songs won't change the music.?

I don't think like you. I think you're wrong.
And for Gods sake these songs are goddamn demos, GOD-DAMN-DEMOS. ?Have you heard use your illusion demos? ?Have you heard then the final album? You cant compare 4 demos against 2 full albums.

TWAT is NIN meets GN'R, same for IRS which has some Led Zep vibe, too. CITR is a bad mixture of Dy'er Mak'er (sp?), Yesterdays, Since I don't have You, Just Another Sunday, Maroon 5 and the softer side of Bon Jovi. This song is cheesy as a song can be (not the lyrics, the song itself.). The Blues could have been an Elton John song. CD is something from an unknown an uneducated punk/grunge band. Riyadh and Better are Tool meets Nu-metal songs. And Madagascar sounds like Axl wrote something using the movie soundtrack cliches

crap, crap and more crap. I think you're only tring to entertain readers. this is complete crap man, these songs are Guns N' Roses. Do you imagine a cheap music critic saying ''Let It Be'' is ''blabla meets blabla, could have been a blablabla song''?

damn, english is not my mother language and I'm not able to express myself better. but all I want you to know is that I completly disagree with your point of view.

Why? I would like to know what's inside your cd player when you say that TWAT is a ''simple song based on 1 or 2 ideas''

Don't get me wrong, some of the new songs are good (Better, IRS, TWAT, Madagascar, some parts of The Blues), but this isn't anything new, not complex, not artistic, not experimental. It's not earth-shattering or ground-breaking. Take it as it is: a collection of Axl's old and new influences, which will make a good album (hopefully), but these songs won't change the music.

This is your opinion, it's not a motherfucking fact. Poor guy: ''not artistic''.... ?

[snow white]

Don't confuse complexity with artistic. Something doesn't need to be complex or new to be high-quality or artistic. And something doesn?t have to be ground breaking to be good. I think expectations for CD have exceeded whatever will be on the album because we have been waiting so long, and ppl have gone insane over this new stuff. It's nice, but it's not the best thing since sliced bread, it just feels like it at the moment because anything new is better than nothing at all.
So it's easy to get carried away with all the hype, when in reality a few leaks and festivals doesn?t necessarily mean shit.
I digress

Alight.. granted. BUT

I think the reason we are all here is because axl with his voice, lyrics, melody, and general take on the world capture something none of us have ever heard before.

I don't think axl is ground shakin in terms of new musical ideals. BUT what he incorporates, digests, and creates as his own is compelely original. His voice, melody, and lyrics are like nothing i've ever heard.

When all is said and done there is a reason why i'm at the HTDGTH website and not at elton john's, pink floyd's, or led zepplin's forums is because what i find in axl is a part of myself. a tortured and poetic soul who has experienced life's emotions, survived and shared his take on them.

I'm here because axl.. as werid as he has... captured me as a young child when i heard' welcome to the jungle'... and i've been with him ever since.... and I can't wait to hear what's in store.

I completely, 100% agree.

To 'change the face of music' one doesn't necessarily have to be new. With the right production and promotion GnR could be back on top again and rival the rap phenomenon that?s currently big. 

I think the thing that stands out most for me is the lyrical content. In all honesty I put Axl up there with the likes of Dylan. Yeah, yeah, it's completely different music and Axl isn't nearly as political or a 'spokesman' but in terms of poetics and use of words Axl has something going on, something fucking brilliant. That's what makes him special.

[SWINGTRADER]

Axl doesn't have to reinvent music   everything has pretty much been done in music .  All he has to do is bring back the melodic side of rock and  personality  that has been missing for yrs.  There aren't many rock gods  releasing albums  besides U2 . I am tired of having rock stars as neighbors. Rock stars should not be like you or me  they need to have a mythical  unapproachable aspect to them.   This is one of the reasons why rock is so boring .   Axl's new album will not be anything revolutionary  but it might make artist change the way they make music in the sense of bringing back the origins of rock .  If Axl can do that   he has done his job.   AFD was nothing original  but it was totally honest  and different than anyone was doing at the time  and that is what CD needs to be ,  different.

[ShotgunBlues1978]

I don't think they are going "to change music" BUT they might change the FACE of music today.  Music today has no soul, no emotion...no defining sound.
If you think AFD was 100% original you'd be totally wrong too - its got a Stones, Aerosmith influence that is undeniable, yet for the time it rocked the music world b/c nobody else sounded like that at the time.

Yeah, so far the songs we've heard have a classic rock, modern rock, industrial sound to them, yet I wouldn't define any of the demos as just ONE of those styles I just listed.

Yeah, hes not going to invent anything new, but when CD drops nothing else on the radio is going to sound like it.

But I think the overall message of your post was good - some fans on this board are way over reacting to these songs.  Anytime I hear how Better is the best GNR song ever, you just kind of have to laugh.  Its a decent tune, but lets not get carried away.

Thanks, you saved me some time by summing up my thoughts  exactly 

[oldgunsfan]

If you think AFD was 100% original you'd be totally wrong too - its got a Stones, Aerosmith influence that is undeniable, yet for the time it rocked the music world b/c nobody else sounded like that at the time.

I don't know AFD sounds pretty damn original to me, sure they have influences, like every band. But I've never heard guitar playing like that before. Izzy and Slash's dual guitars on that album and the way they play is just brilliant. I don't even really have to mention that noone has ever sounded like Axl Rose.

Well, i'd say Robert Plant sounded similar to Axl on Zeppelins first 5 albums

[oldgunsfan]

and the playing on any Dream Theater or Liquid Tension Experiment album is 10 times better than anything I've heard off of the leaks from Chi Dem.